Discussion Maladaptive Daydreaming and Limerence.

[Forever Sleep]

From a quick Google search:

'Limerence
This is the state of obsessing over whether someone you're interested in reciprocates your feelings. People who are experiencing limerence may idealize their object of affection, overlooking flaws or portraying them in a more positive light.

Maladaptive daydreaming
This is a dissociative disorder that involves becoming preoccupied with an imagined life. People who experience maladaptive daydreaming may create detailed and engaging stories that can take over their thoughts. They may feel entitled to their imagined lives, and may use daydreaming as a way to cope with stress, loneliness, anger, or sadness.'

Personally, I feel like maladaptive daydreaming feeds directly in to limerence. I wonder if you can even have limerence without maladaptive daydreaming. What do you think?

I used to find that I'd fall for someone. I'm ashamed to admit it but it would often be for their looks or voice or manner primarily. Then, I'd start obsessing about our life together! Crazy, I know... Thankfully, I'm unattractive enough and insecure enough to only admire them from afar. I never actually pursued any of my crushes to the same obsessive level.

If we even got as far as friendship, there would (inevitably) come a time when they did or said something that revealed a more unpleasent facet to their character. We all have them- obviously. But sometimes, it would actually be something kind of repellent- like a cruel streak. It would snap me out of it briefly but, within a matter of days, I'd be back to the fairytale version. I sort of realised that the version of them I had in my head was only loosely based on the real thing. The primary difference being that in my head, they loved me madly back! But, it still didn't seem to matter enough to stop it.

It took me over a decade to take the time to look up 'obsessive crush' and find out about limerence. Since then, I've been careful to be aware of a crush forming (unavoidable) and be strict when it comes to limiting my maladaptive (crazy arse fairytale) dreaming about them. Consequently, I haven't been swept away so entirely by a crush for maybe 10 years. So, I feel like in my case at least, being strict to limit or stamp out maladaptive daydreaming limits the amount of limerence I go through.

I've also found it's somewhat safe to put all these obsessive feelings on fictional characters or actors or whatever. People I'm never going to meet. That's been a safer outlet.

What are your experiences? If you feel like sharing. Has limerence been a thorn in your side? It has it's nice elements too but, were they enough to counteract the discomfort?

 

[NoPoint2Life]

I have never told a soul this. It's way too embarrassing.

I've never considered myself a daydreamer. But that definition of Maladaptive daydreaming is so scary to me because that has definitely been me in the past. Only I've done it with mostly celebrities, not real people.


When I was a kid since I was an only child, to make it feel like I had more people around me, I would insert myself into families of characters in books or tv. Occasionally I would make something totally up.

But as the Internet came along, you could find out more about a person. So I would obsess over an actor. I would imagine what life might be like with them. And as social media came along, it became even easier for me to do that because you could find out what was going on in their lives and it was easier to insert myself and make up stories.
I also put myself in certain situations within those daydreams. For some reason, I Have always been scared of my parents dying because I don't think I'm capable of dealing with the fallout and the life on my own. I would imagine a life where they were dead, but I was then inserting myself into celebrities lives as an orphan.

And I am talking about still doing this in my 30s. I can remember sitting at my desk at work and continuing with a story I was currently fixated on in my mind.

In the back of my mind, I always knew something was seriously wrong with me. If I told anyone I was doing that as I got older, they would think I am absolutely crazy. Who knows, maybe that was the start of my mental problems and they started much earlier than I ever realized.

I think as a kid it's partly explainable due to the only child thing. As I got older, I knew I was doing it because I felt my life was so boring in real life.

As I developed OCD as an adult, I gradually stopped. By the time my OCD was out of control I was not doing it at all and have not done it since. I guess because my life was so different and consumed by something. It was still boring, but I was constantly busy obsessing over cleaning.

Ironically, I first googled the definition of Limerence because I saw you mention it in a post.. I didn't think that definition was it for me. But I do agree that I don't see how you can't have maladaptive daydreaming if you do have limerance.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I have never told a soul this. It's way too embarrassing.

I've never considered myself a daydreamer. But that definition of Maladaptive daydreaming is so scary to me because that has definitely been me in the past. Only I've done it with mostly celebrities, not real people.


When I was a kid since I was an only child, to make it feel like I had more people around me, I would insert myself into families of characters in books or tv. Occasionally I would make something totally up.

But as the Internet came along, you could find out more about a person. So I would obsess over an actor. I would imagine what life might be like with them. And as social media came along, it became even easier for me to do that because you could find out what was going on in their lives and it was easier to insert myself and make up stories.
I also put myself in certain situations within those daydreams. For some reason, I Have always been scared of my parents dying because I don't think I'm capable of dealing with the fallout and the life on my own. I would imagine a life where they were dead, but I was then inserting myself into celebrities lives as an orphan.

And I am talking about still doing this in my 30s. I can remember sitting at my desk at work and continuing with a story I was currently fixated on in my mind.

In the back of my mind, I always knew something was seriously wrong with me. If I told anyone I was doing that as I got older, they would think I am absolutely crazy. Who knows, maybe that was the start of my mental problems and they started much earlier than I ever realized.

I think as a kid it's partly explainable due to the only child thing. As I got older, I knew I was doing it because I felt my life was so boring in real life.

As I developed OCD as an adult, I gradually stopped. By the time my OCD was out of control I was not doing it at all and have not done it since. I guess because my life was so different and consumed by something. It was still boring, but I was constantly busy obsessing over cleaning.

Ironically, I first googled the definition of Limerence because I saw you mention it in a post.. I didn't think that definition was it for me. But I do agree that I don't see how you can't have maladaptive daydreaming if you do have limerance.

It's hard to know just how common it is. I mentioned it to a friend recently because, they are obsessed with a series of books. I think they were kind of offended that I was calling it out as less than normal behaviour. Not directly at them, I meant it about me also.

I suspect it is in fact quite common really. Lots of people become fans of certain things. I think a lot of our lives are monotonous! Why wouldn't we want to escape?

I think it's like that scene in Harry Potter though- when he is looking into the mirror of Erised at his reflection with his (deceased) parents and, Dumbledore says: 'It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live.' I think I wasted a lot of years just stupidly obsessing about people who I wouldn't have a chance with.

Interesting that you mentioned the only child thing. I was too and I think we do use maladaptive daydreaming to entertain ourselves.

 

[NoPoint2Life]

All I can think since I've seen that post is omfg. There's a name for it. And since there's a name for it, it must mean other people do this also.

I can't imagine it's that common. But who knows? Probably not something most people would talk about.

It makes me think of the Legion of fans for different boy bands. The ones that know every single lyric and buy all the merchandise. Do they do it? I see these tweens that seem obsessed but exactly how obsessed are they?

Yeah, I wonder if it's more common for only children. But I never had a creative bone in my body- so I never made up any kind of imaginary friend the way a lot of kids do.

I always say I'm not wired right. (in no way do I mean anything offensive like I'm saying the same about you). But there isn't much I like to do, I never had any goals, never really any motivation to better my life. Even as a kid, I didn't even like to draw like most kids do. And I always felt it was because I wasn't creative. I can't say I feel like I wasted time because there wasn't much else I would have been doing.

Thanks for educating me on this!

 

[star.trip]

I really didn't know about these concepts. thank you for sharing them here.
I believe that limerence, may contribute to maladaptive daydreaming, but that doesn't mean that maladaptive daydreaming doesn't develop on its own.

The problem's the obsession. I think it isn't good, for example, if you drink a beer, nothing happens but if you keep abusing or obsessing you can end up bad. Excesses in this life are paid for (I have used the example of alcohol but I could use other examples).
We all want to be loved because it makes us feel good (in general). It's a very high self-esteem boost to know that someone you barely know feels something (friendship, love...), so if we obsess with this, nothing good can be expected.

With respect to maladative daydreaming, I have always wondered why it is there (this is my opinion). when you don't like reality or it hurts you, you invent something that makes you feel good or you worry about maintaining that imaginary invented reality. It is logical that every living being usually runs away from pain. Normally, nobody likes to feel pain. Therefore, you create or imagine that wonderful reality. It doesn't solve the problem but it gives you some peace of mind. If you become obsessed with them, you can miss the reality, which can be a problem.

So I think you can have maladative daydreaming, without having limerence.

 

[nattys5thtoenail]

What I'm going to say is this, if you feel like it's taking over your life then you should do something about it, but if it's actually bringing you happiness and you don't really see a need to recover, then don't. It's just a unique way of coping with the stress of life.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I really didn't know about these concepts. thank you for sharing them here.
I believe that limerence, may contribute to maladaptive daydreaming, but that doesn't mean that maladaptive daydreaming doesn't develop on its own.

The problem's the obsession. I think it isn't good, for example, if you drink a beer, nothing happens but if you keep abusing or obsessing you can end up bad. Excesses in this life are paid for (I have used the example of alcohol but I could use other examples).
We all want to be loved because it makes us feel good (in general). It's a very high self-esteem boost to know that someone you barely know feels something (friendship, love...), so if we obsess with this, nothing good can be expected.

With respect to maladative daydreaming, I have always wondered why it is there (this is my opinion). when you don't like reality or it hurts you, you invent something that makes you feel good or you worry about maintaining that imaginary invented reality. It is logical that every living being usually runs away from pain. Normally, nobody likes to feel pain. Therefore, you create or imagine that wonderful reality. It doesn't solve the problem but it gives you some peace of mind. If you become obsessed with them, you can miss the reality, which can be a problem.

So I think you can have maladative daydreaming, without having limerence.

Yes, I agree. Maladaptive dreaming doesn't have to be related to limerence. It can simply be imagining you are in other (presumably better) worlds for most of the day as a form of escapism.

I also agree that it only tends to become a problem when it becomes obsessive. Like- everyone must daydream now and again about a nicer life but I think it can overtake your life so that, you're almost no longer actually living in this world. The bittersweet part of it with both limerence and maladaptive dreaming is also when you realise you may never live in that world.

I've also wondered what happens if people actually get into a relationship with someone they are limerent for. What if the reality doesn't match the fantasy?

 

[Pluto]

 

[supergold#2]

Yes, I agree. Maladaptive dreaming doesn't have to be related to limerence. It can simply be imagining you are in other (presumably better) worlds for most of the day as a form of escapism.

I also agree that it only tends to become a problem when it becomes obsessive. Like- everyone must daydream now and again about a nicer life but I think it can overtake your life so that, you're almost no longer actually living in this world. The bittersweet part of it with both limerence and maladaptive dreaming is also when you realise you may never live in that world.

I've also wondered what happens if people actually get into a relationship with someone they are limerent for. What if the reality doesn't match the fantasy?

hii bpd here, and basically every person close to me usually ends up being the victim of my limerance (or "favorite person," if you will), and it ALWAYS ends spectacularly. if i can keep the person somewhat distant in my life or can remain manageable, but still hurts, but once i've allowed them to become my fp or started a relationship, it's such a problem. i'll check they're call, text, email, spocials, EVERY second of every day thinking they're ignoring me and slowly becoming so obsessive that it scares them, at which point i usually split and completely destroy everything. trying my best to work on it, but limerance is TOUGH

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Maladaptive daydreaming is why things like meditation or mindfulness will never work for me because if I'm left alone with my thoughts for too long maladaptive daydreaming is always the end result.

I also have a persistent theory which has been called maladaptive daydreaming by my peers. I've speculated that the reason I'm so alone is because my future unborn child or children have been working as time travelers from the shadows in order to keep me alone and miserable in order to ensure that they are never born. The reason I don't consider this to be maladaptive daydreaming is because if it's true I'm technically proud of my kids for being able to take their own nonexistence into their own hands and I'm sorry I will have been such a terrible parent that they felt the need to do all this in the first place.

 

[star.trip]

Yes, I agree. Maladaptive dreaming doesn't have to be related to limerence. It can simply be imagining you are in other (presumably better) worlds for most of the day as a form of escapism.

I also agree that it only tends to become a problem when it becomes obsessive. Like- everyone must daydream now and again about a nicer life but I think it can overtake your life so that, you're almost no longer actually living in this world. The bittersweet part of it with both limerence and maladaptive dreaming is also when you realise you may never live in that world.

I've also wondered what happens if people actually get into a relationship with someone they are limerent for. What if the reality doesn't match the fantasy?

If reality doesn't match fantasy. There may be a problem. Because that means you have raised hopes for something that may not be there on the other person's part. Sometimes wishes seem to become truths, and that's not always the case.

When you confuse desire with truth or rather with what you want to be true, conflict can arise. Because it may be that the person does not have that same feeling or has it but expresses it in a different way that isn't what you expected.
And this is where reason falls short, and emotional intelligence (which I lack) and feelings come into play.

Here what I'm asking myself is can feelings be reasoned or do feelings have to be dealt with in another way (with the heart, perhaps). I don't know. It is really complicated.

Anyway, this is my opinion. I'm not an expert. Sorry if I got off topic

 

[painfree]

I'm thinking you can have limerence without maladaptive but maybe I'm interpreting wrong. My daydreaming is repetitive of the same moment (basically) of someone I met once and will never see again. I'm not creating a life with the person but it's probably not healthy I keep daydreaming cause in the end it's sadness of reality there's no one there. I don't even know his full name bc he works in emergency services (I know, it's terrible). So the daydream is filling in for what I lack in life. All based on loneliness. I had no idea these things had names.

 

[cotton]

I guess I saw people for their good and bad. Saw their love and tried to work on us both to eliminate the shit and be better people. Limeramce is true but it's the honeymoon view, the married view is sorting your shit out and being good for you both. Maladaptive daydreaming feeds into goals, but you get rid of the stuff that's impractical, you go for what's as close to perfect as you can do.

But yeah, never really fantasised, I just looked up and down at what I got and thought yeah, that's it

 

[untothedepths]

i know im probably doing a lot of maladaptive daydreaming but i dont think your average person would last for long in my shoes. and yeah, to actually experience everything i do, you'll need my autistic brain and terrible childhood. enjoy.

ill do whatever the fuck i want and im not bothering others while doing so. i respect boundaries. ill keep being lost in my own world, and more so as shit continues to hit the fan.

 

[pilotviolin]

i think alot of limerence requires some kind of imagined idealized subject, hope of reciprocation or airy fairying away thinking about the subject and how they would fit into their life or vice versa, but i cant talk for everyone.... for me maladaptive daydreaming and limerance dance together like it was made to tango for eternity. i dont think i would develop limerance again or to the extent that i have in the past... though in the years (i basically spent most my childhood and teen yearrs in the clouds or net) i was obsessed i would almost have this imaginary friend version of the person, and id fantasize alot about living together etc, and spend alot of time remembering everything about them. i could list 20 random facts right now.

the last person i was limerent with, i set boundaries for myself that i would not bother searching for them online or follow around or anything. imo its good to think about the other person and how uncomfortable they may be when somebody they arent interested in has them on their mind so much. its really scary, i can say for myself. when i was younger though id look at their social medias which wasnt good but i admit was helpful for me to realise this person does not care for people like me at all and not just in an intimate sense but is generally someone i would disagree with on many levels.

people who were unavailable in some way were people that drew me in, and the more i reflect, the more i realise i dont know anything about them! they could have lied when i asked questions to protect themselves, and ultimately i only saw what they showed in the limited settings i knew them. we fill in alot of gaps in ourselves and them, and our "relationship" when it comes to limerance. do we even get a chance/the time and capacity to know ourselves and the people and things that we can actually get to know more when so occupied by limerence? its like vampirism in a sense for all parties. i dont think it means the other person isn't admirable though, the last person was really nice and outside of my own issues they are the only role model ive had and i respect their work and mindset. i look back fondly on times we spent together doing mundane things and i dont wish to see them again, i just wish life is kind to them.

in conclusion, i think daydreaming and imagination, ties into the longing for love and companionship, and it fills the voids and emptiness in both ourselves, the unknowns in other people, the spaces in our lives. there are often patterns in who we cling onto, and for me it was related to childhood issues. letting go means letting new things in, and freeing up brain space, im actually pretty grateful i dont obsess over someone every night. what helped a little bit funny enough was having my own imaginary friend, things played out pretty realistically when we had issues and now we are on ok terms we just give each other space. the brain is weird!!! i hope nobody takes this as meaning they are bad people for being limerent or having to resort to imagination to cope, what pushed me away from limerence was seeing the impact it has on people and myself, and wanting to be free from the mood swings and unfulfilled wishes it causes.

 

[Forever Sleep]

i think alot of limerence requires some kind of imagined idealized subject, hope of reciprocation or airy fairying away thinking about the subject and how they would fit into their life or vice versa, but i cant talk for everyone.... for me maladaptive daydreaming and limerance dance together like it was made to tango for eternity. i dont think i would develop limerance again or to the extent that i have in the past... though in the years (i basically spent most my childhood and teen yearrs in the clouds or net) i was obsessed i would almost have this imaginary friend version of the person, and id fantasize alot about living together etc, and spend alot of time remembering everything about them. i could list 20 random facts right now.

the last person i was limerent with, i set boundaries for myself that i would not bother searching for them online or follow around or anything. imo its good to think about the other person and how uncomfortable they may be when somebody they arent interested in has them on their mind so much. its really scary, i can say for myself. when i was younger though id look at their social medias which wasnt good but i admit was helpful for me to realise this person does not care for people like me at all and not just in an intimate sense but is generally someone i would disagree with on many levels.

people who were unavailable in some way were people that drew me in, and the more i reflect, the more i realise i dont know anything about them! they could have lied when i asked questions to protect themselves, and ultimately i only saw what they showed in the limited settings i knew them. we fill in alot of gaps in ourselves and them, and our "relationship" when it comes to limerance. do we even get a chance/the time and capacity to know ourselves and the people and things that we can actually get to know more when so occupied by limerence? its like vampirism in a sense for all parties. i dont think it means the other person isn't admirable though, the last person was really nice and outside of my own issues they are the only role model ive had and i respect their work and mindset. i look back fondly on times we spent together doing mundane things and i dont wish to see them again, i just wish life is kind to them.

in conclusion, i think daydreaming and imagination, ties into the longing for love and companionship, and it fills the voids and emptiness in both ourselves, the unknowns in other people, the spaces in our lives. there are often patterns in who we cling onto, and for me it was related to childhood issues. letting go means letting new things in, and freeing up brain space, im actually pretty grateful i dont obsess over someone every night. what helped a little bit funny enough was having my own imaginary friend, things played out pretty realistically when we had issues and now we are on ok terms we just give each other space. the brain is weird!!! i hope nobody takes this as meaning they are bad people for being limerent or having to resort to imagination to cope, what pushed me away from limerence was seeing the impact it has on people and myself, and wanting to be free from the mood swings and unfulfilled wishes it causes.

I agree with so much of what you said. Funnily enough, in some ways it was better if the person I had a crush on did things that weren't all that nice. Not to say they were bad people. We all have faults but yeah- those times kind of woke me up a little. It's harder when you adore them and most of what they do is seemingly worthy of adoration.

I think it's probably for the best that I am the way I am in other regards. I was so massively embarassed by how I felt. That's part of what made it so uncomfortable/ unpleasant for me. I thought they'd be repulsed by me liking them that way so, I tried hard not to show it or become too clingy or like a stalker! I initially used to follow one of them on social media but, it became too painful. Probably best that I was more shy really. Had I acted on how I felt, yeah, it wouldn't have been good! But yeah, mine carried a lot of shame with it too.

I don't think we should exactly blame ourselves either. Limerence obviously develops for a reason. Often, I think it is simply a desperate desire to experience love. I think it can often stem from a lack of stability in childhood. But yes- obviously, we need to manage it if it leads us to encroaching on other people's boundaries.

It's one of those weird bittersweet things in life though I think. Like addiction really. It can feel so nice in the moment but, you know it's just going to cause pain in the long run. Plus, the more you feed it, the more intense it gets. I'm relieved that it isn't so intense for me now. It still flares up now and again but, I'm better at keeping a lid on it now! Like you, it helped to shift it on to imaginary characters. Fictional characters.

 

[pilotviolin]

I agree with so much of what you said. Funnily enough, in some ways it was better if the person I had a crush on did things that weren't all that nice. Not to say they were bad people. We all have faults but yeah- those times kind of woke me up a little. It's harder when you adore them and most of what they do is seemingly worthy of adoration.

I think it's probably for the best that I am the way I am in other regards. I was so massively embarassed by how I felt. That's part of what made it so uncomfortable/ unpleasant for me. I thought they'd be repulsed by me liking them that way so, I tried hard not to show it or become too clingy or like a stalker! I initially used to follow one of them on social media but, it became too painful. Probably best that I was more shy really. Had I acted on how I felt, yeah, it wouldn't have been good! But yeah, mine carried a lot of shame with it too.

I don't think we should exactly blame ourselves either. Limerence obviously develops for a reason. Often, I think it is simply a desperate desire to experience love. I think it can often stem from a lack of stability in childhood. But yes- obviously, we need to manage it if it leads us to encroaching on other people's boundaries.

It's one of those weird bittersweet things in life though I think. Like addiction really. It can feel so nice in the moment but, you know it's just going to cause pain in the long run. Plus, the more you feed it, the more intense it gets. I'm relieved that it isn't so intense for me now. It still flares up now and again but, I'm better at keeping a lid on it now! Like you, it helped to shift it on to imaginary characters. Fictional characters.

aloooot of really hard feelings can come up underneath limerence, i also get feeling embarrassed too ahh, but with feelings themselves i dont think theres much to be embarrassed of long term cause damn when im unprepared and it rains suddenly, im cold and i wish i wasnt cold but its not what i decided, we can bring coats or whatever may help us but we dont control the weather. have you heard of the youtube channel "the crappy childhood fairy"? she talks alot about childhood trauma, shame, emotional regulation, inner child stuff, self sabotage, as well as limerence, i haven't watched her in awhile but she dissected the topic and i like the other guys youtube channel whom she does various scenario roleplays with to further delve into dynamics internal and external.

i agree that limerence isnt just something people choose, self blame can perpetuate shame, alot of times that need for connection, attention, or comfort is very real. we deserve to give ourselves chances for real care and compassion, not just a fantasy i guess not just in love but other people like friends and family (i dont mean like take in a hostage sense haha but i mean it would mean alot for everyone if people were lonely and tried to understand eachother). easier said than done though and very general statement but personally i do believe everyone deserve chances to not feel totally alone in life. i also "mitigate" parts of myself to fictional characters or in more general terms i also love getting into fictional peoples stories and personalities it kind of scratches the itch.

addiction is a good metaphor, im happy to hear you have some relief, i can imagine and partly understand it is hard work to be dealing with it as a consistent in life!

 

[Forever Sleep]

aloooot of really hard feelings can come up underneath limerence, i also get feeling embarrassed too ahh, but with feelings themselves i dont think theres much to be embarrassed of long term cause damn when im unprepared and it rains suddenly, im cold and i wish i wasnt cold but its not what i decided, we can bring coats or whatever may help us but we dont control the weather. have you heard of the youtube channel "the crappy childhood fairy"? she talks alot about childhood trauma, shame, emotional regulation, inner child stuff, self sabotage, as well as limerence, i haven't watched her in awhile but she dissected the topic and i like the other guys youtube channel whom she does various scenario roleplays with to further delve into dynamics internal and external.

i agree that limerence isnt just something people choose, self blame can perpetuate shame, alot of times that need for connection, attention, or comfort is very real. we deserve to give ourselves chances for real care and compassion, not just a fantasy i guess not just in love but other people like friends and family (i dont mean like take in a hostage sense haha but i mean it would mean alot for everyone if people were lonely and tried to understand eachother). easier said than done though and very general statement but personally i do believe everyone deserve chances to not feel totally alone in life. i also "mitigate" parts of myself to fictional characters or in more general terms i also love getting into fictional peoples stories and personalities it kind of scratches the itch.

addiction is a good metaphor, im happy to hear you have some relief, i can imagine and partly understand it is hard work to be dealing with it as a consistent in life!

Yes, 'The Crappy Childhood Fairy' is great- I agree. I think she may have been one of the first channels I watched with regards to limerence. It's helped in life for me to have these definitions somehow. Not that they're official of course but, to realise they were a recognised 'thing' made me feel less weird!

Ha ha- a hostage situation. That made me laugh. That's it though really- I'm glad I didn't have the confidence to act on how extreme/ crazy I felt! Not that it would have been that extreme but really- just revealing how I felt absolutely would have resulted in rejection and heartbreak I'm sure.

 

[lilah]

i don't think i have limenrance but maladaptative daydreaming took decades out of my life. it is a serious dissociative condition that nobody seems to aknowledge.