Live feed from Hong Kong: Hong Kong pro-democracy protesters face off with riot police

[Hennessy]

Peoples' freedom are under threat in Hong Kong. China wants to turn Hong Kong into a dictatorship but the people are fightig back.

My message to the people of Hong Kong: Keep up the fight! The whole world supports you!

 

[Joannf]

Peoples' freedom are under threat in Hong Kong. China wants to turn Hong Kong into a dictatorship but the people are fightig back.

My message to the people of Hong Kong: Keep up the fight! The whole world supports you!

Some say it's a CIA op, the US need to show muscles against someone whom they can profile as "evil."
Why would China want to turn HK into a "dictatorship" ? It serves them well.
What democracy, the US one with the two parties, or the EU one with the unelected bureaucracy ?
Will we have a complete "politics" megathread here ?
Just asking...

 

[Hennessy]

Some say it's a CIA op, the US need to show muscles against someone whom they can profile as "evil."
Why would China want to turn HK into a "dictatorship" ? It serves them well.
What democracy, the US one with the two parties, or the EU one with the unelected bureaucracy ?
Will we have a complete "politics" megathread here ?
Just asking...

This thread is meant as a token of solidarity with the people of Hong Kong, who are now fighting for the same democratic rights and freedoms that I take for granted every day (I'm from Europe).

 

[Joannf]

This thread is meant as a token of solidarity with the people of Hong Kong, who are now fighting for the same democratic rights and freedoms that I take for granted every day (I'm from Europe).

Before I show solidarity to political movements that are being supported by big news corporations (and certain state actors), I like to listen to the other side.
Always ask 'cui bono.' They staged something like this in Ukraine a few years ago, they did it in Syria, it's what they do all the time.
So maybe they're doing it again. I'm from Europe, too.

Hong Kong police seize explosives at storehouse used by pro-independence group

One person was arrested after Hong Kong police discovered a stash of explosives and weapons, stored along with banners and clothes bearing the emblem of the Hong Kong National Front (HKNF) party, in a raid on Friday night.

www.rt.com

 

[Hennessy]

So what you're saying is really, "Trust Western Main Stream media, who always tell the truth, because look at me - I trust them, too - and I'm right as any NPC."
And, "don't trust the news sources who the MSM say are false news sources, because if our MSM are always right, those liars must obviously be wrong."
Who do you think own Western Main Stream media ? They are a cartel who agree on what we should know, and some of us understand what they stand for.
Are you saying that I am a Russian agent, @Hennessy ?
What the fuck are you, then ?

I just wanted to show my support for the people og Hong Kong, I'm not here to champion any politics or any country. You seem very angry and aggressive. I will therefore stop corresponding with you. I'm not here to argue. I wish you a good day.

 

[Joannf]

I just wanted to show my support for the people og Hong Kong, I'm not here to champion any politics or any country. You seem very angry and aggressive. I will therefore stop corresponding with you. I'm not here to argue. I wish you a good day.

Okay - I may have been too paranoid, so I apologize if you're honestly thinking this is just about democracy.
But you DID write, "and now we know what you stand for." If that was not an aggressive insinuation, I don't know what is.
If there's something that I hate, it's half-informed people assuming that they know everything.

Stop being so righteous and try to be a bit more rational and objective. It will do you good in the long run ;)
I'm also not necessary against politics on the forum, but you should first ask the admins.
It does seem to get out of hand recently. Not my decision.

 

[LaBrava]

Before I show solidarity to political movements that are being supported by big news corporations (and certain state actors), I like to listen to the other side.
Always ask 'cui bono.' They staged something like this in Ukraine a few years ago, they did it in Syria, it's what they do all the time.
So maybe they're doing it again. I'm from Europe, too.

Hong Kong police seize explosives at storehouse used by pro-independence group

One person was arrested after Hong Kong police discovered a stash of explosives and weapons, stored along with banners and clothes bearing the emblem of the Hong Kong National Front (HKNF) party, in a raid on Friday night.

www.rt.com

I agree about Ukraine and Syria, but I think the protests in HK are really coming from the grass roots. China is treating HK as a colony in the same way the US does with various countries. Neither of them are the good guys in my eyes - but that's governments, ordinary US and Chinese people are not to blame for the folly of their ruling elites.

 

[Alchemist]

I know this is near impossible in political discussions, but please try to dial it down with the personal attacks. You're free to argue your points, but do so in a respectful manner. Otherwise I will be force to lock the thread.

 

[Joannf]

I agree about Ukraine and Syria, but I think the protests in HK are really coming from the grass roots. China is treating HK as a colony in the same way the US does with various countries. Neither of them are the good guys in my eyes - but that's governments, ordinary US and Chinese people are not to blame for the folly of their ruling elites.

I'm not sure either - I would just love if everybody would try to look behind the scenes...
There's no doubt that many of the protesters are serious, the question is rather who organized the situation.
I found this one in a post on social, but I'm unsure where the info came from - so we have to take it as is, copy and paste :

The #HongKong riots are being organized by Joshua Wong, who has been a professional protester since he was 13 years old. He was a lead organizer of the Western-backed Umbrella riots of 2014. He is most likely some kind of CIA shill. The Chinese aren't outright stating that these people are CIA shills. At least not in English. But there is no other way that Chinese people behave like Planet of the Apes, Baltimore. What happens is that you get these CIA shill leaders, then you get followers that have learned good English and have gotten into some CIA propaganda against #China online. None of it makes any sense outside of this entire thing being a setup by the West to instigate young people into going apeshit. Because: What are their demands? What do they actually want? During the Umbrella riots, they said they wanted "democratic elections" – but why? Because : Multiculturalism, Feminism, Homosexualism, Globalism (immigration, wars, free trade) are the agenda of the American Imperial Deep State (AIDS).

Yeah, well. Pretty biased but not so unlikely. Democracy seems to be an obvious choice, but our democracies are no longer working. What about Brexit ? People can vote, but nothing happens. The Gilets Jaunes in France are ignored or beaten. I mean - be serious, it's not what it used to be.
Unfortunately I don't know anyone in HK, but the first people I distrust are always our own politicos, in that I beg to differ from most. That's Wang on the image ;) No, Wong. Bright chap !

 

[Hennessy]

It looks like the live feed has now ended. Something else is showing.
My best wishes to the people of Hong Kong.

 

[Hennessy]

I agree about Ukraine and Syria, but I think the protests in HK are really coming from the grass roots. China is treating HK as a colony in the same way the US does with various countries. Neither of them are the good guys in my eyes - but that's governments, ordinary US and Chinese people are not to blame for the folly of their ruling elites.

I think the Hong Kong-protests is a grass roots movement too. The people there are worried about their future. I feel a lot of sympathy for them. I try to imagine living in a free democratic society and suddenly one day all my rights are taken away. Scary. Must be so surreal.

 

[Joannf]

I think the Hong Kong-protests is a grass roots movement too. The people there are worried about their future. I feel a lot of sympathy for them. I try to imagine living in a free democratic society and suddenly one day all my rights are taken away. Scary. Must be so surreal.

You may be correct about the Hong Kong people or at least part of them.
I personally find surreal what is happening to the classic democracies in the US and Europe at this time. It's definitely scary.
They are forbidding certain political attitudes, they are even talking about prohibiting the keeping of pets (in the name of stopping Climate Change), in Germany.
China is just the world's forerunner in social engineering. They already have Socialism, we're getting it now... democracy is obviously not going to change that.

 

[Hennessy]

Here is another live feed from Hong Kong.




Scary situation… Are those people with white helmets counter-demonstrators? They are all carrying canes and baseball bats.

 

[Joannf]

We'll see how HK develops. I'm posting a general article about China because people in the West don't have enough information.
It's a power play thing, and the biggest power player is "The West."
So it would be natural the Chinese are largely seen as oppressive dog-torturers who harvest the organs of Muslims they keep in concentration camps, while they manufacture iphones in slave-labor and try to keep the Hongkongese from having a vote. That's all very stupid, and western people enjoy being stupid way more than life itself, just have a look at this forum ;)
Read the article.
unz.com/avltchek/reason-why-west-is-determined-to-ignore-chinas-success/

It used to be comical, but suddenly it is not, anymore. In the past, blind hatred towards China could had been attributed to ignorance, or at least to indoctrination by the Western propaganda and mass media outlets.
But now? China's tremendous leap forward, its excellent, humane social policies and determined people-oriented scientific research, as well as its march towards a so-called "ecological civilization" are well-documented, to the point that if anyone really wants to know, he or she has plenty of opportunities to learn the truth.
But it appears that very few want to learn. At least very few in the West.
China is seen negatively in almost all Western countries and their satellites. While surveys in places like Africa, where China intensively interacts with the people, helping them to break the chains of dependency on their neo-colonialist masters from Europe and North America, clearly indicate that it is admired and liked.
Last year (2018), a survey by the influential Pew Research Center ("Five Charts on Global Views of China") established that China is viewed mostly positively in non-Western countries: 67% in Kenya where China is involved in substantial infrastructural and social projects, 61% in the most populous African nation – Nigeria, 70% in the Arab country of Tunisia, 53% in the Philippines, despite the fact that there, the West has been fueling a dispute over the islands in the South China Sea, and 65% in Russia, which is now the closest Chinese ally.
In the U.K., 49% of citizens see China positively, 48% in Australia, but only 39% in Germany and 38% in the United States.
But what is truly shocking, is the attitude of the West towards the leadership of China's President – Xi Jinping – a determined thinker who is leading China towards true socialism with Chinese characteristics; almost eliminating extreme poverty (by the year 2020, there should be no pockets of misery left, anywhere on the territory of the PRC), and who is putting culture, a high quality of life, ecology and the general wellbeing of the Chinese people above economic indicators.
Conservative, anti-Communist Poland leads the pack: only 9% Poles "have confidence" in the leadership of President Xi. 11% of Greeks, 14% of Italians and 15% of Spaniards. That says something about Europe, as even in Canada, the number is 42%, and in the United States – 39%.
Is it truly just ignorance?
When interviewed by various Chinese media outlets, I am often asked the same question: "Why are we constantly criticized in the West, while we try to play by the rules, and doing our best to improve the planet?"
The answer is obvious: "Precisely for that reason."
...

 

[Divine Trinity]

You may be correct about the Hong Kong people or at least part of them.
I personally find surreal what is happening to the classic democracies in the US and Europe at this time. It's definitely scary.
They are forbidding certain political attitudes, they are even talking about prohibiting the keeping of pets (in the name of stopping Climate Change), in Germany.
China is just the world's forerunner in social engineering. They already have Socialism, we're getting it now... democracy is obviously not going to change that.

The US is a totalitarian state, most of the European nations can be described as aristocratic neoliberal beaucracies (forgive the spelling, typing fast). Both are capitalist, the US using a more extremist model, but social democracy is welfare capitalism by any other name.

The chinese government is by no means socialist, they're just being upfront in using a command economy to build infrastructure versus lying about "free markets" and giving away developed land to the privaye sector. There's many things the chinese public ought to protest, I doubt it's CIA operated, for now at least.

 

[Joannf]

The US is a totalitarian state, most of the European nations can be described as aristocratic neoliberal beaucracies (forgive the spelling, typing fast). Both are capitalist, the US using a more extremist model, but social democracy is welfare capitalism by any other name.

The chinese government is by no means socialist, they're just being upfront in using a command economy to build infrastructure versus lying about "free markets" and giving away developed land to the privaye sector. There's many things the chinese public ought to protest, I doubt it's CIA operated, for now at least.

You should never write "the US are totalitarian," because people can vote, and they think that does it.
They associate totalitarian with concentration camps and not being allowed to leave the country - and so they don't understand what you mean. Just saying ;)
China is still in forward mode so I tend to give them the benefit of my doubt while the US are winding it all down, so they get the bad side of my doubt.
When western media propagate something, its usually very fishy.

 

[Divine Trinity]

You should never write "the US are totalitarian," because people can vote, and they think that does it.
They associate totalitarian with concentration camps and not being allowed to leave the country - and so they don't understand what you mean. Just saying ;)
China is still in forward mode so I tend to give them the benefit of my doubt while the US are winding it all down, so they get the bad side of my doubt.
When western media propagate something, its usually very fishy.

China has had a large amount of economic growth, and has lifted more people out of poverty on one generation than there are people in the US or EU. That growth doesn't legitimize the state's crimes and imperialist policies, even if slightly less brutish than the US empire.

Certain US citizens are permitted to vote in rigged election with a determined winner, Trump lost the popular vote, Bush jr. was effectively selected by the US Supreme Court. The outcome of an US election can be predicted by which candidate has the most campaign spending with reliable accuracy. Oh, and over half the population can't or refuse to vote.

Nevermind the fact that democracy means more than simply selecting your preferred master for 2-4 years then going home to get back to work in 30 minutes.

You should never write "the US are totalitarian," because people can vote, and they think that does it.
They associate totalitarian with concentration camps and not being allowed to leave the country - and so they don't understand what you mean. Just saying ;)
China is still in forward mode so I tend to give them the benefit of my doubt while the US are winding it all down, so they get the bad side of my doubt.
When western media propagate something, its usually very fishy.

The US has had several concentration camps each century since inception, including now. Less than 100 years ago japanese-americans were put into camps and barred entry, leave, or communicating out of the country. Should I mention the history of black americans? Didn't look very democratic to me.

You should never write "the US are totalitarian," because people can vote, and they think that does it.
They associate totalitarian with concentration camps and not being allowed to leave the country - and so they don't understand what you mean. Just saying ;)

Even by those rather rigid and ignorant metrics, it's still totalitarian:

 

[Joannf]

China has had a large amount of economic growth, and has lifted more people out of poverty on one generation than there are people in the US or EU. That growth doesn't legitimize the state's crimes and imperialist policies, even if slightly less brutish than the US empire.

Certain US citizens are permitted to vote in rigged election with a determined winner, Trump lost the popular vote, Bush jr. was effectively selected by the US Supreme Court. The outcome of an US election can be predicted by which candidate has the most campaign spending with reliable accuracy. Oh, and over half the population can't or refuse to vote.

Nevermind the fact that democracy means more than simply selecting your preferred master for 2-4 years then going home to get back to work in 30 minutes.

The US has had several concentration camps each century since inception, including now. Less than 100 years ago japanese-americans were put into camps and barred entry, leave, or communicating out of the country. Should I mention the history of black americans? Didn't look very democratic to me.


Even by those rather rigid and ignorant metrics, it's still totalitarian:

What I meant was that if you write "the US are totalitarian", then most people will instinctively assume that you are a liar even if you are not. That's why I would not use hte word, for tactical reasons.

 

[Final Escape]

I saw a video about this the other day on black pigeon speaks. It's so scary that people around the world are still having to fight for their basic right to life and freedom from ruling elites who want to control our lives.

 

[Joannf]

I saw a video about this the other day on black pigeon speaks. It's so scary that people around the world are still having to fight for their basic right to life and freedom from ruling elites who want to control our lives.

I like the Hato a lot, but he has a dog in that fight. Business interests.
You can take almost all he says for granted except the stuff about China and the London Tube ;)
Also, we may ourselves have to fight for our 'rights' very soon...

 

[Final Escape]

I like the Hato a lot, but he has a dog in that fight. Business interests.
You can take almost all he says for granted except the stuff about China and the London Tube ;)
Also, we may ourselves have to fight for our 'rights' very soon...

Well yea this is going on in white countries or formerly majority white countries. Forced diversity which is code for replacing the white population in our own countries. Apparently whites are the impediment to one world government. My home country Hungary is awake to this and keeps foreign immigrants out to keep our culture and homogeneity. I'm all for diversity but I think Japan for Japanese, Germany for Germans, etc. diversity doesn't mean trying to force people to live with cultures not compatible with your own.

 

[Joannf]

Well yea this is going on in white countries or formerly majority white countries. Forced diversity which is code for replacing the white population in our own countries. Apparently whites are the impediment to one world government. My home country Hungary is awake to this and keeps foreign immigrants out to keep our culture and homogeneity. I'm all for diversity but I think Japan for Japanese, Germany for Germans, etc. diversity doesn't mean trying to force people to live with cultures not compatible with your own.

I'm still trying to make up my mind about what they are thinking they're doing there... I mean, white people are not really against Globalism, they invented it and most seem to be eager followers of the left - so why replace them ? They obey, don't they ? They have no kids - they don't overpopulate. They're not messy...
So why need they be replaced, cui bono ? Just hate from a vengeful tribe ? That's all too simple, so it must be different reasons, and different interests, a compromise. But it's happening, and I am sure that Europe in a 100 years will be a mess populated by a rabble - hopefully with some exceptions.
You know that Europeans aren't geniuses, average IQ ist just below 100 - but that of the ones flooding in is 20 points below, and I think this is the main reason for the migration gambit.They want it lower, they want Europe economically defanged and deindustrialized. There is a wing of Green Leftists who really believe this will save the word ecologically , and that all people are the same, these also love the idea of deindustrialization and they are the useful idiots... as to China, well somebody has to shine the light. They have the best potential, and the western sort of individual freedom has not led us into a brilliant future, but into degeneration.
So honestly, I don't really care about that. It's NOT important.Survival is, and making sure that humanity doesn't slide back into an Islamic Iron Age.

 

[Final Escape]

I'm still trying to make up my mind about what they are thinking they're doing there... I mean, white people are not really against Globalism, they invented it and most seem to be eager followers of the left - so why replace them ? They obey, don't they ? They have no kids - they don't overpopulate. They're not messy...
So why need they be replaced, cui bono ? Just hate from a vengeful tribe ? That's all too simple, so it must be different reasons, and different interests, a compromise. But it's happening, and I am sure that Europe in a 100 years will be a mess populated by a rabble - hopefully with some exceptions.
You know that Europeans aren't geniuses, average IQ ist just below 100 - but that of the ones flooding in is 20 points below, and I think this is the main reason for the migration gambit.They want it lower, they want Europe economically defanged and deindustrialized. There is a wing of Green Leftists who really believe this will save the word ecologically , and that all people are the same, these also love the idea of deindustrialization and they are the useful idiots... as to China, well somebody has to shine the light. They have the best potential, and the western sort of individual freedom has not led us into a brilliant future, but into degeneration.
So honestly, I don't really care about that. It's NOT important.Survival is, and making sure that humanity doesn't slide back into an Islamic Iron Age.

90% of all modern inventions have been made by Europeans. I'm not sure why this isn't brought up lol! Im sure many of the intelligent Europeans have been wiped out due to welfare states, wars, abortion. Welfare states are dysgenic because it alters how women choose the men. Normally women would choose the most responsible, moral, hard working, intelligent men to have kids with. Welfare states relax this selection to choose partners well. Because genius level iq's are rare u do need people to have enough kids to increase the odds that more of these people are likely to be born.

 

[Divine Trinity]

What I meant was that if you write "the US are totalitarian", then most people will instinctively assume that you are a liar even if you are not. That's why I would not use hte word, for tactical reasons.

Don't self-censor to compensate for other people's ignorance, or as they used to say "dumb it down".