joshe

joshe

Wanderer
Jun 1, 2019
112
If you have ever reached out to anyone about your pain and suffering, likely you have heard this from at least one person.

How do you react?


For me, I can understand that 'reward takes effort' and such other things but I think the main difference is the scale of the pain-gain ratio. Once it tips into a situation where everyday things become an immense struggle and you are beaten down one time too many, how can anyone say you need to push harder when they don't know what you are going through.
 
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Oblivion Lover

Oblivion Lover

No life, no suffering
May 30, 2019
360
I think people saying life is supposed to be hard is bullshit. It would only be fair for it to be hard if I consented to being brought to this world. Why should I have to work hard for a life I never asked for and I'm not interested at? Also, people saying things such as "you reap what you sow" or similar is also very stupid. There's no such thing as Karma, as unfortunate as it seems. Many people do their best to be nice and put incredible effort in life and are still miserable, and there are evil and disgusting spoiled people that don't even need to work to be rich and happy. It's all a bunch of lies that are supposed to make us keep going and accept that life sucks. Anyone with a rational mind can see through these empty lies.
 
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J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
Never experienced that really. If it were to happen probably something along the lines of this:

 
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joshe

joshe

Wanderer
Jun 1, 2019
112
I think people saying life is supposed to be hard is bullshit. It would only be fair for it to be hard if I consented to being brought to this world. Why should I have to work hard for a life I never asked for and I'm not interested at? Also, people saying things such as "you reap what you sow" or similar is also very stupid. There's no such thing as Karma, as unfortunate as it seems. Many people do their best to be nice and put incredible effort in life and are still miserable, and there are evil and disgusting spoiled people that don't even need to work to be rich and happy. It's all a bunch of lies that are supposed to make us keep going and accept that life sucks. Anyone with a rational mind can see through these empty lies.

I really agree with you, why does it feel like this knowledge is covered up?

I mean, it took my own research and my own pain to come to these same conclusions, through reading and understanding I began to let go of the idea that somehow I had full control and responsibility for how my life was going, which eased the burden a bit.

But it seems this is not even a topic of discussion in the world, possibly the biggest taboo of all. So that makes me doubt myself and my logic, but again as you said, it seems like the most rational point of view I have found, so do i trust myself in this belief when no one else around me sees it, or buy into their idea of mental illness and confusion
 
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bigj75

bigj75

“From Knowledge springs power."
Sep 1, 2018
2,540
that only applies to certain things. you have to be in a position for hard work to pay off.

that's like telling a slave life is supposed to be hard...you get what you put in. nomatter how hard that slave works his life won't get better.

that's the same as us on this forum. we tried everything. no matter how much work we put in our depression won't go away. we just aren't in the position for it to work anymore. some of us never even get to get into a position for it to work.
 
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T

Thorn

Wrecked
Jun 8, 2019
284
Life is supposed to be.... life?
When was the last time someone got back even a fraction of what they invested? Yes, there are people who put in a lot of hot air, and take everything, given or not.
But as we talk about normal people, we only get scammed, time and time again. What, when they tax food heavier than gambling... wait, what should I put in, and where?
You put an axe in a log, and don't get even that back, because the angle was wrong, you dulled the blade, and it will be deducted from your paycheck.
Metaphorically, every angle you take in life to do your best, is the wrong one. This is the "supposed to be hard" part, and it is directly tied to your non-rewards you get in life. The most exclusive and expensive kind, they say.
In short, everything you put in in your life, is returned to you as a responsibility.
 
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M

Mljonzy

Student
Aug 21, 2018
145
It's horse shit. It's funny because if they were in our situation we all know their enthusiasm for life would no longer exist seriously the ignorance and narcissism is disgusting. People like that don't know what pain is they think they are something and there not.
 
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Misanthrope

Misanthrope

Mage
Oct 23, 2018
557
If someone told me life is meant to be hard in a dismissive way when I had opened up to them about my own pain rendered myself vulnerable that way. I would simply ask meant by what and who and then also why? Are some people meant to be raped by their uncle? Are some people meant to starve to death because of accident of geography of birth? Should we not care or mitigate that pain because life is simply hard? How does that justify dismissal of my own pain in this moment? If your girlfriend was stabbed to death in front of you and my dismissive response was, 'Well life is hard, people die all the time and horrible things happen because life is a harsh bastard. Could be worse at least she went quick." You would rightly think me an insensitive jerk. That is pretty much what you are doing right now. It also addresses nothing, yes life is hard. So what, how does that help me with my pain? That awareness sure as fuck does not take it away. Does nothing to fix it either. If you want to trivialize it further with, 'Well at least you are not a starving African.' Are you saying I need to be starving African before you will acknowledge my pain is meaningful enough to help me with it? Why am I even talking to you?

I also wrote this elsewhere, seems relevant enough to the topic. But I am a bitter sod ranting here for cathartic reasons, so I apologise.

There are many phrases that piss me off I call them fortune cookie phrases because that is where they belong in how disposable, empty, forgettable and far removed from reality they are. I guess it depends on the context of how it is said. A lot of this stuff though is just dismissive. Up there with being told to appreciate a rainbow. Like that will fix 18 years of chronic abuse or the assault of your own mind ripping you apart over everything you have failed at...
'Life is what you make it.'
This would only be true if we lived in a vacuum where all efforts were not impeded by external forces. But they are, there is also the subtle insinuation that it is your fault if you are not making it. As if how well you are doing solely rests on you. Sure you are an important aspect of quality of life and if you do nothing, unsurprisingly nothing happens and things will likely worsen. However, at the same time, you share your existence with other people who may well be toxic and busy unmaking you in various ways. Or destroying you because for them to make the life they want means the need for others to be casualties of lost competition. A lot of people's desires to have what they want in life are chronically suppressed or inhibited by accident of geography, genetics and social demographic. Or simply chasing a wage and keeping lights on and food on the table.

Sometimes you are just too busy surviving to make life anything and the next thing you know you have chronic arthritis and your dreams of scuba diving in the barrier reef go to die as your boss informs you they can no longer keep you on. Then your insurance denies you access to effective pain relief because of a government initiative you never voted for or have the power to change wants to keep you from being a potential junkie. The pain though makes you depressed and you can't even enjoy crotchet any more. All the while you eat into your life savings only to find your boiler just broke and you made the mistake of letting in a cowboy outfit to fix it that cause more problems and likely robbed you of your mother's jewellery. You go to the police but they have external targets to reduce knife crime not chase jewellery as the main priority, as someone prominent was fatally stabbed recently and the media lens is on their performance.

What you are often left with is a demand to change your perception of your life as if it is faulty. It is worth exploring if it is. Best to rule that out. If your doctors first response to you stating you are depressed is to throw brain altering chemicals at you and tell you to come back in two weeks. You are dealing with a moron who has failed at basics to rule out physical issues. This behaviour is becoming increasingly common as they drink coffee from paxil brand mug and only have fifteen minutes to acknowledge your existence in their busy day. But it is not all on you, to deny external forces plays a role is absurd. But that is honestly what has happened within the mental health field. Reductionist approach that reduces you to being at fault if you don't attain wellness in a timely manner. Whilst simultaneously does its damndest to distract from the meat grinder we accept as normal and the role that plays in breeding this level of pain in the first place.

You also only have to look at social mobility statistics to know what an anomaly it is to escape deprived conditions and how much more of an uphill battle it is. Not at all saying it is impossible. But I can't help but laugh at youtube videos that talk about 'easy or lazy money' or tell you, you are the only thing holding you back. It does not help you have various self-help gurus pushing this idea as if it is easy and they are the poster child of success because of a can-do attitude of just believe in yourself... It is easy though to get wealthy via selling quick fixes and hope to the desperate. My disdain magnifies tenfold when this idea is pushed into the realms of the magical. Where your thoughts apparently manifest reality! Guess that person raped by their uncle just did not have enough positive vibes put out into the universe that day...

Life is also what others make it and what landmines they leave behind that may already have been stepped on or need to be avoided. Add in various societal forces beyond your capacity to control and how at the mercy of them you are. Then how much is life solely what you make it? Throw in some ravaging illness atop that then life gets further reduced to limiting factors and base survival. Wind up in an abusive situation or be born into one and life is then what someone else makes it. Long after you escape what they made your mind can still live with you. On a psychological level we are also shaped by the people most in our lives and hell sometimes is most definitely other people. Some of those people we don't even see, viewing us as only existing as numbers on a spreadsheet to them. Numbers don't scream, beg or plead and have no consequence to them.

Life is what you make it. It is such a shit phrase, sounds wise but is ultimately empty, offers nothing, and certainly doesn't help with any pain you are actually in.
 
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Umbra

Umbra

Trans Girl
Mar 15, 2019
109
"Life is supposed to be hard"
So what? If you want to ctb over life being hard it doesn't matter whether or not it's supposed to be that way.
"You get out what you put in"
Um... no? Did children born into rich families work their butts off in the womb to be that way? Did children born into poverty and starvation just not work hard enough?
 
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bigj75

bigj75

“From Knowledge springs power."
Sep 1, 2018
2,540
"Life is supposed to be hard"
So what? If you want to ctb over life being hard it doesn't matter whether or not it's supposed to be that way.
"You get out what you put in"
Um... no? Did children born into rich families work their butts off in the womb to be that way? Did children born into poverty and starvation just not work hard enough?
its a dismissive statement to cope with the reality that some people are fucked no matter what they do.
 
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J

JoeFailure

Mage
Apr 29, 2019
590
If you have ever reached out to anyone about your pain and suffering, likely you have heard this from at least one person.

How do you react?


For me, I can understand that 'reward takes effort' and such other things but I think the main difference is the scale of the pain-gain ratio. Once it tips into a situation where everyday things become an immense struggle and you are beaten down one time too many, how can anyone say you need to push harder when they don't know what you are going through.

I think to an extent these things are true, but sometimes like you said it becomes out of a person's control with mental/physical illness.

It's hard to say. I know if I had understood those things at an earlier age, my life could have been a lot different. But I didn't. And I don't know what to make of that. What do you do if you just didn't get it and other people did?
 
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bigj75

bigj75

“From Knowledge springs power."
Sep 1, 2018
2,540
I think to an extent these things are true, but sometimes like you said it becomes out of a person's control with mental/physical illness.

It's hard to say. I know if I had understood those things at an earlier age, my life could have been a lot different. But I didn't. And I don't know what to make of that. What do you do if you just didn't get it and other people did?
That's why it blows my mind when people give other people criticism without having full In depth knowledge of that persons life.
there are so many variables to why someone acts the way they do and feels the way they feel.
 
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Asta

Asta

Specialist
Jun 7, 2019
318
"...supposed to be hard"? Who in this world can possibly say what life is "supposed" to be like? As for "You get out what you put in", maybe true for some and not for others no matter how much they try. That's why these generalizations and clichés are so ridiculous!!
 
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TowerUpright

TowerUpright

Disillusioned
May 26, 2019
602
I can't stand people who use cliches to sound wise, when in reality, they're ignorant people. Maybe they just don't know any better.

But, I am reminded of the wit of Tom Lehrer. "Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."

Life is shitty.
 
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D

deathenvoy

Experienced
Mar 29, 2019
215
Yeah life is hard even for emotionally stable person.
Life is hell for emotional cripple like myself.
 
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bigj75

bigj75

“From Knowledge springs power."
Sep 1, 2018
2,540
Life is supposed to be hard but possible. It's how things are and you actually want a challenge in life.

For example superman comics got boring the more powerful superman got. the sales went to shit. Superman being able to beat any and everything so easily was what dropped the sales. people dont like it when things are too easy.

now of course they don't want shit to be too hard either. that's like living a slave life. you have no power and nomatter how hard you fight you get beat every time. nobody wants that life for themselves.

People operate best when their life has challenge but you have the capability to aquire pleasure and power from your accomplishments and hard work.

People in this forum fall into the life is too hard category. nomatter what we do we remain depressed.
 
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O

oopswronglife

Elementalist
Jun 27, 2019
870
Those are both more examples of simplistic sayings people with Stockholm Syndrome love to parrot. Neither are true, but it makes them feel more right and wise.
 
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Alec

Alec

Wizard
Apr 22, 2019
681
If someone told me life is meant to be hard in a dismissive way when I had opened up to them about my own pain rendered myself vulnerable that way. I would simply ask meant by what and who and then also why? Are some people meant to be raped by their uncle? Are some people meant to starve to death because of accident of geography of birth? Should we not care or mitigate that pain because life is simply hard? How does that justify dismissal of my own pain in this moment? If your girlfriend was stabbed to death in front of you and my dismissive response was, 'Well life is hard, people die all the time and horrible things happen because life is a harsh bastard. Could be worse at least she went quick." You would rightly think me an insensitive jerk. That is pretty much what you are doing right now. It also addresses nothing, yes life is hard. So what, how does that help me with my pain? That awareness sure as fuck does not take it away. Does nothing to fix it either. If you want to trivialize it further with, 'Well at least you are not a starving African.' Are you saying I need to be starving African before you will acknowledge my pain is meaningful enough to help me with it? Why am I even talking to you?

I also wrote this elsewhere, seems relevant enough to the topic. But I am a bitter sod ranting here for cathartic reasons, so I apologise.

There are many phrases that piss me off I call them fortune cookie phrases because that is where they belong in how disposable, empty, forgettable and far removed from reality they are. I guess it depends on the context of how it is said. A lot of this stuff though is just dismissive. Up there with being told to appreciate a rainbow. Like that will fix 18 years of chronic abuse or the assault of your own mind ripping you apart over everything you have failed at...

This would only be true if we lived in a vacuum where all efforts were not impeded by external forces. But they are, there is also the subtle insinuation that it is your fault if you are not making it. As if how well you are doing solely rests on you. Sure you are an important aspect of quality of life and if you do nothing, unsurprisingly nothing happens and things will likely worsen. However, at the same time, you share your existence with other people who may well be toxic and busy unmaking you in various ways. Or destroying you because for them to make the life they want means the need for others to be casualties of lost competition. A lot of people's desires to have what they want in life are chronically suppressed or inhibited by accident of geography, genetics and social demographic. Or simply chasing a wage and keeping lights on and food on the table.

Sometimes you are just too busy surviving to make life anything and the next thing you know you have chronic arthritis and your dreams of scuba diving in the barrier reef go to die as your boss informs you they can no longer keep you on. Then your insurance denies you access to effective pain relief because of a government initiative you never voted for or have the power to change wants to keep you from being a potential junkie. The pain though makes you depressed and you can't even enjoy crotchet any more. All the while you eat into your life savings only to find your boiler just broke and you made the mistake of letting in a cowboy outfit to fix it that cause more problems and likely robbed you of your mother's jewellery. You go to the police but they have external targets to reduce knife crime not chase jewellery as the main priority, as someone prominent was fatally stabbed recently and the media lens is on their performance.

What you are often left with is a demand to change your perception of your life as if it is faulty. It is worth exploring if it is. Best to rule that out. If your doctors first response to you stating you are depressed is to throw brain altering chemicals at you and tell you to come back in two weeks. You are dealing with a moron who has failed at basics to rule out physical issues. This behaviour is becoming increasingly common as they drink coffee from paxil brand mug and only have fifteen minutes to acknowledge your existence in their busy day. But it is not all on you, to deny external forces plays a role is absurd. But that is honestly what has happened within the mental health field. Reductionist approach that reduces you to being at fault if you don't attain wellness in a timely manner. Whilst simultaneously does its damndest to distract from the meat grinder we accept as normal and the role that plays in breeding this level of pain in the first place.

You also only have to look at social mobility statistics to know what an anomaly it is to escape deprived conditions and how much more of an uphill battle it is. Not at all saying it is impossible. But I can't help but laugh at youtube videos that talk about 'easy or lazy money' or tell you, you are the only thing holding you back. It does not help you have various self-help gurus pushing this idea as if it is easy and they are the poster child of success because of a can-do attitude of just believe in yourself... It is easy though to get wealthy via selling quick fixes and hope to the desperate. My disdain magnifies tenfold when this idea is pushed into the realms of the magical. Where your thoughts apparently manifest reality! Guess that person raped by their uncle just did not have enough positive vibes put out into the universe that day...

Life is also what others make it and what landmines they leave behind that may already have been stepped on or need to be avoided. Add in various societal forces beyond your capacity to control and how at the mercy of them you are. Then how much is life solely what you make it? Throw in some ravaging illness atop that then life gets further reduced to limiting factors and base survival. Wind up in an abusive situation or be born into one and life is then what someone else makes it. Long after you escape what they made your mind can still live with you. On a psychological level we are also shaped by the people most in our lives and hell sometimes is most definitely other people. Some of those people we don't even see, viewing us as only existing as numbers on a spreadsheet to them. Numbers don't scream, beg or plead and have no consequence to them.

Life is what you make it. It is such a shit phrase, sounds wise but is ultimately empty, offers nothing, and certainly doesn't help with any pain you are actually in.
This is beautiful! Thank you for writing this, I love you!!!❤️❤️❤️
 
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C

Codieb1

Student
Jun 18, 2019
178
What's the point when you get nothing out of effort. Life is just a huge gamble, a bold statement like this is nothing but an unrealistically optimistic assumption. Personally I don't have any kind of sense of enjoyment or fun, so I'm suicidal literally because I don't feel joy. I constantly get told "I need to get out there and find something I like". But I already know I'm literally not capable of enjoying anything, no matter what it is. So really, there's no point.
 
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snowman626

snowman626

Mage
Jan 28, 2019
545
These quotes are like a passive way for ppl telling you that you're just lazy and dont even try and its your own damn fault.

How bout another quote "you gotta take the good with the bad" as if they automatically assume you've enjoyed the good and are now just unwilling to also accept the bad like a spoiled little brat. In reality good and bad came in unequal amounts heavily weighted towards the bad. Why is 1% good worth 99% bad?

Normal people spent effort and results follow, albeit some setbacks but eventually it pays off. Two steps forward one step back. They will not understand people who every single time just gets one step forward two, three, four steps back. Shit never ends and eventually you just burn out and run out of energy because all that struggle is apparently for nothing.

But normal people its like climbing up a steep hill (hard but doable)For other people its like climbing out of a well or a coffin nailed shut.
 
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P

Pan

Paragon
Oct 24, 2019
914
If you have ever reached out to anyone about your pain and suffering, likely you have heard this from at least one person.

How do you react?


For me, I can understand that 'reward takes effort' and such other things but I think the main difference is the scale of the pain-gain ratio. Once it tips into a situation where everyday things become an immense struggle and you are beaten down one time too many, how can anyone say you need to push harder when they don't know what you are going through.
Unfortunately, life is cruel, brutal and fleeting. Death, it would seem to me, is the ultimate luxury of life.
 
TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

Visionary
Aug 27, 2018
2,999
Once it tips into a situation where everyday things become an immense struggle and you are beaten down one time too many
This is so true I see my life existence now as constant hardship and pain with no reward every day is a battle and I get NO reward whatsoever I also have apathy and anhedonia so I don´t even enjoy little things like a series or video games anymore so I literally have to get up every morning to face another brutal day with no reward in sight and this is getting worse year after year.
 
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2

2manyproblems

Member
Jan 4, 2020
53
I think this is a way of thinking that is part of a toxic ideology that I don't agree with.
 
Yuqani

Yuqani

a poorly written character
Oct 30, 2019
31
Society: life is supposed to be hard

Also Society: invents a million things to make life easier and more pleasurable
 
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BabyYoda

BabyYoda

F*ck this sh!t I'm out
Dec 30, 2019
552
My friend said something similar, and that it's our "job" to be empathetic towards others to make life more fair. But dude, I'm already tired. I already surpassed my limit. I fucking have limits. 30 episodes of depression isn't worth finding someone to love me. I don't wanna try anymore.

Doing something that I like would be still enjoyable despite the hardships that go along with it. Except that for life, I do not. Yes some games can be hard, but so what if you enjoy playing them. This is not the case for life in general, especially if the bad overpowers the good. Believe it or not I didn't become stronger from all that shit. Images
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
Existence itself doesn't have any rewards. It's basically suffering until you die. People who say that kind of stuff are usually just insecure and projecting their fears.
They're basically lying to themselves and others.
Life was never meant to have rewards.
 
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A

AintNoWayOut

Student
Jan 6, 2020
173
they're close minded people who clearly havent dealt with certain types of struggles. "Life is what you make of it", right, so the guy who gets hit by a car and can no longer move 90% of his body... thats what HE made of his life, right? HE chose to get hit by that car, now HE must reap what he sowed. and whats stopping him from still living a great life as a vegetable? the sky is the limit dude!!! take that from me, a privileged person who was clearly dealt the right hand in life!

but in all seriousness, those phrases are just meaningless platitudes meant to shame those in bad places. they simplify life as being the same fight for everyone, as if everyone is given the same opportunities and the worst it can be is an uphill battle, totally ignoring people in far more unfortunate scenarios than their own who dont even have the ability to fight or be happy. its selfish and based off their own personal experience, period.
 
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Thinker

Thinker

Member
Jan 7, 2020
10
There is no way to increase your genetic value, it's all predetermined

Some people are just born with IQ, beauty, and good neurotransmitters
 
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J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
"You get what you put in" and the like are mindless, optimistic slogans that do not accurately reflect reality.

Sure it's sometimes the case that one's efforts are succesful but to think it's a universal principle amounts to irrational, wishful thinking plain and simple. People want and need to believe they are in control of their life so they cling to such irrational beliefs (there are many factors at play which influence our lives many of them negative: we could get cancer tomorrow, we could be caught in a horrible accident, we could be laid off due to no fault of our own...) and push them on others.

It's the pernicious effect of optimism which idiots hold is somehow a moral virtue, nay an imperative. The reality of life is that, as Buddha and many others rightfully taught, it is suffering by and large. Optimists need to explain why it's so great to be inevitably heading towards death and be almost guaranteed to suffer gravely at some point in life, losing loved-ones etcetera.

The New York Times claimed 2019 was the best year yet. How the hell do they know? Was it the best year for those who suffered horrible burns, wasted away from cancer or hunger, were killed violently... I'm sure for those clowns with a high salary in their warm, cozy offices in good health etcetera it was a splendid year but how dare they insult the millions for whom it certainly wasn't 'the best year' or even a tolerable one?
 
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WhyIsLife56

WhyIsLife56

Antinatalism + Efilism ❤️
Nov 4, 2019
1,075
It's irrational, wishful thinking plain and simple. People want and need to believe they are in control of their life so they cling to such irrational beliefs (there are many factors at play which influence our lives many of them negative: we could get cancer tomorrow, we could be caught in a horrible accident, we could be laid off due to no fault of our own...) and push them on others.

It's the pernicious effect of optimism which idiots hold is somehow a moral virtue, nay an imperative. The reality of life is that, as Buddha and many others rightfully taught, it is suffering by and large. Optimists need to explain why it's so great to be inevitably heading towards death and be almost guaranteed to suffer gravely at some point in life, losing loved-ones etcetera.

The New York Times claimed 2019 was the best year yet. How the hell do they know? Was it the best year for those who suffered horrible burns, wasted away from cancer or hunger, were killed violently... I'm sure for those clowns with a high salary in their warm, cozy offices in good health etcetera it was a splendid year but how dare they insult the millions for whom it certainly wasn't 'the best year' or even a tolerable one?
Exactly. There's no guarantee for anyone's life at all.
 
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