Discussion "Life is precious" is inhibiting right-to-die progress

[Alexei_Kirillov]

After my experience with a "wellness check" and an involuntary psych ward stay (two separate occasions), I wrote a letter to my provincial elected representative to express how unjust the treatment of suicidal people in our society is. To be more specific, I took issue with the current law, which stipulates that the state can intervene if someone is threat to others or themselves. I was nuanced about it and did highlight that I understand why in cases of, for example, psychosis, keeping someone in a hold for a limited amount of time could be beneficial to them, but it makes no sense to lump all "people who represent a threat to themselves" into one bucket.

My decision to attempt CTB was not impulsive and was something that had been in the works for months already at that point. There was no reason why I should've been held in a psych ward with people of various other mental disorders, and I am hardly the first to have this experience. I expressed that I believe the state has no business intervening in cases where the person is of sound mind. Won't reprint the entire thing here but that was the gist of the letter.

This was the response I got (translated so sorry if it's a little clunky):

We thank you for sharing your opinion on the lack of choices people in suicidal distress are faced with.

The difference between people in psychosis and people who choose to end their lives in full conscience can be valid. And when we apply the famous <law name> in order to forcibly hold someone, the effects are real. We also believe that nobody is born with suicidal thoughts and in terms of prevention there is still much work to do. Additionally, in our eyes, every life has an important value, and on that note, there exist resources to talk about suicidal thoughts. We invite you to get into contact with the <suicide prevention centre> to talk more.

(Emphasis mine).

Just wanted to share because I thought the response was really telling as to how society, including our elected representatives, view suicide. It makes me despair as to how long it will take to see progress on right-to-die if "life is precious and should be protected at all costs" is still the underlying belief on all sides of the political spectrum (in this case, my representative is from the left-most party in our legislature).

@TAW122 pinging in case this might interest you.

 

[iloverachel]

"life is precious and should be protected at all costs" is the biggest load of garbage I have heard
I am truly sorry you are suffering and dealing with all this my friend

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Is it just me, or does that response also come off as slightly condescending? Either way, these people need to understand that life isn't precious to everyone and that people deserve to have the right to die if they want to. Her response was complete trash.

 

[FuneralCry]

That really is so disgusting, pro-lifers are sadists to me. I bet it'd be different if they ended up in extreme torture and agony, then they wouldn't be going on about how valiable it is to prolong unnecessary suffering as much as possible even know it's all meaningless and we're all just going to die anyway, prevention is really just prolonging suffering.

I see no value in being enslaved in this pointless existence for decades on end just to die slowly and painfully tormented by old age especially as there are no disadvantages to not existing at all, I'd always prefer to not exist, so horrible how there's no acceptance towards the fact that not everyone wants to exist.

 

[botanist_dude]

Life is a series of biochemical processes, some of which involve oxidation-reduction, waste management and so on. That's it. People make it out to be "so rare and precious". BS, it's just another series of events happening in the universe, no different from a planet just moving with gravity. You should have total freedom to do with your life what you want

 

[Catlover124]

Every life is valuable but each life also has an owner. Back in my high school, therr is a group of rich kids but they like to destroy expensive stuffs for fun. Do I think it is a pity? Yes but they are destroying what they own and no one is in the position to stop them.
My life might be valuable but it is my life. It is up to me whether to end it or not.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Life is a series of biochemical processes, some of which involve oxidation-reduction, waste management and so on. That's it. People make it out to be "so rare and precious". BS, it's just another series of events happening in the universe, no different from a planet just moving with gravity. You should have total freedom to do with your life what you want

True.

Life is just a chemical reaction

A human is just an animal, that first cell a machine, chemical reactions

540 million years ago Neurons connected to form a brain that can suffer excruciating pain. This is what they call valuable important. I call it a torture chamber a monstrous abomination

Those that want to enslave u want u to believe life is valuable important so that the slaves are kept in The prison

 

[lizzywizzy09]

"Every life has value." I am under no obligation to stick around to provide "value" to anybody, thank you very much.

 

[AR3S_]

After my experience with a "wellness check" and an involuntary psych ward stay (two separate occasions), I wrote a letter to my provincial elected representative to express how unjust the treatment of suicidal people in our society is. To be more specific, I took issue with the current law, which stipulates that the state can intervene if someone is threat to others or themselves. I was nuanced about it and did highlight that I understand why in cases of, for example, psychosis, keeping someone in a hold for a limited amount of time could be beneficial to them, but it makes no sense to lump all "people who represent a threat to themselves" into one bucket.

My decision to attempt CTB was not impulsive and was something that had been in the works for months already at that point. There was no reason why I should've been held in a psych ward with people of various other mental disorders, and I am hardly the first to have this experience. I expressed that I believe the state has no business intervening in cases where the person is of sound mind. Won't reprint the entire thing here but that was the gist of the letter.

This was the response I got (translated so sorry if it's a little clunky):

(Emphasis mine).

Just wanted to share because I thought the response was really telling as to how society, including our elected representatives, view suicide. It makes me despair as to how long it will take to see progress on right-to-die if "life is precious and should be protected at all costs" is still the underlying belief on all sides of the political spectrum (in this case, my representative is from the left-most party in our legislature).

@TAW122 pinging in case this might interest you.

I think to some life is precious..
However just as with religion, an individual's stance on any political subject etc. people are very set in their own beliefs, and rather than listening to a counterargument or opposing view; after-which they can then proces the information, people can't wait to argue their own point of view, completely disregarding what has been said and shutting down the opposing view.

I also think death is precious..
There are so many horrible ways of dying, I think it is a beautiful process to have a choice/say over the process and timing of CTB. However this won't be a mainstream idea for a very long time, due to generations on top of generations either having to CTB the hard way, or push on with life.

 

[botanist_dude]

True.

Life is just a chemical reaction

A human is just an animal, that first cell a machine, chemical reactions

540 million years ago Neurons connected to form a brain that can suffer excruciating pain. This is what they call valuable important. I call it a torture chamber a monstrous abomination

Those that want to enslave u want u to believe life is valuable important so that the slaves are kept in The prison

Yes!! couldn't say it better.

 

[divinemistress36]

When people tell me life is precious it makes me want to die even more

 

[lizzywizzy09]

When people tell me life is precious it makes me want to die even more

My response is to tell them to go live their own precious lives and leave me to it.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

"Every life has value." I am under no obligation to stick around to provide "value" to anybody, thank you very much.

Yes; especially given that certain suicidal people are not provided any (positive) value by those who mistreat them.

 

[Kalista]

We also believe that nobody is born with suicidal thoughts and in terms of prevention there is still much work to do.

true, yet it's still our choice to proceed with suicide because it's our life, not yours, not anyone else's.

Additionally, in our eyes, every life has an important value, and on that note, there exist resources to talk about suicidal thoughts.

so the majority of you will just decide for us how to deal with our own life when it comes to suicide? so what happens afterwards when you've 'succeeded' to keep one alive after FORCING them into a mental hospital and feeding them psych meds that fucks with their brains even more?
safe to say you're not going to make it your responsibility to deal with that person's real problems that had caused them to choose suicide in the first place.

having suicidal thoughts DOES NOT MEAN we are incapable of making choices or we are not in the right mind. we're just fucking tired of the shit we have to deal with whether it's mental or physical.

We invite you to get into contact with the <suicide prevention centre> to talk more.

a trap. you'll be sent to the mental hospital fairly quickly after that 'conversation.'

there are so many things wrong with this ignorant representative's words. placing every person's situation under one category is absolute stupidity. a trait politicians all share.

 

[theboy]

Welcome to the world

 

[LaughingGoat]

Man's futile attempt to delay the inevitable is one aspect where I truly connect with absurdism as a philosophy and just genuinely laugh.

 

[itsneverbeenmoreove]

I think a proper philosophical analysis of phrases like "all life is precious" could very easily lead to a greater acceptance of right to die. Depending on where someone gets the phrase of course. If they have some religious justification for this belief, I don't think you have much chance, but if they're trying to work under some sort of materialist, rational moral framework, I think it is inevitable that the end conclusion that valuing life above all else requires valuing the choices of those lives. And if a life chooses to cease, I think respecting that would be totally congruent with a belief that "all life is precious". Indeed, I think not respecting that would actually be anathema to the supposedly held value.
Of course, I don't believe anybody is actually morally consistent enough to recognize this conclusion. At least, not yet. Especially when there are so many people talking about "human rights" and "the right to life" or whatever. The only natural right any living being is granted is the right to struggle to survive. That is the only right that can never be denied to any creature. Every so called universal right is something created by society. It is all subjective. And I believe that at the base of things is that right to either struggle to survive or not struggle to survive. To deny that is to deny what I believe is a small truth in our world.
I don't mean to sound overly pretentious or anything, but I think it is worth considering how RTD should be considered within potential moral and ethical frameworks. And at least to me, I believe it is at its very core, fundamental to respect the RTD if you are to respect anything else.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I admire you for making the effort to voice your opinions to them.

I guess it's the cynical part of me that reads their response: 'in our eyes, every life has an important value' and thinks- yeah- I bet you do see monetry value in every life: 'You can't go yet- we haven't finished exploting you!'

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

I think a proper philosophical analysis of phrases like "all life is precious" could very easily lead to a greater acceptance of right to die. Depending on where someone gets the phrase of course. If they have some religious justification for this belief, I don't think you have much chance, but if they're trying to work under some sort of materialist, rational moral framework, I think it is inevitable that the end conclusion that valuing life above all else requires valuing the choices of those lives. And if a life chooses to cease, I think respecting that would be totally congruent with a belief that "all life is precious". Indeed, I think not respecting that would actually be anathema to the supposedly held value.
Of course, I don't believe anybody is actually morally consistent enough to recognize this conclusion. At least, not yet. Especially when there are so many people talking about "human rights" and "the right to life" or whatever. The only natural right any living being is granted is the right to struggle to survive. That is the only right that can never be denied to any creature. Every so called universal right is something created by society. It is all subjective. And I believe that at the base of things is that right to either struggle to survive or not struggle to survive. To deny that is to deny what I believe is a small truth in our world.
I don't mean to sound overly pretentious or anything, but I think it is worth considering how RTD should be considered within potential moral and ethical frameworks. And at least to me, I believe it is at its very core, fundamental to respect the RTD if you are to respect anything else.

Agreed. Not sure if you've ever tried discussing the philosophical validity of "life is inherently valuable" with pro-lifers, but in my experience as soon as you bring it up, they shut the conversation down. I have explicitly been told before that "I'm not interested in your nihilist claims" (even though I never said anything about nihilism) and "I don't want to discuss this as a philosophical or intellectual matter." Even tip-toeing around the subject seems to make them quite uncomfortable. I wonder if the reason why they're wholly unwilling to scrutinize this belief is because so much of their worldview rests on it, so it becomes a matter of personal defense.

I don't think it'll occur in my lifetime, but I do hope that as a society we can eventually reach the point where the Overton Window shifts enough to allow public debate of this topic. And if that happened, I think the validity of RTD would become obvious to a lot of people very quickly.