Venting Laziness.... Why?

[Dawn0071111]

Im perplexed by my unwillingness to invest effort into change. It doesn't seem worth it. To change my personality, my thinking, balues, beliefs.... I just gave in. Im lazy... Why start from the bottomat 40? Its not just about a job or a place to live. If thats all it was Id be fine, but Inner Work? Letting someone give me a dreaded diagnosis? Having to face myself, problems, deficiencies? Ummm.. nope. Id rather die than change. I find that to be so sad.

Who else says fuck it?

 

[blanketyblk]

This is know. i joined a gym. starting exercising everyday and lost close to 30 pounds. but this week have thrown in the towel. just can'[t be stuff anymore. I'm still losing weight because i now eat fuck all. food has lost it's enjoyment. it's purely for body to get energy now so now i just want to come home for work. have a small bowl of rice and go to bed. i just can't be stuffed.

i'm 2 more months away from my CTB date and thats it for me.. hopping in those 2 months to lose the last 25 pounds. so i can wear a special dress that i plan on CTBing in. thats my main goal. lol. how sad

 

[Soul]

You've been very disciplined - good job.
I'd love to hear about the dress. x

 

[justanotherday]

Im perplexed by my unwillingness to invest effort into change. It doesn't seem worth it. To change my personality, my thinking, balues, beliefs.... I just gave in. Im lazy... Why start from the bottomat 40? Its not just about a job or a place to live. If thats all it was Id be fine, but Inner Work? Letting someone give me a dreaded diagnosis? Having to face myself, problems, deficiencies? Ummm.. nope. Id rather die than change. I find that to be so sad.

Who else says fuck it?

I cannot change either. I believe to change is so much easier said than done. We are all born with certain dispositions, personalities, ect... Getting a person to just change is like telling an extrovert they must become an introvert.

 

[262653]

Isn't death one of the ways to change? I don't see it to be worth it either. Might be a way to solve the dissonance between wanting to change and not changing the way I want to. And don't underestimate the influence of habits which grows as they become more ingrained.

What is is that you want to do?

 

[blanketyblk]

You've been very disciplined - good job.
I'd love to hear about the dress. x

Will send you a photo of the dress. it was what i wore on my first date with Kate. it's a size 6 and i'm down to size 14. i know i can do it!

 

[Dawn0071111]

Isn't death one of the ways to change? I don't see it to be worth it either. Might be a way to solve the dissonance between wanting to change and not changing the way I want to. And don't underestimate the influence of habits which grows as they become more ingrained.

What is is that you want to do?

What is it that I want to do? Well escape suffering...lol. Escape all the things I can't "cope" with rather than "developing coping skills" Im just suprised at the magnitude of resistence I have against learning, growing....
So its easier to give up & die because I want easier.... Life has been hard enough, I didnt have the tools & skills to madter life, why bother now at 40, when I might be developmentally starting at 2 or 5 or 11 or 14? Fuck that. I didn't sign up to show up into a "pull yourself up from the bootstraps" kinda world. Im am 99% isolated. I have no family, no kids, and the couple of friends are dedicated to thier own lives.... I know I "created" this life.... But it took took too long to see this... Your right about habits hardening.... very little is impossible in this world, but for me it's effectively impossible to change so much.... and to take it a little at a time to me is preposterous considering the goal is a happy life. Funny, everyone wants to be happy, but it seems almost everything about life is positioned against this desire. Everytime hope flickers, I stamp it out. It is my enemy. I will not be duped again.

Ive GOT to die. It is my intention to have a final goodbye post & funeral here.....

 

[sad_frog]

This might be the first step to finding this elusive "change"... Recognizing that it's either change or death.
...Maybe you're closer than you think to recovery.

 

[TheblueBunny]

I had a point in my life where I said fuck it, I'll stop trying. I stopped doing things - such as school, showering, eating, going outside, the list goes on and on - I didn't want to change my ways of giving up. Then I actually changed and things (surprisingly!) got better. However, these changes are hard to maintain and I find myself wanting to die rather than making those changes to my life again. I am slowly slipping back to that lifestyle for reasons seemingly unknown.

I feel as if changing my ways, beliefs, personality, etc. would be too much work. I'm getting closer and closer to just saying fuck it all, but I keep trying, at least a little bit.

I hope others find their own solution, I hope to find my solution too.

 

[262653]

What is it that I want to do?

I'll put it the way I can without spending too much time refining text.

I'm convinced that we are trying to avoid triggers that make us actively suicidal, the way we avoid touching hot frying pans or put sharp things close to our eyes. Same with plane and simple questions. If my arm would get chopped off another person wouldn't feel a thing. We can trigger each other by talking, for example, because we won't know if we are hurting. We can lead each other into new directions, just by interacting in a simple way.

About happiness. I believe that by default it's a secondary objective while the primary being to stay alive. "As long as I live, my life is a success." That kind of motto I usually see in people, exactly the thing the unstoppable urge to live (or whatever it emanates from) would say if it had a voice. I think happiness and it's negative counterpart are meant to guide us towards preserving life, like shortcuts, chase and eschew. But then how it happened that good/bad feelings are getting a priority over living/dying? My point is, something might have gone terribly wrong, but this nasty predicament has a solution too. (Too literally, hehe.)

 

[irrelevant_string]

I'll put it the way I can without spending too much time refining text.

I'm convinced that we are trying to avoid triggers that make us actively suicidal, the way we avoid touching hot frying pans or put sharp things close to our eyes. Same with plane and simple questions. If my arm would get chopped off another person wouldn't feel a thing. We can trigger each other by talking, for example, because we won't know if we are hurting. We can lead each other into new directions, just by interacting in a simple way.

About happiness. I believe that by default it's a secondary objective while the primary being to stay alive. "As long as I live, my life is a success." That kind of motto I usually see in people, exactly the thing the unstoppable urge to live (or whatever it emanates from) would say if it had a voice. I think happiness and it's negative counterpart are meant to guide us towards preserving life, like shortcuts, chase and eschew. But then how it happened that good/bad feelings are getting a priority over living/dying? My point is, something might have gone terribly wrong, but this nasty predicament has a solution too. (Too literally, hehe.)

I'm not sure how to understand the meaning of "meant" there. Meant as in - they usually do, or it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective? Meant in any other way ascribes value to something that I see as fundamentally lacking any value.

I'd say that at the core we're driven to pursue pleasure/good feelings(perhaps by definition but that just gets into semantics), and not necessarily to survive.

Now to explain why those two things usually coincide we can easily invoke the theory of natural selection which is self-explanatory.
And now to explain why sometimes they do not, I'd say that selection is an on-going process which on a smaller scale operates in specific environmental conditions and can never truly produce perfect adaptability because of the growing complexity and number of all the variables that are involved in determining the environment an organism interacts with.

Considering the rate of technological progress, the evolutionary mechanism that produced our ancestors is becoming less relevant. We live in an environment our biology isn't adapted to.

 

[Dawn0071111]

This might be the first step to finding this elusive "change"... Recognizing that it's either change or death.
...Maybe you're closer than you think to recovery.

Yes, I have discovered that quite clearly I have come to the fork in the road that are clearly marked change or die and I have chosen death. I have absolutely no interest in the path of change whatsoever. I don't want to be recovered I want to be rescued. And since I don't live in a reality that supports rescuing the way out for me is death and I am content with that.

I had a point in my life where I said fuck it, I'll stop trying. I stopped doing things - such as school, showering, eating, going outside, the list goes on and on - I didn't want to change my ways of giving up. Then I actually changed and things (surprisingly!) got better. However, these changes are hard to maintain and I find myself wanting to die rather than making those changes to my life again. I am slowly slipping back to that lifestyle for reasons seemingly unknown.

I feel as if changing my ways, beliefs, personality, etc. would be too much work. I'm getting closer and closer to just saying fuck it all, but I keep trying, at least a little bit.

I hope others find their own solution, I hope to find my solution too.

It's the same for me I seem to be missing a consistently chip. It seems that my motivation for momentum can only last so long before I snap back into how I am. And I don't want to live my life and Leslie grinding and feeling a post to my nature. I know psychology says that we can change our personality and things that seem hardwired at us can be changed with certain techniques but I'm just kind of over it. Unfortunately I want things easy and that's just not how life is I'm okay with that. Rather than sticking around this place and being bitter and mad and harping my resentment on everyone else because life is it how I think it should be, and on top of that I don't want to change I think the most polite and Humane thing to do is just to remove myself.

I'll put it the way I can without spending too much time refining text.

I'm convinced that we are trying to avoid triggers that make us actively suicidal, the way we avoid touching hot frying pans or put sharp things close to our eyes. Same with plane and simple questions. If my arm would get chopped off another person wouldn't feel a thing. We can trigger each other by talking, for example, because we won't know if we are hurting. We can lead each other into new directions, just by interacting in a simple way.

About happiness. I believe that by default it's a secondary objective while the primary being to stay alive. "As long as I live, my life is a success." That kind of motto I usually see in people, exactly the thing the unstoppable urge to live (or whatever it emanates from) would say if it had a voice. I think happiness and it's negative counterpart are meant to guide us towards preserving life, like shortcuts, chase and eschew. But then how it happened that good/bad feelings are getting a priority over living/dying? My point is, something might have gone terribly wrong, but this nasty predicament has a solution too. (Too literally, hehe.)

I agree nasty predicamwnts has a solution. My stance is an active willful, conscious rejection of it in favor of what some call the "cowards way out" .... By suicide.
I am just done. Lol

 

[Eren]

I directly have no motivation for anything, I do not enjoy video games, or a movie or series. So I don't have motivation to change either, there are many things in my life that should change, I should join an English academy, I should lose weight (I'm obese, I've even had health problems because of this), and I don't even have the minimal motivation to do it, because I know that even if I lost weight or learned English, the reasons why I want CTB and the reasons why I don't like my life will not change.

 

[262653]

I'm not sure how to understand the meaning of "meant" there. Meant as in - they usually do, or it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective? Meant in any other way ascribes value to something that I see as fundamentally lacking any value.

I'd say that at the core we're driven to pursue pleasure/good feelings(perhaps by definition but that just gets into semantics), and not necessarily to survive.

Now to explain why those two things usually coincide we can easily invoke the theory of natural selection which is self-explanatory.
And now to explain why sometimes they do not, I'd say that selection is an on-going process which on a smaller scale operates in specific environmental conditions and can never truly produce perfect adaptability because of the growing complexity and number of all the variables that are involved in determining the environment an organism interacts with.

Considering the rate of technological progress, the evolutionary mechanism that produced our ancestors is becoming less relevant. We live in an environment our biology isn't adapted to.

Omg, I love you, you intellectual bulldozer how precisely you are describing things. All I get are strange motion pictures, like an ooze orb moving through a hazardous environment, with it's outer layer serving as an aegis (meat shield, cannon fodder) for the whole. Ooze represents the species and the inner/outer layers are like "winners/losers" maybe. Or the human body whose derma cells (I don't know names) are getting constantly expended to protect the whole organism.

I think by "meant" I meant evolutionary perspective. It looks like a learned response to me, but multigenerational...

I'm so excited to respond now but I have to go to bed in time to see sweet dreams about vampire castles and magic wards and other cool things.
And the fresh head would be better.

 

[irrelevant_string]

Omg, I love you, you intellectual bulldozer how precisely you are describing things

Oh my god, that's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me! I am shook!
I love your analogies, it can take me a while to decipher them sometimes but it's interesting. It initially struck me as implying that group selection is what's responsible for the advancement of the species, but I'm being too literal as replacing "the losers" with "the process of losers losing" removes the issue.

I'm so excited to respond now but I have to go to bed in time to see sweet dreams about vampire castles and magic wards and other cool things.

Sounds wonderful :)

 

[262653]

@irrelevant_string
I was hoping I would have something to add on the subject but I think that was it. I feel like I'm about to perform in a school paegant but I forgot all the lines. It's the toothpaste thing all over again. Or I don't know if it's worth mentioning.

Or maybe put it as the tree that branches (there should be a better object) in all directions, forming a sphere, but only a small cone is the living one. So every branch is winning at what they're doing, but not every ends up (or finds itself for long enough) in the "life" cone. Branches on the inner edge of the cone represent life forms that are at their death door and about to knock at any moment. And the core of the cone contains well adjusted life forms... And of course there are major turning points happening occasionally, but on the grand scale of things it's common to move forward.

If all my thoughts and ideas could be represented as the space station, you seem to always find a way to locate holes in it, and improve it. Well, all people do, but some more than others.

 

[irrelevant_string]

I was hoping I would have something to add on the subject but I think that was it. I feel like I'm about to perform in a school paegant but I forgot all the lines. It's the toothpaste thing all over again. Or I don't know if it's worth mentioning.

You're not alone in that.

But the sphere analogy was amazing. I started thinking of variants where some points on some branching lines branch themselves and form new spheres with their own life cones and old spheres eventually evaporate. And the apex of the cone is the branching point to allow for every branch to at least pass through it, but then life forms are points mpving along the lines until they hit the point of death, and not lines themselves(in order to not have everyone in the life cone all the time).
Alright, I don't know where I'm taking this. I'll stop before I ruin the picture completely.

If all my thoughts and ideas could be represented as the space station, you seem to always find a way to locate holes in it, and improve it. Well, all people do, but some more than others.

It's much easier to do that for others where you're not biased to look only in some specific places.
My thinking is just as flawed, it's just that usually nobody bothers to engage with it and correct it. The problem is usually present only from a certain point of view anyway and only once you've assumed what their axioms and definitions are. We assume too much often, but communication would get a lot less efficient otherwise.

 

[262653]

You're not alone in that.

But the sphere analogy was amazing. I started thinking of variants where some points on some branching lines branch themselves and form new spheres with their own life cones and old spheres eventually evaporate. And the apex of the cone is the branching point to allow for every branch to at least pass through it, but then life forms are points moving along the lines until they hit the point of death, and not lines themselves(in order to not have everyone in the life cone all the time).
Alright, I don't know where I'm taking this. I'll stop before I ruin the picture completely.

It's much easier to do that for others where you're not biased to look only in some specific places.
My thinking is just as flawed, it's just that usually nobody bothers to engage with it and correct it. The problem is usually present only from a certain point of view anyway and only once you've assumed what their axioms and definitions are. We assume too much often, but communication would get a lot less efficient otherwise.

Hahaha, you've taken it a few levels above. Yes, points are better. Wouldn't want them to return back to life, now would we? I felt like we are Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter sharing awesome ideas between each other. And I think by taking it to the new directions you are not ruining it but evolving it. Sort of like nature can afford the wide variety of abominations so that the few ones can preserve. Nature is a bitch, but it's a rich bitch. We too can afford lots of silly ideas of which most would lead nowhere, or to embarrassment for example. Shoot, calibrate, adjust, shoot again. I too think it's more efficient.

 

[irrelevant_string]

Hahaha, you've taken it a few levels above. Yes, points are better. Wouldn't want them to return back to life, now would we? I felt like we are Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter sharing awesome ideas between each other. And I think by taking it to the new directions you are not ruining it but evolving it. Sort of like nature can afford the wide variety of abominations so that the few ones can preserve. Nature is a bitch, but it's a rich bitch. We too can afford lots of silly ideas of which most would lead nowhere, or to embarrassment for example. Shoot, calibrate, adjust, shoot again. I too think it's more efficient.

Oh but the branching lines have to go not only thhrough the surface(sphere), but through the inside of the ball bounded by that sphere in order for the cone to have a function and not be reduced to just its base(which would have to fit perfectly inside the middle disk in the ball) but I don't like that, it becomes too chaotic, better to deal with a sphere and have all the branching lines on it terminate in the same point. Hmm... It's probably easiest to change the cone to a spherical dome to fix it.
Okay, I'll stop myself now. This one is not worth preserving.

 

[262653]

Oh but the branching lines have to go not only through the surface(sphere), but through the inside of the ball bounded by that sphere in order for the cone to have a function and not be reduced to just its base(which would have to fit perfectly inside the middle disk in the ball) but I don't like that, it becomes too chaotic, better to deal with a sphere and have all the branching lines on it terminate in the same point. Hmm... It's probably easiest to change the cone to a spherical dome to fix it.
Okay, I'll stop myself now. This one is not worth preserving.

Did you stop yourself because you didn't feel like unwrapping it any further, or because you thought you are being a bore, or for other reason?
I thought "dome" is an elegant way to say "domain" or "house", like "demesne" (I could never guess how it's pronounced) but it turned out to be a geometrical figure.

 

[irrelevant_string]

Did you stop yourself because you didn't feel like unwrapping it any further, or because you thought you are being a bore, or for other reason?
I thought "dome" is an elegant way to say "domain" or "house", like "demesne" (I could never guess how it's pronounced) but it turned out to be a geometrical figure.

I am being a bore and also ruining the picture in the sense that it can hardly be traced back to what it was originally intended to represent. It might be better to leave some blurry parts so as not to completely lose the relation between the two ideas and unwrapping it further by me seemed to lead to that.

 

[Sweet emotion]

Im perplexed by my unwillingness to invest effort into change. It doesn't seem worth it. To change my personality, my thinking, balues, beliefs.... I just gave in. Im lazy... Why start from the bottomat 40? Its not just about a job or a place to live. If thats all it was Id be fine, but Inner Work? Letting someone give me a dreaded diagnosis? Having to face myself, problems, deficiencies? Ummm.. nope. Id rather die than change. I find that to be so sad.

Who else says fuck it?

Do you think if you faced your problems and out in the effort the result would be worth it? Maybe you'd be happy. Yes you'd have to out some real effort in and dig deep inside yourself for quite some time. But if you're able to change and live a happy life I just figured why wouldn't you want to? But if you don't I understand. I find it sad too that you would rather die than face your problems and get better as well. Because I think you have a real chance here. The only way to get out is to go through. Don't be afraid of the diagnosis. There is so much good help that is out there just waiting to be given to you. Why don't you go to a few sessions and see? It couldn't hurt right? I'd just hate to see you give up if there is a possibility that you could live a great life. 40 isn't old. You still have so much time ahead of you.

 

[Edward1]

What is it that I want to do? Well escape suffering...lol. Escape all the things I can't "cope" with rather than "developing coping skills" Im just suprised at the magnitude of resistence I have against learning, growing....
So its easier to give up & die because I want easier.... Life has been hard enough, I didnt have the tools & skills to madter life, why bother now at 40, when I might be developmentally starting at 2 or 5 or 11 or 14? Fuck that. I didn't sign up to show up into a "pull yourself up from the bootstraps" kinda world. Im am 99% isolated. I have no family, no kids, and the couple of friends are dedicated to thier own lives.... I know I "created" this life.... But it took took too long to see this... Your right about habits hardening.... very little is impossible in this world, but for me it's effectively impossible to change so much.... and to take it a little at a time to me is preposterous considering the goal is a happy life. Funny, everyone wants to be happy, but it seems almost everything about life is positioned against this desire. Everytime hope flickers, I stamp it out. It is my enemy. I will not be duped again.

Ive GOT to die. It is my intention to have a final goodbye post & funeral here.....

I tried so hard to 'pull myself up by my boot straps' it's laughable. I spent years on it. I'm actually no better off than I was 20 years ago. So I've decided that I won't be doing the boot straps thing anybody. I'm ready to sit down in a comfy chair and have a long long rest.

 

[Sweet emotion]

Will send you a photo of the dress. it was what i wore on my first date with Kate. it's a size 6 and i'm down to size 14. i know i can do it!

I'm sorry don't you mean it was a size 14 and now you're down to a size 6?

 

[LayZ]

My sucidal procrastination is killing me, too...

 

[Intelligent_Lobster]

I cannot change either. I believe to change is so much easier said than done. We are all born with certain dispositions, personalities, ect... Getting a person to just change is like telling an extrovert they must become an introvert.

I'm some ways, this is true. We have schemas that make us think in certain ways. They are incredibly hard to change, or alter. It's almost impossible to do so unconsciously.

I'm not an expert, but social psychology can provide lots of insight into the human mind.

 

[sleepy dog]

Im perplexed by my unwillingness to invest effort into change. It doesn't seem worth it. To change my personality, my thinking, balues, beliefs.... I just gave in. Im lazy... Why start from the bottomat 40? Its not just about a job or a place to live. If thats all it was Id be fine, but Inner Work? Letting someone give me a dreaded diagnosis? Having to face myself, problems, deficiencies? Ummm.. nope. Id rather die than change. I find that to be so sad.

Who else says fuck it?

I am the same Dawn0071111. I am at a crossroads. I am 53. I don't think I have enough energy for any change that would help me be better off. It also all seems to hard, and it won't work anyway right. If I don't die, I will just keep watching TV, living alone, thinking inside my own head with no feedback. Where I live there is nothing to do. You said "I think the most polite and Humane thing to do is just to remove myself." That is one of my justifications for suicide. I can't explain all of it, but I agree with your thinking. And I am very isolated.