Venting “Keep on suffering, because if you choose suicide and die, others will be sad”

[リンさん]

Is one of the most tone deaf takes I've ever had my displeasure reading.

If you reprhase it into a more direct statement, it's "You should feel guilty because of something you haven't even done, and have little control over. We don't care about your situation, we don't care if you don't have any other choice, but what you want to do with your own life might upset people, which is a big no-no".

There might be more nuance to that, sure. And this advice does help some people. I just think it's a very selfish, unhelpful statement in general. Most suicidal people are already riddled with guilt, do we really want them to feel even more of it? And for what? Punishing someone for already feeling punished by life?

Being considerate of others is a great thing. But not when it breaches the territory of one's bodily autonomy. If someone who isn't blindsided is genuinely determined to commit suicide out of their own will, not letting them do so, incriminalizing and guilt tripping them is awful.

That's my take. Maybe it lacks nuance, because I am pretty opinionated when it comes to this. Would love to hear your opinions.

 

[FuneralCry]

Nobody else should have any right to tell other people to continue suffering as it's not their existence, I cannot stand insensitive pro-life guilt tripping.

 

[MatthieuFrederickW]

Isn't it ridiculous that animals are often humanely euthanised with a human made drug for conditions that humans have to endure a prolonged insufferable existence for. Even though animals clearly have far higher pain tolerance than humans. Don't get me wrong, I'm an animal lover, even feed the wild birds often. But a human could have locked-in syndrome and still not allowed to die if they wanted half the time. So it's not necessarily to keep the workers. What a world.

 

[flowers in the mist]

I agree.

I've heard a lot of people say that suicide is considered "selfish" since other people are left mourning.
But I think it's more selfish forcing a person to live a full life of suffering.

I think every person should have the right to do whatever they want without consequences.
Easier said than done obviously because mourning and sadness will always exist, which is natural if you miss a person that's no longer here.
I just wish there was more understanding and respect for ones wishes.

 

[passivethought121]

It is an annoying statement, and it is the thing keeping me here. I feel guilty existing and I'll feel guilty dying.

 

[Arihman]

Translation: "be a good sacrificial animal. Suffer more and (probably for a longer time) so we can be spared a likely significantly lesser degree of suffering that is inevitable anyway, which is the pain of loss. And don't you dare think otherwise, you have to endure and be brave for no other reason than because we will be sad, and we will call you a pussy otherwise".

If you have someone who doesn't just not want to see you die (which is understandable on its own), but thinks you should be forced to stay alive when you don't want to, it's time to cut contact with them. They should be kicked out of your life, as they are the kind of people who don't deserve your affection to begin with.

 

[TAW122]

I too, get annoyed by pro-lifers spewing such shitty statements and acting like they know what is best (when they clearly don't). What you said is spot-on, and it boils down to the pro-lifers' ego and their feelings. Really CTB prevention is another paternalistic act intending to control and keep those who wish to exit suffering trapped and stuck in a world they don't wish to partake in.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Because life on this planet is some kind of utopia where every problem has a neat and tidy solution that leaves everyone perfectly happy.

 

[ToxoGondii]

Is one of the most tone deaf takes I've ever had my displeasure reading.

If you reprhase it into a more direct statement, it's "You should feel guilty because of something you haven't even done, and have little control over. We don't care about your situation, we don't care if you don't have any other choice, but what you want to do with your own life might upset people, which is a big no-no".

There might be more nuance to that, sure. And this advice does help some people. I just think it's a very selfish, unhelpful statement in general. Most suicidal people are already riddled with guilt, do we really want them to feel even more of it? And for what? Punishing someone for already feeling punished by life?

Being considerate of others is a great thing. But not when it breaches the territory of one's bodily autonomy. If someone who isn't blindsided is genuinely determined to commit suicide out of their own will, not letting them do so, incriminalizing and guilt tripping them is awful.

That's my take. Maybe it lacks nuance, because I am pretty opinionated when it comes to this. Would love to hear your opinions.

I understand how you're feeling, I just don't get how people are willing to hurt or ignore you only to be upset when you're tired of everything. Why keep going if you're just going to take me for fuckin granted. fuck. you.

 

[wait.what]

I really have no patience for the "suicide doesn't end pain, it just spreads it around" argument. I'm never sure if the people who say such things are aware that the takeaway appears to be "I'm actually fine with the net amount of suffering in the world, and the fact that it's generally borne by the same people year in and year out. I just want to be sure that one of those people isn't ME."

There's also the evergreen piece of stupidity that is "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem," as if all problems, including that of life itself, weren't temporary, and also as if permanent solutions weren't worth pursuing for some reason. ("Is his cancer curable??" "Well technically yes, but that would just be a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and we can't have that.")

"God will never give you more than you can handle" is also stupid and demonstrably false, although in God's defense, he's only guaranteed to do it once.

Why should any of us bother to listen to this nonsense when it's obvious that even the people peddling it aren't listening to themselves?

 

[sserafim]

Is one of the most tone deaf takes I've ever had my displeasure reading.

If you reprhase it into a more direct statement, it's "You should feel guilty because of something you haven't even done, and have little control over. We don't care about your situation, we don't care if you don't have any other choice, but what you want to do with your own life might upset people, which is a big no-no".

There might be more nuance to that, sure. And this advice does help some people. I just think it's a very selfish, unhelpful statement in general. Most suicidal people are already riddled with guilt, do we really want them to feel even more of it? And for what? Punishing someone for already feeling punished by life?

Being considerate of others is a great thing. But not when it breaches the territory of one's bodily autonomy. If someone who isn't blindsided is genuinely determined to commit suicide out of their own will, not letting them do so, incriminalizing and guilt tripping them is awful.

That's my take. Maybe it lacks nuance, because I am pretty opinionated when it comes to this. Would love to hear your opinions.

It's literally guilt-tripping us and gaslighting us. Our suffering means nothing, we have to stay alive for other people. Forcing us to stay alive for others is selfish

 

[manuel1056x]

It is an annoying statement, and it is the thing keeping me here. I feel guilty existing and I'll feel guilty dying.

I couldn't have found better words. I absolutely agree.

Deciding which guilt is more serious is terrible for me. Will I disappoint them more when I keep living and fail, or when I die? I don't know.

 

[Cloud Busting]

There might be more nuance to that, sure. And this advice does help some people. I just think it's a very selfish, unhelpful statement in general. Most suicidal people are already riddled with guilt, do we really want them to feel even more of it? And for what? Punishing someone for already feeling punished by life?

100% agreed. I failed an attempt and I decided to try to recover instead. Why is that? It's because people close to me were shocked (when I thought I made it clear via subtle hints,) and believed I was a bigger burden dead than alive.

I genuinely believed those around me would be better off if I were dead. I was wrong, which made me realize my reasons for ctb were blindsided. So I do think I should genuinely try to recover. I can always CTB later if I discover I'm treatment resistant.

You know what didn't help? Being told it's selfish to CTB. My lizard brain interrupted that as, "See how selfish you are? See how much you bring people down and destroy them? You don't deserve to live you stupid piece of shit." The hypocrisy of pro-lifers is they want to keep you alive at all costs to assuage their own guilt and worries that it's their fault because they didn't try to save you. If they actually cared, they would listen to your dark thoughts instead of tell you to be positive. The irony is the people who whine about selfishness are the most self-serving.

Isn't it ridiculous that animals are often humanely euthanised with a human made drug for conditions that humans have to endure a prolonged insufferable existence for. Even though animals clearly have far higher pain tolerance than humans. Don't get me wrong, I'm an animal lover, even feed the wild birds often. But a human could have locked-in syndrome and still not allowed to die if they wanted half the time. So it's not necessarily to keep the workers. What a world.

Most humans genuinely believe they are superior to animals. It's very high and mighty.


@TAW122


Unpopular opinion, but I support suicide prevention in theory. Current practice is bogus and exactly as you describe it. If people actually wanted to help, they would work towards creating laws that mitigate suicide risk (like poverty,) and would reform our injustice mental health system. Pro-lifers care about their reputation (they wanna save a life at all costs. They could care less about relieving suffering.) of course, the same people who claim to be pro-life are also often anti-welfare and support criminalizing abortion (which increases suicide risk.) They're hypocrites.

My personal view is that suicide is a decision that is not to be taken lightly. I do believe there are people who have other options, but are so hopeless they cannot see any way out. I do believe it is worth providing aid to these people, yet our current model values coercion over dignity and bodily autonomy. Even more egregious is those who genuinely have no other option are forced to suffer under our current model. It is an insult to human rights. Makes my blood boil for sure

 

[リンさん]

100% agreed. I failed an attempt and I decided to try to recover instead. Why is that? It's because people close to me were shocked (when I thought I made it clear via subtle hints,) and believed I was a bigger burden dead than alive.

I genuinely believed those around me would be better off if I were dead. I was wrong, which made me realize my reasons for ctb were blindsided. So I do think I should genuinely try to recover. I can always CTB later if I discover I'm treatment resistant.

You know what didn't help? Being told it's selfish to CTB. My lizard brain interrupted that as, "See how selfish you are? See how much you bring people down and destroy them? You don't deserve to live you stupid piece of shit." The hypocrisy of pro-lifers is they want to keep you alive at all costs to assuage their own guilt and worries that it's their fault because they didn't try to save you. If they actually cared, they would listen to your dark thoughts instead of tell you to be positive. The irony is the people who whine about selfishness are the most self-serving.





Most humans genuinely believe they are superior to animals. It's very high and mighty.





Unpopular opinion, but I support suicide prevention in theory. Current practice is bogus and exactly as you describe it. If people actually wanted to help, they would work towards creating laws that mitigate suicide risk (like poverty,) and would reform our injustice mental health system. Pro-lifers care about their reputation (they wanna save a life at all costs. They could care less about relieving suffering.) of course, the same people who claim to be pro-life are also often anti-welfare and support criminalizing abortion (which increases suicide risk.) They're hypocrites.

My personal view is that suicide is a decision that is not to be taken lightly. I do believe there are people who have other options, but are so hopeless they cannot see any way out. I do believe it is worth providing aid to these people, yet our current model values coercion over dignity and bodily autonomy. Even more egregious is those who genuinely have no other option are forced to suffer under our current model. It is an insult to human rights. Makes my blood boil for sure

Couldn't agree more. As it is right now, suicide prevention is laughable at best and genuinely harmful at worst. Seeing people in desperate situations where they don't have housing, or money, or they feel betrayed by the system in general is so utterly heartbreaking. This is what suicide prevention should focus on. Working out the means to change and help the root cause, not spit out same old rhetorics we're all used to hearing at this point.

The entire system needs change. I wish it was something tangible and achievable, but I've lost hope of ever seeing this in my lifetime.

And also, unrelated, but I hope you're doing well on your recovery journey! Wishing you health and all the luck in this world.

 

[brokeandbroken]

Is one of the most tone deaf takes I've ever had my displeasure reading.

If you reprhase it into a more direct statement, it's "You should feel guilty because of something you haven't even done, and have little control over. We don't care about your situation, we don't care if you don't have any other choice, but what you want to do with your own life might upset people, which is a big no-no".

There might be more nuance to that, sure. And this advice does help some people. I just think it's a very selfish, unhelpful statement in general. Most suicidal people are already riddled with guilt, do we really want them to feel even more of it? And for what? Punishing someone for already feeling punished by life?

Being considerate of others is a great thing. But not when it breaches the territory of one's bodily autonomy. If someone who isn't blindsided is genuinely determined to commit suicide out of their own will, not letting them do so, incriminalizing and guilt tripping them is awful.

That's my take. Maybe it lacks nuance, because I am pretty opinionated when it comes to this. Would love to hear your opinions.

I mean the conversation should start with do you care I'm miserable? Do you care my brain is struggling to extract any happiness because none is there. There is nothing to be happy about? Do you care? Are you helping me? If not then I don't care what you are saying it's irrelevant. That goes for doctors, therapists, whoever. Do you care? No, cool then I don't either.

 

[Cheffo]

Is one of the most tone deaf takes I've ever had my displeasure reading.

If you reprhase it into a more direct statement, it's "You should feel guilty because of something you haven't even done, and have little control over. We don't care about your situation, we don't care if you don't have any other choice, but what you want to do with your own life might upset people, which is a big no-no".

There might be more nuance to that, sure. And this advice does help some people. I just think it's a very selfish, unhelpful statement in general. Most suicidal people are already riddled with guilt, do we really want them to feel even more of it? And for what? Punishing someone for already feeling punished by life?

Being considerate of others is a great thing. But not when it breaches the territory of one's bodily autonomy. If someone who isn't blindsided is genuinely determined to commit suicide out of their own will, not letting them do so, incriminalizing and guilt tripping them is awful.

That's my take. Maybe it lacks nuance, because I am pretty opinionated when it comes to this. Would love to hear your opinions.

I think this is something we should challenge. Sometimes on challenge in on Reddit's chronic pain subbreddit or there suicide subbreddit. I don't suggest spending a lot of time, but if we all just put our opinion out there - if you wants to - it might plant the seeds against the narrative. Once people see an alternative way of looking at it they might change. I do things like that on YouTube and reddit regarding suicide and religion. If we don't speak up a little and challenge with crazy narrative it probably won't change. Basically it's education. I think we should help educate them, shame them maybe, but at least challenge their nonsense. Same with religion imo.

 

[iLikeFrogs]

I hate hearing these things. "But your pain will pass on to other people" why would I care? Yeah, they'll gonna be sad for a while but they'll forget me, they wouldn't feel shame for every littlest thing they do or want to die for no reason. You don't care that I'm miserable then why would you care about the others?

 

[bunnii]

I just logged on to post about this same sentiment. Almost all the time, people don't actually care about you or helping you feel less miserable, they just don't want their own feelings hurt. And once you're dead it's always "I should've done more!" Always about them them them, never the person actually suffering.

 

[Cloud Busting]

Couldn't agree more. As it is right now, suicide prevention is laughable at best and genuinely harmful at worst. Seeing people in desperate situations where they don't have housing, or money, or they feel betrayed by the system in general is so utterly heartbreaking. This is what suicide prevention should focus on. Working out the means to change and help the root cause, not spit out same old rhetorics we're all used to hearing at this point.

It is a shame that the social work field has evolved to favor a clinical/micro approach. There is a time and a place for such a thing, but you can't therapy away poverty and oppression. Jane Addams would be rolling in her grave.

Community organizing/macro social work still exists, but it's not nearly as prevalent nor as emphasized. It's really a damn shame, especially when you consider that drug addiction is mostly medicalized and not widely viewed as a systemic/public health problem. Massive incarceration results in a permanent underclass that keeps addicts living and working with other addicts. How on earth are they supposed to stay sober? No wonder so many ctb. They aren't rewarded a way out as they are punished with lesser opportunity and mostly told to just abstain and submit to a higher power. Pure bogus.

The entire system needs change. I wish it was something tangible and achievable, but I've lost hope of ever seeing this in my lifetime.

That's understandable. I am hoping to get involved in mental health reform advocacy eventually. It may be a crapshoot, but life itself is aimless, so I might as well engage in something I believe in.

And also, unrelated, but I hope you're doing well on your recovery journey! Wishing you health and all the luck in this world.

Thank you! It is difficult and I would love to just give up most days, but the real challenge is sticking it out and I want to see if I win before I opt out.

I can tell you my journey is being conducted despite the system rather than because of it. I want revenge. You failed me and I'll win. I don't want to lose.

I am as staunchly pro-choice as ever, yet still believe that suicide is a weighty decision that should not be made lightly. I agree with you that the system doesn't give people a chance and that it is unfair for pro-lifers to blame individuals instead.

I will never see suicide as selfish. I will always see those who ctb as victims.

 

[tieiwi]

I agree. It's very tone deaf. For my situation I could care less if my ctb attempt made the people in my life sad. They didn't think twice when they said hurtful things to me, if any of it made me sad. So I hope my ctb is a lesson for them. I hope the sadness they feel because of it (if they will feel any at all) will make them think twice before saying or doing hurtful things to others. Anyway, wishing you peace.

 

[Cloud Busting]

I agree. It's very tone deaf. For my situation I could care less if my ctb attempt made the people in my life sad. They didn't think twice when they said hurtful things to me, if any of it made me sad. So I hope my ctb is a lesson for them. I hope the sadness they feel because of it (if they will feel any at all) will make them think twice before saying or doing hurtful things to others. Anyway, wishing you peace.

My only reason to not ctb is because my reasons for wanting to do so ended up not being true.

I too could care less if I make people sad because it's fucking selfish to not wish someone peace at the expense of their feelings. I mean don't get me wrong. I will soften the blow as much as possible if I do decide to ctb, but people blaming themselves will be inevitable. However, sacrificing my pain for others is tiresome and I'm done with that charade.

I am choosing recovery for me. If anything living vicariously for others and neglecting myself made me want to ctb in the first place.

I personally would never want people who don't deserve it to feel sad, but it's just inevitable and if they truly love me they will understand. However I definitely wanted to spite the people who wronged me b4 my ctb attempt to teach them a lesson. I am admittedly petty.

 

[tieiwi]

My only reason to not ctb is because my reasons for wanting to do so ended up not being true.

I too could care less if I make people sad because it's fucking selfish to not wish someone peace at the expense of their feelings. I mean don't get me wrong. I will soften the blow as much as possible if I do decide to ctb, but people blaming themselves will be inevitable. However, sacrificing my pain for others is tiresome and I'm done with that charade.

I am choosing recovery for me. If anything living vicariously for others and neglecting myself made me want to ctb in the first place.

I personally would never want people who don't deserve it to feel sad, but it's just inevitable and if they truly love me they will understand. However I definitely wanted to spite the people who wronged me b4 my ctb attempt to teach them a lesson. I am admittedly petty.

I wish you all the luck and encouragement during your recovery :) I am petty as well so that makes the two of us.