Venting Isn't this really messed up? [Legal CTB]

[EvilForProfit]

Isn't it really messed up that so many of us are actually serious about ctb yet carrying out the act is so difficult? It's not just a thought it's an actual desire and if it could just happen instantly I would've done it many times, and I would do it right now.

The pain I'm in is so extreme, it feels like there are blades inside of my stomache and my head and I'm not exaggerating, this along with the constant restlessness and emptiness that is impossible to escape, nothing has any meaning or emotional content.

It's just insult to injury to be suffering SO badly where all I want is to ctb every day for 2 years, but in this stupid country I can't even have that. They're so set on making me a wage slave or being in some facility where money is involved somehow, like with everything.

Sadly there are even bigger human rights concerns, but it's really disturbing me right now to think of this big picture that is: all of these people consistently suffering and wanting to ctb but they don't have access to the means to do it, or just the process of uncertainty and doing it alone and when you feel like you're not supposed to just makes the suffering even worse and can prolong it for a long time like in my case.

Sure there are probably many people on here who are not serious and maybe just struggling trying to recover, but I think many are very serious. So I will go with a method that is pretty certain to work, but it may not necessarily be pretty or pleasant.. I will be alone and honestly scared and I could have seizures and convulse around or choke on my own vomit, who knows. I was too scared to do the other methods I have had access too, despite extreme suffering I don't have it in me to do some of these things I just don't and I rather suffer to find a way to go out on my own terms, but lately I've been getting desperate...

Wish I could just go at the damn hospital, I'm an adult and I've wished this for 2 years every single day if not almost every single moment which is more than enough. Life IS a choice, and when it is considered by an adult for such long periods of time you would think our country could just assist the inevitable. I have not used hardly any public resources in this condition, so where the fuck are my taxes going? Surely it's enough to help me ctb maybe they could harvest my organs in return, but no there is no silver lining, compassion or understanding with this, they force us to feel like complete aliens, criminals and misfits this way.

Sorry for the rant, it just seems like if this were a decent planet and species you would be able to legally, peacefully and safely ctb when you are constantly SUFFERING for a long period of time with no hope of getting better, which yes I used to be an optimist but that is the reality for some of us, there's no fucking hope or positive about it, it would at least be nice to go out in a more dignified way. Probably I just sound like I'm complaining.

Technically I could just run out into traffic or jump, but come on I just don't have it in me, it's not because I'm not suffering immensely.. yet because of what I described I'm actually tempted and nearly forced to do something like that, this is my problem. But I am a wuss when it comes to going through with it, even partial terrifies me. It's not death that scares me it's the process, the process of it terrifies me so much but I will just have to do it soon I don't have a choice.

TL;DR: I wish there was a more humane way to ctb.

 

[KatieW]

So sorry for you dear. Medical ctb t's at least legal in some countries and I have resolved to work my way there. The focus seems to give me some hope and relief from torment. Good luck and best wishes here.

 

[LivingToLong]

I can't do much other than agree with you.

I really don't get why there isn't a ctb service available commonly. It shouldn't matter to others WHY anyone wants to ctb. It's your life (perhaps the only thing you can truly say is yours) and so it ought be your call. It's as if you're being forced to stay alive just because some can't handle that fact you want out.

It could be done so simply and humanely too. A local exit clinic, with relevant advice and knowledge, to enable people to pass cleanly. I reckon if such a thing was there, it would in itself be of great comfort and relief and perhaps reduce the number of suicides, of botched attempts. Just knowing that you can do it, if you so desire, would be enough for some.

So why the taboo?

 

[interim]

Well... you must understand that our human life is actually a very fragile thing. A lot of people hate their lives, often chronically. This is why there is so strong stigma. It's not about you, it's about how the whole society perceives life. What keeps us moving, functioning, and frankly... it's really not that much. It's a thin thread. If they give you the right to die officially, who knows what can happen in future - suicide booths?

Remember, the biggest issue in most forums? Discussing ways to die... They want you to not have good ways, too feel bad, disgusted, ashamed. Even to fail, and bring you back as a vegetable, then use you as an example for others. I'm not shocked by this behavior, even the slightest... I know I live in sick society, with no respect for the individual, and it is big part of the reason I want to have nothing to do with it.

I can tell you one thing for sure - there are ways to achieve good death, however you need to put some effort and determination. Doing this as an emotional act, often fails. The best methods for me, are the ones where you deprive the brain from oxygen. This can happen without much violence, either by applying precise pressure on the arteries or by breathing inert gas (like helium). It's also a good idea to not eat/drink before that. Read the resources here, and find the best method for you.

 

[cornflowerblue]

I can't do much other than agree with you.

I really don't get why there isn't a ctb service available commonly. It shouldn't matter to others WHY anyone wants to ctb. It's your life (perhaps the only thing you can truly say is yours) and so it ought be your call. It's as if you're being forced to stay alive just because some can't handle that fact you want out.

It could be done so simply and humanely too. A local exit clinic, with relevant advice and knowledge, to enable people to pass cleanly. I reckon if such a thing was there, it would in itself be of great comfort and relief and perhaps reduce the number of suicides, of botched attempts. Just knowing that you can do it, if you so desire, would be enough for some.

So why the taboo?

A lot of times, people will say that they think ctb should be legal, but don't want to legalize it because of the risk that families would decide grandma costs too much money to maintain, then coerce grandma to ask for ctb and pretend like it's her idea.

 

[LivingToLong]

A lot of times, people will say that they think ctb should be legal, but don't want to legalize it because of the risk that families would decide grandma costs too much money to maintain, then coerce grandma to ask for ctb and pretend like it's her idea.

Yes, I've heard that argument put forward and it doesn't hold water for me. I accept that it might be true for rare, individual cases but insufficient in number to base a law on that impacts on the wishes of a great many more.

That someone wants to kill granny for the money (which is in itself illegal) shouldn't prevent me from my desire to bring an end to my own life.

 

[cornflowerblue]

Yes, I've heard that argument put forward and it doesn't hold water for me. I accept that it might be true for rare, individual cases but insufficient in number to base a law on that impacts on the wishes of a great many more.

That someone wants to kill granny for the money (which is in itself illegal) shouldn't prevent me from my desire to bring an end to my own life.

I agree with you. I was just trying to explain that there are reasons other than stigma and that people may personally be pro-choice but still be against legalized ctb until they trust there are adequate laws in place to protect people from essentially being murdered.

 

[deflagrat]

You are supposed to make suicide as hard as you can in order to avoid killing people who wants to die today but they may not feel that way in 2 years. If suicide was a rational thing (which is some cases it is), it wouldn't be such a problem, but you have a lot of people with mental illness (suicidal thoughts that appear for no reason at all), for example, you see them in suicidewatch or depression subreddits either telling people about their thoughts or trying to make people reconsider suicide. That's why it's only respected in the netherlands and belgium.

 

[LivingToLong]

I guess I just don't get why fallacious arguments against ctb are offered. It suggests to me that people making such arguments know that their sanctity of life rational (or whatever else it is that underpins their pro-life beliefs) is flimsy.

It's my belief that an easily accessible exit centre, making ctb both non-stressful and acceptable, would allow people to really consider the question seriously (i.e. whether they do or they don't want to ctb) knowing that there's no difficulty in procuring the means. It would stop the journeys halfway around the world to perhaps obtain a chemical from a back street vet. It'd stop the botched attempts that result in disability, vegetative states etc. There'd be doctors and counselors to ensure people are making their own decisions, not under duress or pressure, but equally not judging or questioning the decision.

I guess I simply don't get why there is a shame around the decision. Why people find it such an ethical, moral or religious affront. I figure it's my life and my life to end. I shouldn't be forced into continuing it just to appease the beliefs of others.

 

[EvilForProfit]

I guess I just don't get why fallacious arguments against ctb are offered. It suggests to me that people making such arguments know that their sanctity of life rational (or whatever else it is that underpins their pro-life beliefs) is flimsy.

It's my belief that an easily accessible exit centre, making ctb both non-stressful and acceptable, would allow people to really consider the question seriously (i.e. whether they do or they don't want to ctb) knowing that there's no difficulty in procuring the means. It would stop the journeys halfway around the world to perhaps obtain a chemical from a back street vet. It'd stop the botched attempts that result in disability, vegetative states etc. There'd be doctors and counselors to ensure people are making their own decisions, not under duress or pressure, but equally not judging or questioning the decision.

I guess I simply don't get why there is a shame around the decision. Why people find it such an ethical, moral or religious affront. I figure it's my life and my life to end. I shouldn't be forced into continuing it just to appease the beliefs of others.

Exactly... I couldn't have said it any better

 

[Idorus]

I sometimes read stories here which let me think, WTH .. you would make a huge chance here in my country to get 'green light'. At the least in our end of life clinic (which isn't a physical but a mobile clinic, meaning; they visit you at home for all convos and to finally end your life at your own place as well). Yes it does give some degree of comfort to have this privilege in the netherlands. But you have to be 100% sure to knock on their door and IF you truly are then that will hugely increase the chance of getting green light. They will test you big time and even then, a lot are pulling back when gettng the yes-word; they weren't so sure after all despite having won the battle. I truly wish I could help someone being 100% sure by giving them room to reside in. But point is, you have to live here. You don't have to be a dutch citizen but you have to live here and living here means having health insurance which is required for all citizens and will compensate the entire traject to green light. I feel so sorry for not being able to help the truly determined serious minded here but I would if I could. If only... "living here" wouldn't be so complex.

 

[LivingToLong]

But you have to be 100% sure to knock on their door and IF you truly are then that will hugely increase the chance of getting green light. They will test you big time and even then, a lot are pulling back when gettng the yes-word; they weren't so sure after all despite having won the battle.

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. I think that having an easily accessible, readily available, professionally staffed exit service would not mean that all of a sudden loads of people are ctb just because they've had a bad day at the office.

People who are serious about it, have thought about it for years, who know in their hearts that they want to end their lives, would be able to do so and be helped in achieving that desire.

People who are not so sure probably wouldn't even, as you say Idorus, knock on the door. But the important thing to note is that they have not been denied. It is their choice not to go ahead. Choice is a powerful thing. If you know the option is there for you, you relax and focus your decision on the most important aspect - that is, do you want to do it?

Many/most of the threads on this forum are about which method, how successful/dangerous they are, and/or where to get the equipment (drugs, chemicals, etc) Such questions occupy most of the thinking and discussion. Imagine those questions didn't need to be answered. Imagine those decisions are taken for you and are put in a safe environment. Imagine those thoughts are removed from your own decision making process (as they do somewhat cloud it) You then need only to answer the single, and most important, question - do you want to die?

 

[Welcumtotherealworld]

Full suspension can be painless and it's extremely reliable as long as you are not found. You CAN ctb painlessly in your own home, but it would still be nice to just take a pill.

 

[Idorus]

@LivingToLong Very well put, very.