Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
Many people say suicide is always irrational. But is this really always the case? I guess in many cases suicide is irrational, but are there cases where it might be completely rational? And why does society try to keep us desperately alive? Why is suicide still a completely taboo topic in society? And why are suicidal people still treated like criminals in many countries? Does suicide prevention really lower the suicide rate?
 
Saga

Saga

In my memories a smiling me doesn't exist
Jul 20, 2019
175
why does society try to keep us desperately alive? Why is suicide still a completely taboo topic in society? And why are suicidal people still treated like criminals?

for me though it feels like society needs us for money matters...we make money we work we buy things that we dont really need...suicide as a taboo topic is because for me i think they cannot accept the fact that there are people who are like us and theyre all thinking that unicorns and rainbows do exist and theres no darkness in life...which is bs..as for us being treated like criminals its because some religion has brainwashed society to label us as "sinners" and that suicide is a "sin"...fuck isnt it a sin to keep yourself alive when you already want to die??
 
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Pupuce

Pupuce

Nobody exists on purpose. Come ctb
Apr 19, 2019
282
No.
People are just too afraid to admit it or benefit too much from you.
 
Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
I dont think its only about money, especially if youre not even contributing to society. Pro lifers are not that rational.
 
OnlyMercy

OnlyMercy

No More
Oct 23, 2018
190
Suicide is incomprehensible and unfathomable to those who have not endured incomprehensible and unfathomable pain.

It's all a matter of experiences, really.
 
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A

a_strange_day

Arcanist
Jul 16, 2019
461
for me suicide is completely rationnal, I've thought about it my whole life, I took the time to prepare it carefully, I've always known that there would be a day where I couldn't find anything to cope anymore and I made sure to be ready for that moment.

and yes, money is why they keep you alive, dead you worth nothing, alive you worth a lot, but alive and ill you are a gold mine for the system
 
Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
for me suicide is completely rationnal, I've thought about it my whole life, I took the time to prepare it carefully, I've always known that there would be a day where I couldn't find anything to cope anymore and I made sure to be ready for that moment.

and yes, money is why they keep you alive, dead you worth nothing, alive you worth a lot, but alive and ill you are a gold mine for the system

But not only because of money, its because of religious reasons too.
 
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A

a_strange_day

Arcanist
Jul 16, 2019
461
Bitte not only because of money, its because of religious reasons too.

nah, religion is just a tool they use, an excuse to make things seem "honorable" like they invade/destroy others countries to "make the world a safer place"
money is and has always been the key, even more so today, who cares about religion nowadays? I dont even know any religious people around me other than a muslim and my granma who goes to church once a weeks since she knows shes going to die soon :hihi:
 
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Mr2005

Mr2005

Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
Sep 25, 2018
3,622
I think it's very rational in some cases. Jumping out of a window because the milks gone off or something isn't though
 
Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
I think it's very rational in some cases. Jumping out of a window because the milks gone off or something isn't though

But suicide because of blindness? I mean it would be even harder for me to succeed in life.
 
262653

262653

Cluesome
Apr 5, 2018
1,733
Depends on where you draw the the line between reasonable and unreasonable decisions. I don't see how suicide can be unreasonable, as long as it is intentional, done with purpose. Purpose, whatever it is, is a goal and suicide is a chosen way of reaching it, I think. You touch a hot pot (a hot part) and reflexively withdraw your hand. Would that be intentional action because it seems to be done with a purpose (in retrospect), or unintentional because you didn't seem to make a conscious decision (for whatever goal, presumably to avoid pain)?

Can reasoning be performed unconsciously (without you noticing it)? Or does it require acknowledgement from conscious side to be reasonable? I wish I could express myself more elaborately, but I can't get rid of a feeling that it does... I'm not into science or disciplines or whatever, feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong. Reasonable, logical decision is made by a specific set of principles/rules/algorithms. Can these principles/rules/algorithms be stored (Let's say you know laws of logic perfectly, whatever they are. Then over the next few minutes you don't think of them, then you recall them, all at once or one by one, doesn't matter right now. How, where, in what form, in what dimension were they? That's how.) somewhere under the water (visible) level and used habitually? Think of a word "lake". What words rhyme with that word? There are whole flock of words that you may know, that you could match and ask yourself if they are rhymed. But somehow you find at least one with relative swiftness... I feel like getting off on a tangent here. Can suicide as a decision be reasonable? Depends on what goal is being set, I guess. (And maybe also, whether or not such decision is based on premises which are proven/confirmed to be true, which begs to discern what evidence is sufficient to acknowledge these premises as true, but I think it's not necessary.) If you want to die because you think you are constantly suffering, your goal is not to suffer, and you believe that death is a pathway to this goal, then yeah, sounds reasonable for me. Not always irrational.

Ok, blue toothpaste is over; I'm surfacing immediately. It's kind of amusing how questions about human behavior usually have personal interest (pain/pleasure, feel good/bad hormones included) in a background, or habitual, automatic actions, because we can't afford to question everything, so we go with status quo.

And why does society try to keep us desperately alive?
Taxes, belief in preciousness of every human life, local laws and their enforcement, experiments on living humans, exercise of power and control, religion, attachment...

Why is suicide still a completely taboo topic in society?
Challenges the notion of life as inherently valuable, cultural programming, tradition, religion. For me again seems to boil down to either concern with personal benefit, or habits, or mixed. Evolutional habits (tradition, habits passed down by survivors). Lack of mental capacity to process suicide. Our brains may be too busy surviving to allocate some free space on questioning things. As a result we resort to simplified explanations to things. Forced to choose denial over acceptance.

And why are suicidal people still treated like criminals in many countries?
Both are viewed as more harmful than beneficial. We don't like things and people that are harmful, and want to stay away from their influence. Suicidal people spread harmful thoughts, they get quarantined until they stop expressing suicidality. Probably my imagination had played out.

Does suicide prevention really lower the suicide rate?
I haven't seen the stats but I believe it does. People die from other means instead, die from medical intervention, get drugged and die from collapse of vital systems (if people feel shitty, suffer and want to die, there might be a damn good reason involved, like withering away without realizing it's not just in our heads), denied the means (info, tools, substances) of peaceful methods, denied assisted suicide for those who aren't capable of doing it themselves (the way we have with surgery, fire extinguishing, attorney services, etc.)
 
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