Discussion Is prohibiting suicide an attempt to sustain equality?

[Forever Sleep]

By this- I mean: I think some people who are the strongest advocates of suicide prevention possibly view this life as more utopian than it actually is.

In terms of- people with either physical or mental ilness shouldn't need to commit suicide because- we should have the resources to cure them and give them a decent quality of life. To value them. Same goes for people struggling financially. That- as a society, there should be enough money accumulated to support them. I think it's largely wishful thinking that everyone can be helped and treated well.

I also worry there's almost a need for people to be struggling but stay alive. Because- that creates enough need that is harder to ignore. One person needing wheelchair facilities is going to be easier to fob off than 100 people needing those facilities. There's the economic side to that to. Think how much money pharmaceuticals and healthcare generates. How many jobs it creates.

It's sort of like the argument against eugenics of any extent. By 'weeding' out 'weaker' tendencies- and even illness- wouldn't we be promoting a society that demands perfection and high functioning? Would it also create in us less humanity and kindness?

I think there is a genuine concern with things like MAiD- that it could in fact be used to try to push those possibly considered less desirable and less profitable (the sick, elderly, homeless, criminal) towards choosing suicide themselves, eg. If their benefits are cut right back. I think society at large is afraid that too greater freedom to euthanize its citizens will allow our governments to become even more fascist and corrupt.

Sometimes I think people are trapped here suffering just so our societies and individuals can virtue signal that- at least they're still alive. Of course, if they can actually be provided with a decent quality of life then- that's great. What if they can't though? I wonder how many have to suffer so that society can believe it did the 'right thing'. Even if it isn't necessarily the 'right thing' for that individual.

That we don't go around murdering people who are inconvenient or at least- that we (supposedly) don't push them into wanting to die to begin with. But of course- we do.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Dante_]

Sometimes I think people are trapped here suffering just so our societies and individuals can virtue signal that- at least they're still alive. Of course, if they can actually be provided with a decent quality of life then- that's great. What if they can't though?

I think at some point, i knew a life worth living and sustained by a consistent quality of life was impossible for society to achieve so yes, I think rather than that, people have relegated themselves to stating that as long as people are alive no matter how awful their state of being is, thats good as long as they are alive but at what cost I say?

What good does it do to keep people to be used for any sort of suffering if it can't be helped to amend it? What does that say, at large, about society's need for these people to keep living, not because theres a chance improve for them but rather, magnifies the absurd unfairness of life.

 

[UserFromNowhere]

Society prohibiting suicide could be a genuine attempt to sustain equality, as you do allude to, or at least a superficial equality even if not everyone can be provided with an equal quality of life.

I don't believe governments should be able to execute people, but I feel MAiD and other programs fall outside the guidelines of that despite the moral crusading across social media that it is tantamount to state‑sanctioned murder. MAiD and other programs have largely only been instituted in countries (and states) which enjoy generally greater freedom. By contrast, places where MAiD doesn't exist tend to be more repressive and utilize tools such as the death penalty, which is genuinely state‑sanctioned murder at the opposite end of the spectrum for the purposes of appeasing the whims of the state apparatus.

MAiD is principally dependent on a person's own desire to die rather than being forced into it. Any attempt to pervert this (for example, the husband in Canada who got his wife euthanized despite her wishes to live) should be seen as that: the system working unjustly, improperly, and against its purported use where all who were complicit in undermining the system should be charged. At least, however, the people who apply for MAiD do want to die, as opposed to places with the death penalty where prisoners don't have a choice and some of them are wholly innocent but a system which was corrupted refused to be lenient.

It is for this reason that I believe the death penalty should be opposed, but MAiD should be honored, despite the flaws in the system. In the case of the death penalty, the fundamental basis of the system itself is broken by arguing the state itself should be allowed to determine whether a person should be killed by the state as punishment for crimes, whereas in the case of MAiD, although it could be seen as flawed in the respect that the state is still determining who lives and dies, the ultimate concern is up to the autonomy of the individual person themselves rather than being classed by the state's own determination in enacting its own desire.

 

[cluefixphantom]

All the rich leaders and labor-wage-slaves in this system are anything but kind and humane imo. They have simply turned it into a business to create and exploit vulnerability. And they push their own co-workers even toward suicide, if they become too slow, too ugly... They dgaf.

To this day, I receive no real help and have at most only 560 euros a month to survive, but they also want to cut this off. I'm without any practical support or even the basic things that make life worth living.

I have also been seriously mistreated, especially by nurses, the police, and social workers, and help is actively being denied to me. I am disabled and female, born into poverty, have only lived in Germany, where I was born, within an environment that is filled with many conservative/liberal people. They set the norm and hold the power. And I don't see Psychotherapism as a form of help, after what I find out and saw and what they did to me and others. It is a method of oppression and exploitation. They have simply kept me and others in vulnerable situations dependent and in need. They use manipulation and outright violence for everyone to see and traumatize vulnerable humans, like other labor-wage-slaves in other industries.
They push you to be a pig, towards CTB.

It's all just an industry when you look around and see the people working within the system–they are like termites or parasites that only empower the bigger parasite, or like cancer cells. I would never actively support something like that. Once you see the kind of people you're dealing with, you realize it's all about competition, and there is no humanity. They are often not curious, except to gossip, and compassion is completely absent in them. Many are malevolent towards me only because they find me ugly.

The reason these industries (including justice system is another industry) have been able to grow so much is because of a lack of compassion. It starts with the people who bring new generations into this world and there are many of them, they act like flies.

It would be a good step if one could simply buy pentobarbital legally at an store, but the authorities refuse this only because of money and lack of compassion. Same with abortion, sterilization, giving poor people basic income, protection of children...
The majority wants to exploit, and produce more suffering. That's their business. It was already bad under Hitler and before him, but today it is even worse–their exploitation became more efficient and many oppressed go willingly today to the TheRapist or try to get a job and feel proud to be a good labor-wage-slave in the system.

I believe they will never make life-ending medications legally available for everyone. The medical industry thrives on regulations; everything has been restricted. I can't access many prescription medications, for example, because I don't even have a doctor. And for everything you need a prescription. There is no reason why these people have so much power while others are left to suffer and have nothing to say, and no access to ressources they need.