Discussion Intelligence/ IQ & suicide...

[MeltingHeart]

I can see there are old threads on this topic, which I will read later...but seeing as there likely to be new members no harm in a new thread. I am interested in the correlation between intelligence and/ or IQ (I feel this is something of a limiting assessment of intelligence as it is based on a standardised test- and does not include factors such as emotional intelligence etc.) and suicide. I am being told I am intelligent enough & therefore should not be thinking that suicide is the answer & that I know for sure therapy won't help me now- therefore they are suggesting my desire to die is essentially a 'dumb' choice - which actually if so undermines the fact they think I have 'intelligence' anyway. But I can't help but disagree. Plenty of people with high intelligence & of sound mind ctb; scientists, doctors, intellectuals, writers, artists etc etc. This having a huge breakdown my mental capacity is declining rapidly - in short- I feel stupider by the day. However I would say that what does remain of my dwindling intelligence & intellectual capacity is EXACTLY what makes me know that ctb is the best choice now- I am thinking clearly & rationally about it- of that I am certain, it is my capacity to recognise & accept that I simply can't have anything like the life I wished for myself now that makes me want to die- yet they insists that if I was using my intelligence- I would want to get get better & could see that there is a way to 'get better' whereas I think they are 'stupid' (or maybe just in denial) for thinking this - and it is what little that is left of my good cognition that had made me realise it is the best option for now...

 

[Are you lost too?]

I totally relate because I am also told that I am very intelligent and should quickly feel better and this is just a bad phase and that I need patience bla bla bla.

I read you think therapy won't try, but have you tried it? If not why do you think it won't work? And what about antidepressants?

I think that high iq people suicide becaus that they can see clearly the bitter reality of life. And as racional people they weight the pros and the cons and see that the cons are much more than the pros ...

I think it is the ability to realize what life really is. Most people go on living because they don't think too much about it. They're too distracted.

Smart pants aren't.

I don't know. That's my opinion. For me, much because of the education I received, I had these huge expectations for life and for myself and now i realize they are impossible to fulfill, because life is a bitch. This makes me feel really miserable and hate myself. I see this is not gonna chang. I also see what life has to offer and honestly it stinks. So why the hell spend so many more years in suffering when I can just go now.

 

[MeltingHeart]

It's so strange that people think you are intelligent - therefore you shouldn't want to ctb! As if that will suddenly imbue you with some 'deeper insight' on finding a way out of yr problems & being able to make the life you wish you could of had-it doesn't work like that - I feel like intelligence in some ways makes you a realist - in that you can see things as they really are- see through bullshit & surface stuff that has no meaning. Mild anti-ds used to help but now much stronger ones do nothing- I believe this is because I do not have clinical depression- but rather despair, profound regret & utter loss of hope due to all that has happened to me- which even the psychiatrist admitted - medication can not really help that. Therapy will it help- I believe it would have in the past- but I was never offered it- and now I simply have had enough- I have no wish to "talk" to anyone anymore - I'm just done! My problem was that I do believe I had an a fairly high level of innate intelligence- a quick& deep thinker, a questioning mind with a thirst for knowledge - but I have never really been able to use, engage, harness or exploit this to my full capacity - due to just having to survive and get by in life - therefore I have always been left with a huge amount of intellectual frustration, a deep sense of being unfulfilled & in turn anxiety- it's too late to rectify now. Sometimes I wish I could have been dumber to enjoy a simple (boring even) existence- but I always wanted & needed so much more. It's just too late now. It sounds bitchy to say- but sometimes when I see other people lives that seem so basic & surface- I'm surprised they don't want to ctb. But that is just me projecting my own sense of needing, wanting & missing out a much richer cultural & intellectual life. It is the smart side of my brain that is telling me I need to end it. It's considered all that life has been and that it could be & I don't like the conclusion for myself. Simply as that.

 

[Lethe]

High IQ usually means you're introspective, think deeply about things, and see things realistically like others have said. I've searched for answers, studied Biology in college, as well as philosophy, natural history, physics and metaphysics in my free time. Eventually you get frustrated at the lack of answers, and despair at the absurdity and cold indifference of the universe... You tie your brain into knots thinking and overthinking things, going down rabbitholes that either lead nowhere or reveal unpleasant/ deeply distressing truths about existence. And somehow intelligence is supposed to make you happy...? They don't say "ignorance is bliss" for no reason.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I think intelligence isn't necessarily always the enemy of happiness (or I would rather use contentment, meaning & fulfilment as a goal- as I think that is more important in life - punctuated with 'moments' of happiness - I would have no despire to be 'happy' ALL of the time- as that borders on the delusional in my mind) anyway I think it CAN lead to or result in a rich life with meaning if it used & harnessed in the right way - and if you have somewhere to channel it- if you do not have that- I believe this is where a lot of existential angst and profound lack of meaning with frustration can stem from-I'm pretty sure this is why I had severe insomnia that caused my breakdown.

 

[Heart of Ice]

I have read about this and I remember that suicidal thoughts are more common on the ends of the IQ spectrum (so low and high IQ). Google search gives me more articles warning about suicide risk on the lower ends.

I wouldn't start thinking about your own IQ. It leads either to a massive superiority complex or an inferiority complex. That has been my experience anyway.

 

[Hollow men]

I have high IQ and I think it makes it easier to consider suicide. In fact, I have two friends who are extremely intelligent and they're also considering to ctb. I would say it depends on if your reasons to ctb are rational or emotional. If they are logical or philosophical reasons, high IQ may be associated with suicidal tendencies, as you are able to think outside the traditional moral values of society. In my case, I always loved reading Camus and Nietszche, and even when I had no mental issues at all I had the logical conviction that life has no value for itself, but for what you do with it. So... if the circunstances of your life don't allow you to be happy ,and you can't change them, killing yourself is a rational path to take. As Socrates said: "Death is not a defeat, Death is the cure."

 

[Are you lost too?]

It sounds bitchy to say- but sometimes when I see other people lives that seem so basic & surface- I'm surprised they don't want to ctb.

and therapy takes a long time and you do need to be invested in it for it to work. I understand what you mean.

I don't think it's bitchy at all... and I also think that all the time. I'm always wondering how people get the will to go on when life in general is so messed up, and to a certain extent, pointless.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I have read about this and I remember that suicidal thoughts are more common on the ends of the IQ spectrum (so low and high IQ). Google search gives me more articles warning about suicide risk on the lower ends.

I wouldn't start thinking about your own IQ. It leads either to a massive superiority complex or an inferiority complex. That has been my experience anyway.

Not too worried about it-I just think it plays a factor in me wanting to ctb- as I have never fufilled my potential, always wanting to explore and enrich my mind and to be able to apply my brain power towards something that was stimulating, engaging and satisfying as an occupation. Now its too late.

 

[CFLoser]

Stupid people are more miserable.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Stupid people are more miserable.

I cant agree with this. I am sure some are though. I suppose its a very subjective thing. But they do say ignorance is bliss- which isnt an entirely accurate phase to use in this case- as it normally applies to one specific situation of which you dont know an unpleasant fact. But I sure think some stupid people seem rather blissfullys happy and rather untroubled by things.

 

[Throwawaysoul]

I feel I'm smart enough to know I'm stupid. I just want to be completely blissfully ignorant of the world around me.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I feel I'm smart enough to know I'm stupid. I just want to be completely blissfully ignorant of the world around me.

yeah that middle ground is the worst-i'm smart enough to feel my intellience ebbing away and feel the stupidness take over, same with my sanity and my happiness- like would being completely kind of mad feel ok?, as you wouldnt realise it, youd only notice it is you just becoming unravelled over time.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

High IQ usually means you're introspective, think deeply about things, and see things realistically like others have said. I've searched for answers, studied Biology in college, as well as philosophy, natural history, physics and metaphysics in my free time. Eventually you get frustrated at the lack of answers, and despair at the absurdity and cold indifference of the universe... You tie your brain into knots thinking and overthinking things, going down rabbitholes that either lead nowhere or reveal unpleasant/ deeply distressing truths about existence. And somehow intelligence is supposed to make you happy...? They don't say "ignorance is bliss" for no reason.

This. Just read Genesis in the Bible. It explains it in wonderful allegory. Not that I'm religious mind but the bible is an interesting read.

 

[MeltingHeart]

This. Just read Genesis in the Bible. It explains it in wonderful allegory. Not that I'm religious mind but the bible is an interesting read.

That's interesting - what inspired you to pick it up & read it even though non- religious - curiosity/ see what it's all about?

 

[Deleted member 1465]

That's interesting - what inspired you to pick it up & read it even though non- religious - curiosity/ see what it's all about?

Catholic schooling

 

[MeltingHeart]

Catholic schooling

Ahh I see- I went to one for a brief spell - the nuns where evil& mean!

 

[Lethe]

Catholic schooling

I grew up in a Methodist private school from K-12, hated how backwards they were... Probably stunted my development tbh.

Why Genesis though? You mean seeking forbidden knowledge and getting kicked out of paradise as a result?

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Ahh I see- I went to one for a brief spell - the nuns where evil& mean!

Nuns! Feck! Arse!

I grew up in a Methodist private school from K-12, hated how backwards they were... Probably stunted my development tbh.

Why Genesis though? You mean seeking forbidden knowledge and getting kicked out of paradise as a result?

Yeah. The concept of original sin. We were in paradise in our ignorance then the serpent persuaded Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. It all went tits up from there. Intelligence is humanity 's greatest strength and greatest weakness.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Nuns! Feck! Arse!
Ha! we snuck a peak into their dining room and they lived in luxury! whilst we had to slum it and eat shit food. I dont know if this is false memory but im sure one of the shouted at me once that I was devil worshipper! I definitely remember being severly reprimanded for 1) telling ghost stories 2) I had a really lame sex education book I showed to some of the others- I was made to just stand up at the end of my bed for hours in the night (it was a boarding school)

Yeah. The concept of original sin. We were in paradise in our ignorance then the serpent persuaded Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. It all went tits up from there. Intelligence is humanity 's greatest strength and greatest weakness.

 

[SoupSnakes]

I don't agree that intelligence/IQ has anything to do with it. There's a multitude of reasons people choose to CTB, those kinds of things don't discriminate (depression, etc).

I imagine that lack of intelligence/IQ might go towards it; for example doing poorly in school, not getting qualifications, failing to work, not being able to access healthcare etc. But then I also think that those people can be some of the most resourceful.

All you have to do is think back to all the people in the public eye who have committed suicide who are of high intelligence.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I don't agree that intelligence/IQ has anything to do with it. There's a multitude of reasons people choose to CTB, those kinds of things don't discriminate (depression, etc).

I imagine that lack of intelligence/IQ might go towards it; for example doing poorly in school, not getting qualifications, failing to work, not being able to access healthcare etc. But then I also think that those people can be some of the most resourceful.

All you have to do is think back to all the people in the public eye who have committed suicide who are of high intelligence.

Yes indeed- I wonder if the reasons are different - say for example - existential angst/ a philosophical despair of life vs struggling to thrive & in turn to make ends meet etc.

 

[CFLoser]

People have a very warped view of "intelligence" thinking it just correlates to IQ.

The people who seem the smartest about specific things (autism) usually don't know themselves even remotely well.

 

[MeltingHeart]

People have a very warped view of "intelligence" thinking it just correlates to IQ.

The people who seem the smartest about specific things (autism) usually don't know themselves even remotely well.

Know i agree intelligence and IQ are not exactly the same thing, I was kind of loath to include in in my OP but just used it as v.basic assessment of 'intelligent' criteria. I dont know much about how autism works-but it does seem people can be v.clever and v.insightful on certain subjects-id be interested to know how and when the diagnosis first came about- and who 'discovered' it.

 

[Final Escape]

People have a very warped view of "intelligence" thinking it just correlates to IQ.

The people who seem the smartest about specific things (autism) usually don't know themselves even remotely well.

I kinda thought it was the same thing lol! Oh u mean that if u have low emotional IQ. IQ will determine how successful u are in certain fields. They always try to say that u can be anything u want that u put your mind to. Not if u have a very low iq like 70 or 80 you're not lol!

 

[TAW122]

I believe that people with high IQ would be more inclined to question and be skeptical of things, including existence and whether life has a meaning/is worth living. With that said, on that same limb, it is not far-fetched to say that because higher IQ people are more intelligent that they also see the world for what it is and know about the concept of death. Also, when it comes to high intelligence, therapy is much less effective because those with high intelligence have the ability of self introspection and are more than capable of seeing their decision and it's effects (as well as thoroughly reasoning through their choice of CTB'ing). If anything, I think that it's people who have lower IQ's who tend not to question the status quo, would take therapy at face value, and lack self-introspection on themselves (again not all, but just in general).

 

[Lethe]

I kinda thought it was the same thing lol! Oh u mean that if u have low emotional IQ. IQ will determine how successful u are in certain fields. They always try to say that u can be anything u want that u put your mind to. Not if u have a very low iq like 70 or 80 you're not lol!

Yeah, it's called EQ (emotional intelligence)

I believe that people with high IQ would be more inclined to question and be skeptical of things, including existence and whether life has a meaning/is worth living. With that said, on that same limb, it is not far-fetched to say that because higher IQ people are more intelligent that they also see the world for what it is and know about the concept of death. Also, when it comes to high intelligence, therapy is much less effective because those with high intelligence have the ability of self introspection and are more than capable of seeing their decision and it's effects (as well as thoroughly reasoning through their choice of CTB'ing). If anything, I think that it's people who have lower IQ's who tend not to question the status quo, would take therapy at face value, and lack self-introspection on themselves (again not all, but just in general).

Yes! This perfectly describes my interactions with my last therapist. I would use logical arguments against her whenever I noticed her using empty platitudes and she did not like it AT ALL. One time she even started crying, I guess because she deemed me a lost cause, or made her think about unpleasant truths.

 

[Whitewash11235814]

I came close to maxing out WAIS. I think I didn't because of ceiling-effect.