im a sociopath

[okyeah]

anyone else fit the description

1. Doesn't respect social norms or laws. They consistently break laws or overstep social boundaries.
2. Lies, deceives others, uses false identities or nicknames, and uses others for personal gain.
3. Doesn't make any long-term plans. They also often behave without thinking of consequences.
4. Shows aggressive or aggravated behavior. They consistently get into fights or physically harm others.
5. Doesn't consider their own safety or the safety of others.
6. Doesn't follow up on personal or professional responsibilities. This can include repeatedly being late to work or not paying bills on time.
7. Doesn't feel guilt or remorse for having harmed or mistreated others.

 

[Chinaski]

This is PCL-R material. It must be remembered that there are 20 items on this tool and psychopathy is rated on a scale and comprising various domains, it's not binary, but a score of 30 is generally considered psychopathic.

With that in mind, one could have a PCLR score of 23, and not be diagnosable as a psychopath, but is clearly higher on the scale than someone with a score of 5. How much you read into this is up to you, but I'd consider it unwise to assess yourself with a clinical tool in this way as your baseline will be skewed, either negatively or positively. It's also my opinion that self-assessment is often done in relation to how we see ourselves in relation to others, and this is going to be flawed a hundred percent of the time.

The consistent theme is a lack of empathy, but in 2019 it's fair to say we over-emote, performatively weep, affect genuine emotion and are subject to criticism when we don't join in. I give you the nationally orchestrated grief for Princess Diana as an example of this. One can show love to their fellow man in the form of simple common decency, and this can often mean simply leaving him the fuck alone. Much of the "empathy" we see is dishonest, and providing you're not an utterly nasty piece of work, a few unpleasant personality traits are just that, and shouldn't be given a pejorative label which suggests something more sinister.

 

[okyeah]

This is PCL-R material. It must be remembered that there are 20 items on this tool and psychopathy is rated on a scale and comprising various domains, it's not binary, but a score of 30 is generally considered psychopathic.

With that in mind, one could have a PCLR score of 23, and not be diagnosable as a psychopath, but is clearly higher on the scale than someone with a score of 5. How much you read into this is up to you, but I'd consider it unwise to assess yourself with a clinical tool in this way as your baseline will be skewed, either negatively or positively. It's also my opinion that self-assessment is often done in relation to how we see ourselves in relation to others, and this is going to be flawed a hundred percent of the time.

The consistent theme is a lack of empathy, but in 2019 it's fair to say we over-emote, performatively weep, affect genuine emotion and are subject to criticism when we don't join in. I give you the nationally orchestrated grief for Princess Diana as an example of this. One can show love to their fellow man in the form of simple common decency, and this can often mean simply leaving him the fuck alone. Much of the "empathy" we see is dishonest, and providing you're not an utterly nasty piece of work, a few unpleasant personality traits are just that, and shouldn't be given a pejorative label which suggests something more sinister.

i wonder if there is a test i could take to get a better idea.

Since I have failed at keeping relationships and a job and I fit the description given so closely it would appear that i am a diagnosable sociopath. I guess if i just broke the law it would put me into the red zone and id be officially classified that way. Most of us here are probably mentally "wrong" in a certain way because we are not happy with our lives.

I agree though. A lot of it is bullshit. There's more factors at play here.

 

[Chinaski]

To be honest, l wouldn't bother. If you already know what your worst traits are, you don't need a label. Just acknowledge them and manage them.

We're at a stage now where people are getting very trigger-happy with the DSM from the comfort of their armchairs and there is a common need to seek a comforting, or even damaging diagnostic criteria which explains how they see themselves in relation to others. These things are also used by shitbags to excuse their own shitty behaviour quite often too.

 

[Rollo]

So do you actually consistently get into fights, act without considering your own safety, physically and otherwise harm others without being remorseful and guilty about it? It's just people here who are suicidal for mental reasons are usually the opposite - they believe in non-violence and being nice and are anxious about their safety.

 

[Chinaski]

It's just people here who are suicidal for mental reasons are usually the opposite - they believe in non-violence and being nice and are anxious about their safety.

This is corny and mawkish.

There are many legitimate reasons for being suicidal, it's not the preserve of nice people; besides which, common features of psychopathy often include a failure to connect, a terminal boredom, emptiness and anhedonia, all contributors to suicidal tendencies. Psychopathy is not a binary, and people who "get into fights" are still very capable of being suicidal. Similarly, not everyone on this forum is nice and with pure and noble intent.

 

[JustAboutDone]

This is corny and mawkish.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with corny and mawkish. In fact a little more corny and mawkish would make the world a better place

 

[Chinaski]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with corny and mawkish. In fact a little more corny and mawkish would make the world a better place

When it's false, or based on an untruth, it does the opposite.

 

[JustAboutDone]

Psychopathy is not a binary, and people who "get into fights" are still very capable of being suicidal. Similarly, not everyone on this forum is nice and with pure and noble intent.

Sadly, from bitter experience of knowing one, I concur this is true

 

[okyeah]

So do you actually consistently get into fights, act without considering your own safety, physically and otherwise harm others without being remorseful and guilty about it? It's just people here who are suicidal for mental reasons are usually the opposite - they believe in non-violence and being nice and are anxious about their safety.

most people do not want to fight me because i am an athletic, tall person with a weird babyface. It mostly confuses them.

I don't want to talk in detail about antisocial things I've done but I fit the description. I have a lot of contempt and hostility that I have to quench a lot.

I also read that people with antisocial personality disorder are more likely to commit suicide, which makes sense for me. I need my fucking N to get here lol. It's over for me.

 

[Rollo]

This is corny and mawkish.

There are many legitimate reasons for being suicidal, it's not the preserve of nice people; besides which, common features of psychopathy often include a failure to connect, a terminal boredom, emptiness and anhedonia, all contributors to suicidal tendencies. Psychopathy is not a binary, and people who "get into fights" are still very capable of being suicidal. Similarly, not everyone on this forum is nice and with pure and noble intent.

Well I haven't yet met one here. So I'm not being corny or mawkish or whatever. I'm just relaying what I'm seeing. If there are those who do believe in violence, in harming others and in acting without consideration for their safety - they're certainly not making their voice heard.

 

[JustAboutDone]

To be honest, l wouldn't bother. If you already know what your worst traits are, you don't need a label. Just acknowledge them and manage them.

This is so apt and totally applicable especially with the appalling way current psychiatry is headed, which is to label everything as a "personality disorder"
So then mental health services get let off the hook as PD are supposedly 'untreatable' and people can be conveniently labelled as such.

 

[Chinaski]

I also read that people with antisocial personality disorder are more likely to commit suicide, which makes sense for me. I need my fucking N to get here lol. It's over for me.

I'm not sure where you read that about ASPD and suicide but, whilst ASPD is commonly conflated with psychopathy, it's a type of psychopathy, a common one, but not psychopathy as a whole. It's very common also for psychopaths to be diagnosed with a co-morbidity, often Borderline, frequently Narcissistic, even Schizoid gets a look in, to describe and understand the type of psychopathy in more depth as each individual case is very different.

You may also wish to consider how much of it you see as being a mental health issue in a treatable sense and how much you see as being simply personality makeup. I'll use Trump as the obvious example here, because you can barely move for armchair DSM acolytes dishing out the quasi-diagnostic drivel there. Yes, he's narcissistic, callous, manipulative, superficially charming when it serves his interests, all the DSM stuff certainly applies here, but is he mentally ill? Or is the guy just a fucking arsehole?

 

[ReadyasEver]

Trump is not mentally ill, he's completely self serving. I've never liked the the labeling and diagnostic tools for a sociopath. They generalize way too much, and leading to way too much "armchair" reactions as Chinaski says without taking into context each individual's particular circumstance.

 

[okyeah]

I'm not sure where you read that about ASPD and suicide but, whilst ASPD is commonly conflated with psychopathy, it's a type of psychopathy, a common one, but not psychopathy as a whole. It's very common also for psychopaths to be diagnosed with a co-morbidity, often Borderline, frequently Narcissistic, even Schizoid gets a look in, to describe and understand the type of psychopathy in more depth as each individual case is very different.

You may also wish to consider how much of it you see as being a mental health issue in a treatable sense and how much you see as being simply personality makeup. I'll use Trump as the obvious example here, because you can barely move for armchair DSM acolytes dishing out the quasi-diagnostic drivel there. Yes, he's narcissistic, callous, manipulative, superficially charming when it serves his interests, all the DSM stuff certainly applies here, but is he mentally ill? Or is the guy just a fucking arsehole?

http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/0021-843X.110.3.462

"H. Cleckley (1976) maintained that psychopaths are relatively immune to suicide, but substantial evidence exists for a relationship between antisocial deviance and suicidal acts."

Yes i am likely co-morbid with narcissism and schizotypal as my mom is schizophrenic and i have extreme bouts of apathy.

your trump example is a good point. I suppose it has come down to:

1. I don't want to live and am going to kill myself
2. I match the traits as specified by the DSM for these disorders
3. That is the disorder that is creating havoc in my life

Donald trump has been privileged enough to do whatever he wants so he doesn't need a diagnosis lol.

Are you a sociopath chinaski?

 

[JustAboutDone]

anyone else fit the description

1. Doesn't respect social norms or laws. They consistently break laws or overstep social boundaries.
2. Lies, deceives others, uses false identities or nicknames, and uses others for personal gain.
3. Doesn't make any long-term plans. They also often behave without thinking of consequences.
4. Shows aggressive or aggravated behavior. They consistently get into fights or physically harm others.
5. Doesn't consider their own safety or the safety of others.
6. Doesn't follow up on personal or professional responsibilities. This can include repeatedly being late to work or not paying bills on time.
7. Doesn't feel guilt or remorse for having harmed or mistreated others.

I think anyone who has grown up in a terrible environment with no boundaries and had no sense of self can behave and feel one or all of these things at any one time.

Hurt, anger, betrayal, lashing out, not giving a fcuk, that sort of thing are, dare I say? totally understandable emotionally and physical responses. I don't think they define the person until that person has gone through much of their life say forty, fifty years wreaking havoc, tormenting people etc with not a care in the world.

Human beings have enormous capacity for change - that's why I don't go with psych diagnostic labelling and I think self diagnosing is dodgy territory.

Only my opinion so don't hit me with a spade.

 

[okyeah]

I think anyone who has grown up in a terrible environment with no boundaries and had no sense of self can behave and feel one or all of these things at any one time.

Hurt, anger, betrayal, lashing out, not giving a fcuk, that sort of thing are, dare I say? totally understandable emotionally and physical responses. I don't think they define the person until that person has gone through much of their life say forty, fifty years wreaking havoc, tormenting people etc with not a care in the world.

Human beings have enormous capacity for change - that's why I don't go with psych diagnostic labelling and I think self diagnosing is dodgy territory.

Only my opinion so don't hit me with a spade.

Unfortunately I have been being "myself" for a decent amount of time now and i have come out the end of the educational system and college with a miserable life. All this while meeting people and trying to "be myself". There is clearly something wrong with me. I like your attitude about the labeling. I am extremely bitter now though. I have basically ruined my life and the system is putting me where I deserve. I'd rather die at this point than attempt to fix my life.

 

[Chinaski]

http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/0021-843X.110.3.462

"H. Cleckley (1976) maintained that psychopaths are relatively immune to suicide, but substantial evidence exists for a relationship between antisocial deviance and suicidal acts."

Yes i am likely co-morbid with narcissism and schizotypal as my mom is schizophrenic and i have extreme bouts of apathy.

your trump example is a good point. I suppose it has come down to:

1. I don't want to live and am going to kill myself
2. I match the traits as specified by the DSM for these disorders
3. That is the disorder that is creating havoc in my life

Donald trump has been privileged enough to do whatever he wants so he doesn't need a diagnosis lol.

Are you a sociopath chinaski?

Here's the thing; it strikes me as if the disorder, which you've self-diagnosed, is seen by you as an illness imposed upon you, rather than a collection of personality traits. Saying "the disorder creates the havoc" is a way of relieving yourself of the responsibility for your own behaviours. As touched upon above, many people find these labels comforting as an excuse for, well, shitty behaviour and in turn become fatalistic about it. You're not Aesop's scorpion, it's definitely not in your interests to self-diagnose as this will do more harm than good imo.

Re Trump, you're quite correct; often the difference between a psychopath on Wall Street and a psychopath in Broadmoor is post code at birth. The worst elements of hyper-capitalism encourage psychopathic traits and in order to adapt to a capitalist society it often helps to stifle and suppress more natural and gentler impulses, but that's a whole new discussion and would derail.

I don't know if I'm a psychopath, since you asked. I doubt it very, very much. But l do have many shit personality traits that have not only held me back in life but have hurt and upset others a great deal too, just like you do, and most other people do too.

 

[Rollo]

most people do not want to fight me because i am an athletic, tall person with a weird babyface. It mostly confuses them.

I don't want to talk in detail about antisocial things I've done but I fit the description.

I also read that people with antisocial personality disorder are more likely to commit suicide, which makes sense for me. I need my fucking N to get here lol. It's over for me.

Ok but what about anxiety? Not a problem for you?

 

[okyeah]

Here's the thing; it strikes me as if the disorder, which you've self-diagnosed, is seen by you as an illness imposed upon you, rather than a collection of personality traits. Saying "the disorder creates the havoc" is a way of relieving yourself of the responsibility for your own behaviours. As touched upon above, many people find these labels comforting as an excuse for, well, shitty behaviour and in turn become fatalistic about it. You're not Aesop's scorpion, it's definitely not in your interests to self-diagnose as this will do more harm than good imo.

Re Trump, you're quite correct; often the difference between a psychopath on Wall Street and a psychopath in Broadmoor is post code at birth. The worst elements of hyper-capitalism encourage psychopathic traits and in order to adapt to a capitalist society it often helps to stifle and suppress more natural and gentler impulses, but that's a whole new discussion and would derail.

I don't know if I'm a psychopath, since you asked. I doubt it very, very much. But l do have many shit personality traits that have not only held me back in life but have hurt and upset others a great deal too, just like you do, and most other people do too.

That's true. I often overcompensate for my narcissism and hate with timidness and kindness which often works because of my face lol. Unfortunately I do take responsibility for my actions a decent amount, which is why i'm taking responsibility for my death. I have been a shitty person but i somehow seem to meet a lot of other shitty people that initiate the shittiness.

Yeah I agree. Capitalism seems to promote these behaviors. The absolute worst people I've met are suburban white kids who grew up. I suppose that's a common trope. They disgust me and always reveal themselves in time...Yet they are the "popular" and successful ones.

 

[JustAboutDone]

There is clearly something wrong with me. I am extremely bitter now though. I have basically ruined my life and the system is putting me where I deserve. I'd rather die at this point than attempt to fix my life.

From what you said with your mother there would be something wrong with me too! But you can choose to be bitter or you can choose to let that go as being bitter as an old lemon is not a good quality.

As for ruining your life, you don't know that you have yet - you can always start over. I'm not trying to talk you out of ctb, that's not my agenda, however I feel you are blaming yourself for a whole load of things that made you who you are that you were not responsible for.

 

[okyeah]

Ok but what about anxiety? Not a problem for you?

I get anxiety but i think it's different to what most people might get. I get anxiety a lot because I am trying to manipulate myself to connect with the other person for personal gain... However, I am good at conning people and stretching the truth so anxiety is not present when there is a drop of truth involved.

I also care 0 about other people deep down. I never really feel good when they are happy, just contempt.

 

[JustAboutDone]

I don't know if I'm a psychopath, since you asked. I doubt it very, very much. But l do have many shit personality traits that have not only held me back in life but have hurt and upset others a great deal too, just like you do, and most other people do too.

Masses of respect. Total admire your brutal honesty here.

 

[okyeah]

From what you said with your mother there would be something wrong with me too! But you can choose to be bitter or you can choose to let that go as being bitter as an old lemon is not a good quality.

As for ruining your life, you don't know that you have yet - you can always start over. I'm not trying to talk you out of ctb, that's not my agenda, however I feel you are blaming yourself for a whole load of things that made you who you are that you were not responsible for.

i can't really start over now. Well I guess I could but i would lead a miserable life in accordance to what I desire. And my entitlement is a bit too strong to do that.

You say I'm blaming myself but I realize what has been out of my control...and yet I need to take responsibility for it. That's what I realized in therapy. Therapy made me "worse". I have rationalized my suicide because it appears that my life is objectively not worth living. That's actually another trait of antisocial personality disorder - that therapy will not help much and may make the person worse. I have been in therapy for 2 years lol.

 

[JustAboutDone]

I get anxiety but i think it's different to what most people might get. I get anxiety a lot because I am trying to manipulate myself to connect with the other person for personal gain... However, I am good at conning people and stretching the truth so anxiety is not present when there is a drop of truth involved.

I also care 0 about other people deep down. I never really feel good when they are happy, just contempt.

How do you know that's not just emotional numbing from your upbringing? Where you have conditioned yourself to bury your feelings deeply to avoid pain?

 

[JustAboutDone]

i can't really start over now. Well I guess I could but i would lead a miserable life in accordance to what I desire. And my entitlement is a bit too strong to do that.

You say I'm blaming myself but I realize what has been out of my control...and yet I need to take responsibility for it. That's what I realized in therapy. Therapy made me "worse". I have rationalized my suicide because it appears that my life is objectively not worth living. That's actually another trait of antisocial personality disorder - that therapy will not help much and may make the person worse. I have been in therapy for 2 years lol.

I don't know many people who have found therapy beneficial!

(This is where I get a flurry of messages saying it was awesome)

I just wanted to poke my therapist in the head with a dinner fork.

 

[ReadyasEver]

That's true. I often overcompensate for my narcissism and hate with timidness and kindness which often works because of my face lol. Unfortunately I do take responsibility for my actions a decent amount, which is why i'm taking responsibility for my death. I have been a shitty person but i somehow seem to meet a lot of other shitty people that initiate the shittiness.

Yeah I agree. Capitalism seems to promote these behaviors. The absolute worst people I've met are suburban white kids who grew up. I suppose that's a common trope. They disgust me and always reveal themselves in time...Yet they are the "popular" and successful ones.

In the US, I understand the generalization, but be very careful with it. Part of our society's problem is labeling without the proper context and understanding of the detail. My daughter grew up in white suburbia with me. She is a special education teacher now. Kind and compassionate, dedicates a great amount time to outreach programs and volunteering when not in the classroom. Tries very hard to bring a little comfort, happiness, and sense of accomplishment to those in which many in society simply ignore.

 

[ReadyasEver]

I don't know many people who have found therapy beneficial!

(This is where I get a flurry of messages saying it was awesome)

I just wanted to poke my therapist in the head with a dinner fork.

We had the same one I presume, I stress " had ".

 

[okyeah]

How do you know that's not just emotional numbing from your upbringing? Where you have conditioned yourself to bury your feelings deeply to avoid pain?

my therapist says its a defense mechanism...but I don't know if it really is exactly. It's more like I have a strong hatred for people. It likely is from my upbringing. I was completely ostracized in high school. However, real life is high school 2.0 as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rollo]

I get anxiety but i think it's different to what most people might get. I get anxiety a lot because I am trying to manipulate myself to connect with the other person for personal gain... However, I am good at conning people and stretching the truth so anxiety is not present when there is a drop of truth involved.

I also care 0 about other people deep down. I never really feel good when they are happy, just contempt.

Ok but as far as like riding a motorbike (maybe even without a helmet on) or saying 'fuck you' to a big guy's face when he disrespects you or fighting or doing all other types of risky and dangerous stuff - is it about you?