If you want to ruin your own evening, see what the Reddit experts have to say about the rationality and your right to suicide

[a.n.kirillov]

in this old thread.



Have fun

 

[AnnonyBox]

Ugh, reddit is so full of self righteous ignorant assholes. Typical.

 

[Lostnotfound]

Ugh, reddit is so full of self righteous ignorant assholes. Typical.

The world is full of self righteous ignorant arseholes .... very few decent people about

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Some intriguing excerpts:

"I already replied to someone else about this. Depression is inhibiting the person's ability to make informed consent. They are not in a state where they can understand the consequences of killing themselves. Death is a solution to their depression sure, but it is an ultimate choice. There are alternatives to curing depression that does not require killing oneself. That is the only reasoning. They are in a state where they cannot fully understand the consequences of death. It would be unethical to let someone with a massive head injury make life altering decisions, the same goes for depression.

Suicide is ethical if the person is in a medically clear state of mind, where they understand the situation entirely and are able to make decisions based off of the information they have (informed consent). A case of this would be someone suffering from stage 4 cancer, terminally ill and knowing that full well they will die in tremendous amounts of pain. "


"It is unethical to let someone commit suicide due to depression. That is exactly what I am saying. Someone suffering from depression is clearly not in a state where they can make a choice like killing themselves. Death is an extreme consequence. Depression has solutions, it would be unethical to allow someone to kill themselves without first helping them find treatment options which could ultimately lead to a cure. "


First and foremost I believe if we were meant to live our primary purpose is to survive. There are many distractions that might convince one that they are miserable, but this is only misunderstanding. Helping someone end their lives in a hope to end suffering is in no way helping them. The only way to help is to encourage them to understand their suffering and overcome, as we all must do."


"That taboo is sometimes the one thing stopping people from killing themselves and forcing them through their situation until they realize that things do get better."

" vs just wanting to die because you are having financial troubles."

"Unless you are terminally ill and sentenced to a miserable and slow death, it is *objectively impossible* for elective suicide to be a rational decision. I think it is sensible for society to intervene on such a person's behalf." (!!!!!!)

 

[waterbottleman]

To ruin your day just go on almost any subreddit for that matter.

It's full of dudebros who only care about "owning" people and self righteous people who want to let everyone know how much more awesome they are than you. Also on Reddit the person who writes the smart ass short comment with no substance always gets more upvotes than the person who actually writes a long and thoughtful response.

Another reason I dislike reddit is the karma system. Almost all the subreddits I've encountered have an ideological bubble and if you challenge any of the tenets/axioms they assume to be true you get flooded with downvotes to the point that you can only write a comment once an hour. Reddit is literally programmed to encourage group think.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

A few days ago in a conversation about pro life stickers on a bridge I got really heated up and this is exactly why: this is what we are up against. Self righteous, patronizing, mad people who want to take away your freedoms and completely devalue your opinions and perceptions about the world by calling you irrational! Sorry, we have to lock you up since no rational person could ever find this beautiful, beautiful best of all worlds depressing or hopeless! There clearly is something wrong with YOU and your perceptions and we will help you, whether you like it or not, we I'll electrocute and drug you until your just as glib and deluded about reality as we are!

 

[a.n.kirillov]

To ruin your day just go on almost any subreddit for that matter.

It's full of dudebros who only care about "owning" people and self righteous people who want to let everyone know how much more awesome they are than you. Also on Reddit the person who writes the smart ass short comment with no substance always gets more upvotes than the person who actually writes a long and thoughtful response.

Another reason I dislike reddit is the karma system. Almost all the subreddits I've encountered have an ideological bubble and if you challenge any of the tenets/axioms they assume to be true you get flooded with downvotes to the point that you can only write a comment once an hour. Reddit is literally programmed to encourage group think.

Yes wow I used to be on Reddit often back in the days and I was really shocked to see how fucked up a place it is; at least the popular ones like askreddit.

I posted a slightly contrarian answer there today about pets and was downvoted and shitstormed for being a peta nazi or something.

 

[waterbottleman]

Yes wow I used to be on Reddit often back in the days and I was really shocked to see how fucked up a place it is; at least the popular ones like askreddit.

I posted a slightly contrarian answer there today about pets and was downvoted and shitstormed for being a peta nazi or something.

Yeah I don't go on Reddit anymore.

 

[oopswronglife]

Why would anyone choose to ruin their evening? I know mine is miserable enough already. I think seeking out stuff to get mad at is....mad.

Also Reddit is full of literal children and professional griefers. Arguing with or caring about a 12-14yos opinion on such things is silly in my view.

 

[Lostnotfound]

Some intriguing excerpts:

"I already replied to someone else about this. Depression is inhibiting the person's ability to make informed consent. They are not in a state where they can understand the consequences of killing themselves. Death is a solution to their depression sure, but it is an ultimate choice. There are alternatives to curing depression that does not require killing oneself. That is the only reasoning. They are in a state where they cannot fully understand the consequences of death. It would be unethical to let someone with a massive head injury make life altering decisions, the same goes for depression.

Suicide is ethical if the person is in a medically clear state of mind, where they understand the situation entirely and are able to make decisions based off of the information they have (informed consent). A case of this would be someone suffering from stage 4 cancer, terminally ill and knowing that full well they will die in tremendous amounts of pain. "


"It is unethical to let someone commit suicide due to depression. That is exactly what I am saying. Someone suffering from depression is clearly not in a state where they can make a choice like killing themselves. Death is an extreme consequence. Depression has solutions, it would be unethical to allow someone to kill themselves without first helping them find treatment options which could ultimately lead to a cure. "

Ok but I am diagnosed with severe depression with high suicidal intent but the medical profession has decided, and written in their reports that I have full capacity to make the decision to end my life and therefore they will not intervene, and no I have no ill health which would determine that I should make such a decision .... they are talking out of their arses ..... they know nothing

 

[a.n.kirillov]

And just how stupid some replies are compared to the average response you get here.

Like "Unless you are terminally ill and sentenced to a miserable and slow death"; completely unable to see that everyone alive is obviously 'terminally ill' and most are sentenced to a miserable and slow death.

Or claiming depression has solutions and there is a 'cure' and using that as a basis to lock someone up.

 

[Lostnotfound]

Dignitas has now declared that long term depression is enough to be admitted to their clinic and are accepting patients with mental health including depression

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Ok but I am diagnosed with severe depression with high suicidal intent but the medical profession has decided, and written in their reports that I have full capacity to make the decision to end my life and therefore they will not intervene, and no I have no ill health which would determine that I should make such a decision .... they are talking out of their arses ..... they know nothing

Their criteria are that you have to be happy, healthy, financially successful and love life to be able to make such a decision; but as someone pointed out, such a person would then clearly suffer from a mental disorder. At least they figured out it's a catch 22, but the hubris and the atrocity of their patronizing behaviour doesn't occur to them at all.

Dignitas has now declared that long term depression is enough to be admitted to their clinic and are accepting patients with mental health including depression

Yes Pegasos as well and hopefully in Germany (if the government doesn't fuck it up in a major way again).

 

[Mr2005]

What does it matter what some people on reddit think? On my list of problems that's right at the bottom

 

[a.n.kirillov]

I have changed my mind on this question recently and I now think it would be ethically justifiable to wish as much suffering on them as is necessary for them to admit that the right to die should be a fundamental one and that wanting to die can be a rational decision.

 

[Lostnotfound]

I asked this on the chat but no one answered ... MH in my area (who seem pretty useless to be fair) cling to the theory that its the depression that makes us want to ctb. They say if I take the pills to cure the depression (antidepressants which I have refused to take) then I wont have suicidal ideation any more. Is there any evidence to this theory or is it just more text book crap! Yes I feel depressed but I feel sane enough to make a decision. I dont feel my brain is clouded or anything.

 

[Mr2005]

^
I think it depends if there's a reason you're depressed or you're just depressed

 

[Lostnotfound]

^
I think it depends if there's a reason you're depressed or you're just depressed

Well as we know - i have a reason I am depressed and its not mental illness but a physical situation I am in. Its a bit irrelevant in my case as they have also stated that my depression etc is psychosocial and therefore medication wont be effective in offering any relief from depression yet they still prescribe it! I did say they were useless

 

[a.n.kirillov]

What does it matter what some people on reddit think? On my list of problems that's right at the bottom

Because it's what many, many people think, including some of my friends for example to whom I have to speak very carefully now because otherwise they will call the authorities on me, despite my having clearly stated that this would make my situation worse and my distrust of people greater. I have also demonstrated my reasoning capabilities and still they claim I am mentally unsound and 'ill', to the point I can no longer associate with them or most people for that matter.
Are you comfortable telling people you will end your life at work or at family gatherings? See, I imagine a future where it will be a completely normal thing to do. We have to die anyway and we can choose the time to do it, whether it be at 20 or at 90. People can then express their sorrow about that and try to persuade you to go on, but ultimately will be polite enough to accept your decision about when to end your own fucking life.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

in this old thread.



Have fun

My days & evenings are already ruined … so I think I will pass.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

^
I think it depends if there's a reason you're depressed or you're just depressed

No one is 'depressed' for no reason. We live in a cause and effect universe so first of all someone claiming a depression was 'without a reason' would have to explain how in this case the law of cause and effect doesn't apply.

AND how, even if it was the case the depression was without a cause or 'reason', this would in any way change the reality of the suffering endured, the reasoning capabilities of the sufferer and why this should justify taking away from him basic human rights.

 

[Lostnotfound]

so again this is what I am told by MH and not necessarily believing ... depression is an unbalanced chemical reaction in the brain so the anti depressant pills are necessary to rebalance those chemicals. There does not need to be a reason it is just like a malfunction that needs adjustment to put right. I was told to think of a car which has components that malfunction (wear and tear) and just need a tweak to put right again ... this is the brain, it needs a tweak in the form of a chemical to put it right again. So MH say if I sort out these rogue chemicals by taking antidepressants i will feel better and not want to ctb.

Personally i think they talk a load of shit but I'm not medically trained

 

[a.n.kirillov]

so again this is what I am told by MH and not necessarily believing ... depression is an unbalanced chemical reaction in the brain so the anti depressant pills are necessary to rebalance those chemicals. There does not need to be a reason it is just like a malfunction that needs adjustment to put right. I was told to think of a car which has components that malfunction (wear and tear) and just need a tweak to put right again ... this is the brain, it needs a tweak in the form of a chemical to put it right again. So MH say if I sort out these rogue chemicals by taking antidepressants i will feel better and not want to ctb.

Personally i think they talk a load of shit but I'm not medically trained

It is bullshit no one takes it seriously anymore. Actually no one has ever taken the chemical imbalance theory seriously, it's simply a marketing ploy.

It's about as credible as saying that a red nose causes the flu and by painting it white you become healthy again. Guess what in most cases you would actually become healthy doing that. Just as most people come out of depressive episodes despite taking ADs.

 

[Mr2005]

No one is 'depressed' for no reason. We live in a cause and effect universe so first of all someone claiming a depression was 'without a reason' would have to explain how in this case the law of cause and effect doesn't apply.

AND how, even if it was the case the depression was without a cause or 'reason', this would in any way change the reality of the suffering endured, the reasoning capabilities of the sufferer and why this should justify taking away from him basic human rights.

Of course there's a reason they just might not know what that reason is. I often wonder how anyone can not be depressed but I'm forgetting how little they care. If it doesn't effect them it doesn't matter

Because it's what many, many people think, including some of my friends for example to whom I have to speak very carefully now because otherwise they will call the authorities on me, despite my having clearly stated that this would make my situation worse and my distrust of people greater. I have also demonstrated my reasoning capabilities and still they claim I am mentally unsound and 'ill', to the point I can no longer associate with them or most people for that matter.
Are you comfortable telling people you will end your life at work or at family gatherings? See, I imagine a future where it will be a completely normal thing to do. We have to die anyway and we can choose the time to do it, whether it be at 20 or at 90. People can then express their sorrow about that and try to persuade you to go on, but ultimately will be polite enough to accept your decision about when to end your own fucking life.

I don't envision that rosey future. I wish I did. I think we'll have killed each other off by then. People don't even respect peoples right to live.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Why would anyone choose to ruin their evening? I know mine is miserable enough already. I think seeking out stuff to get mad at is....mad.

Also Reddit is full of literal children and professional griefers. Arguing with or caring about a 12-14yos opinion on such things is silly in my view.

If they were 12-14 yos it wouldn't bother me as much but these are grown ass, educated middle and upper middle class people. And even if they were all in their mid twenties do you really think most of them will change their opinions in the future?

 

[Grandexit]

"Reddit expert" isn't that an oxymoron? F them and the silly scooter they rode in on.

 

[Ulisses]

Dignitas has now declared that long term depression is enough to be admitted to their clinic and are accepting patients with mental health including depression

how much does euthanasia in dignity cost?

 

[Lostnotfound]

how much does euthanasia in dignity cost?

I'm not an expert on this. I looked into it from the UK and they reckoned that with flights and hotels and the urn etc (law is you have to be cremated there, you cant be flown home or anything) it comes in just under £10,000. I understand reductions can be made in certain exceptions but i dont know what they are .... i dont have that sort of money

 

[departing]

It's the same everywhere. Reddit is no different than other sites or even real-world chit-chat.

 

[Ulisses]

I'm not an expert on this. I looked into it from the UK and they reckoned that with flights and hotels and the urn etc (law is you have to be cremated there, you cant be flown home or anything) it comes in just under £10,000. I understand reductions can be made in certain exceptions but i dont know what they are .... i dont have that sort of money

expensive and very bureaucratic, for the price