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Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
If you stare long enough into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you, goes the quote.


I wonder if you, too, feel that contemplating death has fundamentally changed who you are as a person? Has death stared back into you? If so, in what way?


As far as I'm concerned, suicide has deeply changed me inwardly, and actually made me "happier" outwardly. Happier as in less reactive and more apathic. I have more patience and understanding for people. I make more allowences and take less things to heart. I guess I even hurry less... where am I off to anyway? I think I live at another pace than before the big crisis which led me here. As if the veil has fallen from the face of the world. There's nothing there... Why hurry? Why argue? Why get annoyed at the person who cuts in line in front of you?

I find it ironic that years of therapy and cbt could not change me as much as one single night of horror, when I came face to face with the gaping hole of eternal darkness.
 
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Carina

Carina

Angelic
Dec 22, 2019
4,005
When I was younger, basically pre-suicidal, I wrote poems. They were uplifting, positive, with signs of hope and love--and I could whip out a poem in minutes if given something as a topic.

After I was, stories are dark, obsessed with death, obsessed with death being the beginning, obsessed with violent ends that even people who read a small 2 page thing, they are so disturbed, they don't know if I need help--because it is that dark, it's like a blueprint for pain. And, the stories are obsessed with pain, physical, and mental, where people are completely destroyed to breaking points, where they give up and surrender. The only story that had a happy ending was so bittersweet, that it was actually sad, and people actually realized the entire store wasn't a love story as they thought, but a person slowly breaking down at the loss of a loved one, and it was merely a suicide attempt in many passive attempts, until the person gives up.

'Slight' difference. But I also realized that all the stories, were just my mind working out issues. My entire way of thinking changed, my viewpoints on the world, how I interpret comments. I would do things that could kill me without a second thought.

It's almost like when seeing darkness, it looked back, and I welcomed it in.


But you know, everyone's a bit different. With you, it made you more positive in a way apparently.
 
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Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
I would do things that could kill me without a second thought.

I know what you mean, I have also become more wreckless. It can be liberating at times.

But you know, everyone's a bit different. With you, it made you more positive in a way apparently.

Apathy is, in my opinion, a very bad sign. It's when you have no more fight left. When you are ready to lie down in "cold obstruction and to rot". Apathy is the end point.
 
C

CarefulWithThatAxe

Experienced
Nov 7, 2019
296
I have most certainly reached the point of apathy nothing means anything to me anymore id happily lie down and die
and I have felt that eternal darkness you speak of.
 
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imagineit

Member
Jan 1, 2020
55
It has no question changed me. I think grappling with your own existence, the control you come to recognize you have, engaging in an internal dialogue about something so real and personal it would be hard to come away unchanged. You're talking about something antithetical to the very spirit of your existence. If you put much stock into things like that. I think it's hard not to spend time thinking about how amazing it is that these ideas even exist and we are here to even have a chance to contemplate them. For better or worse.

I can appreciate much of your post, particularly regarding social interactions. A number of years ago I was on the brink of ending my own life but there was much going on in the orbit, so to speak, that it would have been in very poor consideration of others. It was a hard time but I decided I would delay it for a period and instead reflected on it heavily. It turned out to be one of more liberating moments in my life. While I realize that the ideal time has come and gone, spending additional time in a comparatively more positive headspace has had its benefits. It's funny to consider the sense of control I have gained from not doing something, but it is there and over the years it provides comfort and peace in certain moments, mood considering lol
 
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Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
I have most certainly reached the point of apathy nothing means anything to me anymore id happily lie down and die
and I have felt that eternal darkness you speak of.


I apologize in advance for this degression, but your username is soooo good!

I get this image in my head of a drunken vicar with long white sideburns and a buttoned-up clerical coat, walking into the parsonage where there is a group of pious old ladies having tea. And as he mumbles something unintelligible, picks up an axe someone forgot by the fireplace. At which, the old ladies spring to their feet, dropping their cups on the carpet, and wide-eyed shout: Careful with that axe, vicar!!!

I hope my little joke does not cause you any offense. Thank you for your reply.
 
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C

CarefulWithThatAxe

Experienced
Nov 7, 2019
296
I apologize in advance for this degression, but your username is soooo good!

I get this image in my head of a drunken vicar with long white sideburns and a buttoned-up clerical coat, walking into the parsonage where there is a group of pious old ladies having tea. And as he mumbles something unintelligible, picks up an axe someone forgot by the fireplace. At which, the old ladies spring to their feet, dropping their cups on the carpet, and wide-eyed shout: Careful with that axe, vicar!!!

I hope my little joke does not cause you any offense. Thank you for your reply.

No I'm not offended at all it made me smile something I don't do very often my username is a reference to a pink Floyd song
Careful with that Axe, Eugene
 
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ARW3N

ARW3N

Melancholia
Dec 25, 2019
402
There's actually nothing strange about what you are saying. A Buddhist meditation practice uses various visualization and contemplation techniques to meditate on the nature of death.
 
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K

KiraLittleOwl

Lost in transition
Jan 25, 2019
1,083
I am just bitter. That's all.
 
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E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
It has no question changed me. I think grappling with your own existence, the control you come to recognize you have, engaging in an internal dialogue about something so real and personal it would be hard to come away unchanged. You're talking about something antithetical to the very spirit of your existence.

The paradox for me was that in contemplating non-existence, I caught a glimpse of existence. I felt I existed, that my body "was", that things around me "were".

I had read about this in a clever book in my 20s, but I hadn't really understood it, until it happened to me. Anyway, that person described feeling existence as feeling sick from your stomach.


To me, the sensation was deeply unpleasant and my first instinct was to get rid of it. It's hard to put it into words. Suffice it to say, I do not wish to experience it again anytime soon.
No I'm not offended at all it made me smile something I don't do very often my username is a reference to a pink Floyd song
Careful with that Axe, Eugene

It must be one of their early albums, I have only listened to their stuff from the 70s and later. Now that's a band which makes life worth living an extra day just to listen to their abums one more time, before kicking the bucket.

You do realize, this is a "oh by the way, which one is Pink?" - moment, right?
 
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D

dyingtodie

Student
Nov 29, 2018
115
I love this post. Indeed the abyss of suicidal ideation, isolation, and alienation has led me to greater inner peace and bliss. And quite unfortunately deeper self love, which makes ctb more difficult, despite increasing levels of depression. My gallows humor has deepened as well. It's amazing what kind of comedy the threat of self-execution will provoke. The more suicidal I am, the darker the jokes my survival instinct will think up.

And I continue dancing with death, not quite ready for the final embrace.
 
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HannahB

HannahB

Death is the true name of time.
Oct 29, 2019
185
I'm not really sure.... that's such a good question. I was so young when I first wanted to die I cant imagine what I'd be like as someone who never thought about it. But idk maybe I'm more distant im scared to be friends with people because I don't want to hurt them when I leave.
 
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OvertheRainbeaux

OvertheRainbeaux

stuck down a rabbit hole of misery
Jan 1, 2020
43
I definitely get what you mean where it has made you happier.
But it's also made me sad.

But if I'm being honest for the most part it's given me the only feeling of true happiness & comfort that I've had in a long time. It just makes me sad that, that is the only way I can feel happy.

The ideation idk.
But mostly because I'm too afraid to end it. Most of me wants to die, a little part of me says "what-if".
 
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Worthless_nobody

Enlightened
Feb 14, 2019
1,384
It's definitely changed my perception of life in that I cannot go back to my ignorant is bliss state if being. It's like I awoke some knowledge inside me and I can't see any other way now: that for me life is an inherently pointless endeavor...a means to an end. No purpose other than existing purely for the sake of existing and to work, to pay bills, to eat and eventually die. I cannot seem to go back to my previous state of mind my apathy and anhedonia are so bad. Knowledge and wisdom about what life truly is was the killer of happiness for me. I can no longer fake a smile and fake happy and grin and bear social situations.
 
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Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
No purpose other than existing purely for the sake of existing and to work, to pay bills, to eat and eventually die.

Once you start pondering this, it becomes difficult, perhaps even impossible for some, to go back to the dellusion that life is purposeful in itself. I am not sure what scares me more: the concept of nothingness after death, or the realization that my life is intrinsically devoid of purpose, and whatever purpose I chose to assign to it is purely arbitrary.

Then I hear claims such as: the purpose of life is to love, to follow your dreams, to help your fellow men and contribute to society in as much as your abilities permit you.

These ideas, albeit nice, are in fact a non-answer to the question of purpose. They are made up, they change over time, and greatly vary culturally. They add nothing, they shed no light on the question "Why am I here?".
 
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D

Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,914
People trying to force me to think the way they think I should think has made me worse. People on here accepting me, listening and understanding has allowed me to find a little more strength and make my own way. However, it comes at a price. On ss, you make friends then you can lose them in the most tragic circumstances.
 
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Kifa

Kifa

Narcissist
Dec 24, 2019
16
Definitely relate in a lot of different ways to the majority of comments here. I feel like I'm a bit slower to anger and have more patience and understanding but I'm also extremely apathetic and care less in a lot of other ways. The concept of getting mad about something almost annoys me these days so I tend to stay away from angry people because I just can't understand it anymore like why? So what? What does yelling solve? Nothing.

it's also twisted my humor a lot and it is extremely easy for me to make others laugh these days so that's nice. But it's also made it much harder for me to laugh? some sad clown shit right there or whatever the story is lol
 
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Death.

Death.

Student
Jan 5, 2019
140
It's definitely changed my perception of life in that I cannot go back to my ignorant is bliss state if being. It's like I awoke some knowledge inside me and I can't see any other way now: that for me life is an inherently pointless endeavor...a means to an end. No purpose other than existing purely for the sake of existing and to work, to pay bills, to eat and eventually die. I cannot seem to go back to my previous state of mind my apathy and anhedonia are so bad. Knowledge and wisdom about what life truly is was the killer of happiness for me. I can no longer fake a smile and fake happy and grin and bear social situations.
The conscious acknowledgement of the impermanence of life and the absolute meaninglessness of life is indeed somewhat of a relief. In the ultimate greater scheme of things, NOTHING we do really matters. The only possible meaning I can conclude is that life does not have a meaning, instead it is merely meant to be "experienced". The journey of life, and not the ultimate destination which is death, potentially gives life some meaning.
 
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Flume

Flume

Villain
Oct 28, 2019
300
I'm the complete opposite. I just hate, hate it all. I'm extremely impatient and sometimes can't even pass a normal guy in the street without wanting to punch him. I never do, but you get the idea. Here I am on the brink of death and no one fucking cares at all. My soul is turning more and more black everyday and now there's no reversing it.

I did learna lot to, but all of it was bad. So now I just feel like an evil genius that no one cares about at all.
 
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OvertheRainbeaux

OvertheRainbeaux

stuck down a rabbit hole of misery
Jan 1, 2020
43
I'm the complete opposite. I just hate, hate it all. I'm extremely impatient and sometimes can't even pass a normal guy in the street without wanting to punch him. I never do, but you get the idea. Here I am on the brink of death and no one fucking cares at all. My soul is turning more and more black everyday and now there's no reversing it.
I definitely understand how that feels as well.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
This is a good post. Yes, I had too had grapples with life and death as well as the meaning of it all. I do feel similarly when thinking about death, like that it is the ultimate solution to all of the temporary and permanent problems that is in 'life'. Once one ceases to exist, all good and bad things are no longer relevant and yes, the world and the universe still continues until end of time (whether the universe implodes or whatever you believe in ).

Knowing that death is a solution and a very permanent outcome, in some ways it has changed how I approached life and my attitude towards life and interactions in general. Of course, IRL, I would never touch these serious subject matters mainly out of fear of consequences, up to and including involuntary hospitalization, which would only make my life many times worse than it is now. As of now, knowing such a fact just allows me to live day to day while the copes last. Then when it gets too much, I will just get everything in order, tie loose ends, and then finally go out with a bang (pun intended - will be CTB'ing via firearm as it's the most accessible and reliable method I have.). The aftermath would be very messy, but I don't feel too bad afterwards because it wasn't my fault to be brought into this world, and also not my fault that our society, the state and the government, as well as many selfish people on this Earth refuse me a peaceful, dignified exit.
 
E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
@thrw_a_way1221221

Of course, IRL, I would never touch these serious subject matters mainly out of fear of consequences, up to and including involuntary hospitalization, which would only make my life many times worse than it is now.

Imagine the awkward silence and sideways glaces if you suddenly mentioned anything vaguely connected to suicide in any social situation. I can't think of a more uncomfortable subject. People would literally rather sink through the floor than look you in the eye and engage with you. And then they would call the Department of Well Being and Eternal Happiness to have you hospitalized. They really do want what's best for you...
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,819
@Epsilon0 Which is why they are mostly brainwashed NPC's (Non-Playable Characters) who lack self-awareness and self-introspection. They also don't even bother to question the status quo, but instead wish to preserve it. So even questioning it is off limits which only further stigmatizes the subject of suicide and death. So I would argue that most people are just plain ignorant and refuse to even try to question their own beliefs and what is handed down. Therefore, I just avoid any uncomfortable topics with them, mainly for my own security and protection of my civil rights and freedom.
 
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Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
@Epsilon0 Which is why they are mostly brainwashed NPC's (Non-Playable Characters) who lack self-awareness and self-introspection. They also don't even bother to question the status quo, but instead wish to preserve it. So even questioning it is off limits which only further stigmatizes the subject of suicide and death. So I would argue that most people are just plain ignorant and refuse to even try to question their own beliefs and what is handed down. Therefore, I just avoid any uncomfortable topics with them, mainly for my own security and protection of my civil rights and freedom.

You ask for a tall order: humans are not prone to questioning the safe haven of their belief system, to deconstruct and allow new ideas to enter into their mental bloodstream. It's difficult, uncomfortable, it takes a lot of courage. Why bother, when it's so cozy and nice to think inside the box?
 
J

Jon

Student
Oct 1, 2018
109
Knowledge and wisdom about what life truly is was the killer of happiness for me.

This is the same with me, and I think this is what was meant by the quote about staring into the abyss, which is non-existence and shrouded in darkness. There was text I read which someone sent to me which was very depressing, even more so because it was true (the man who wrote later killed himself). It's here:


It's a long text, but it's a very depressing outlook on life, and perhaps because the author consistently thought like this, this caused depression and eventual suicide. Depression (and anger and hatred) are most destructive emotions, as they will neither help with recovery, nor help with suicide, as suicide requires courage and determination, which depression depletes.

The way I come to terms with this is by removing the fear of being dead from my mind. There's two quotes which I like, as follows:

No one demands consciousness and life for himself,
when mind and body lie equally at rest in sleep;
and in the endless sleep that waits for us,
no desire for ourselves reaches us.

Death is nothing to us;
for that which does not exist feels nothing,
and that which feels nothing is nothing to us.


Basically death is non-existence, but because to think of ourselves not-existing is almost impossible, it's therefore better to avoid thinking about, or just think of the quotes like the ones above. Avoid imaging what death 'is'.

As depression is arguably the worst state to be in, as everything seems dark and it strips away our confidence and self-esteem. It must be avoided, and it can be avoided by putting everything into perspective, and not letting our imagination run wild. By putting things into perspective I mean by writing all your thoughts down, and when you do this, and comparing your lives with others and those who lived centuries ago, you can, over time and repeated reflections, come to terms with life and death.


A Buddhist meditation practice uses various visualization and contemplation techniques to meditate on the nature of death.

It wasn't just Buddhist meditation that practices visualisation and contemplations techniques, it was a practice done in ancient Western philosophy as well. There's an excellent lecture on this, which discusses the visualisation techniques used by Seneca, particularly vivid imaginary, repetition, and exemplars who died with equanimity. The video is here:




Although being dead is something we need not even think about as it won't actually happen to us, which is difficult, impossible even, to fully comprehend; the act of dying, and pain and anxiety which precedes death (either self-inflicted or not), is something which does have to be thought about, as only by thinking about it can we come to terms with it. I don't find mental meditation or visulisation effective, but I do find writing effective. By writing, I feel I am able to shape my thoughts; whereas simply meditating about it doesn't give me that control. And so I write about those final moments, and make them as vivid as possible. This I believe is effective in removing the fear of death, but this takes a while of daily, repeated practice; it's not something which can be done in a day.

But above all, avoid what ever makes you depressed. Depression must be seen as an enemy which must be fought back, however difficult that may be. For once depression enters the mind it takes hold of our thoughts and makes everything seem more fearful than it actually is. Like I said earlier, depression hinders both recovery and suicide, and makes one feel trapped.

A final point is that I spent both Christmas and NYE alone, and wrote 15,000 words, reflections aimed at putting my life into perspective, but also finished each paragraph or so with vivid reflections on dying. This was effective as it avoided me from getting too downcast, it was especially useful when I could hear the fireworks outside while I was stuck inside alone. Whenever I'm depressed, I write, with the aim of putting everything into perspective, rather than looking into the 'abyss', which is nothing more than our imagination of things which we do not understand nor ever will.
 
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E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
This is the same with me, and I think this is what was meant by the quote about staring into the abyss, which is non-existence and shrouded in darkness. There was text I read which someone sent to me which was very depressing, even more so because it was true (the man who wrote later killed himself). It's here:


It's a long text, but it's a very depressing outlook on life, and perhaps because the author consistently thought like this, this caused depression and eventual suicide. Depression (and anger and hatred) are most destructive emotions, as they will neither help with recovery, nor help with suicide, as suicide requires courage and determination, which depression depletes.

The way I come to terms with this is by removing the fear of being dead from my mind. There's two quotes which I like, as follows:






Basically death is non-existence, but because to think of ourselves not-existing is almost impossible, it's therefore better to avoid thinking about, or just think of the quotes like the ones above. Avoid imaging what death 'is'.

As depression is arguably the worst state to be in, as everything seems dark and it strips away our confidence and self-esteem. It must be avoided, and it can be avoided by putting everything into perspective, and not letting our imagination run wild. By putting things into perspective I mean by writing all your thoughts down, and when you do this, and comparing your lives with others and those who lived centuries ago, you can, over time and repeated reflections, come to terms with life and death.




It wasn't just Buddhist meditation that practices visualisation and contemplations techniques, it was a practice done in ancient Western philosophy as well. There's an excellent lecture on this, which discusses the visualisation techniques used by Seneca, particularly vivid imaginary, repetition, and exemplars who died with equanimity. The video is here:




Although being dead is something we need not even think about as it won't actually happen to us, which is difficult, impossible even, to fully comprehend; the act of dying, and pain and anxiety which precedes death (either self-inflicted or not), is something which does have to be thought about, as only by thinking about it can we come to terms with it. I don't find mental meditation or visulisation effective, but I do find writing effective. By writing, I feel I am able to shape my thoughts; whereas simply meditating about it doesn't give me that control. And so I write about those final moments, and make them as vivid as possible. This I believe is effective in removing the fear of death, but this takes a while of daily, repeated practice; it's not something which can be done in a day.

But above all, avoid what ever makes you depressed. Depression must be seen as an enemy which must be fought back, however difficult that may be. For once depression enters the mind it takes hold of our thoughts and makes everything seem more fearful than it actually is. Like I said earlier, depression makes hinders both recovery and suicide, and makes one feel trapped.

A final point is that I spent both Christmas and NYE alone, and wrote 15,000 words, reflections aimed at putting my life into perspective, but also finished each paragraph or so with vivid reflections on dying. This was effective as it avoided me from getting too downcast, it was especially useful when I could hear the fireworks outside while I was stuck inside alone. Whenever I'm depressed, I write, with the aim of putting everything into perspective, rather than looking into the 'abyss', which is nothing more than our imagination of things which we do not understand nor ever will.



I love Wallace's speech! Apart from the depth of his ideas, I like that he shows the importance of having a liberal arts education.

Where I live there was recently a debate about whether the state should continue allocating funds for liberal arts seeing that their contribution to the advancement of soviety doesn't even come close to other fields such as economy or IT.

What an outrageous proposal! I bet many choked on their coffee reading the debate articles. I know I did.
 
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J

Jon

Student
Oct 1, 2018
109
I love Wallace's speech! Apart from the depth of his ideas, I like that he shows the importance of having a liberal arts education.

Where I live there was recently a debate about whether the state should continue allocating funds for liberal arts seeing that their contribution to the advancement of soviety doesn't even come close to other fields such as economy or IT.

What an outrageous proposal! I bet many choked on their coffee reading the debate articles. I know I did.

Yeah I really regret not studying the liberal arts, but my dad encouraged me to study IT as it had better job prospects. However things are changing, I read this article from the BBC about studying the humanities:


Also, I know there is a campaign to add classical studies (include Latin and Ancient Greek) to state schools. I think those of us who studied at a state school, and essential only learnt the basics, with the aim of specialising in a 'trade' for the future, we have been deprived of a 'framework' for life. Liberal studies provides us the ability to 'think', whereas other, more specialised degrees don't. I'm not saying it applies to all, I know many people are happy in trades such as electricians and plumbers and IT specialists, but this doesn't apply to everyone, and so the option should be there who come from less privileged families who can't afford a private education.
 
Mort

Mort

No use to know one
Feb 15, 2019
622
Well i have nearly died ones not from ctb tho i had a very bad illness my breathing got mess up was exposed to sum thing that slowly mess up my breathing. What happened one night I had to go to the bathroom back then just walking to the bathroom was like running a marathon. Any i got they had done my business but had to sit down just to get my breath back. This night it was not working it got worse it found it harder and harder to breathe my eyesight began to fail i went blind my hearing was going to . And my chest felt like it was on fire and had bad stitch very very painful. Then it all began to go away no more pain no more fighting to breathe i felt all warm and fussy then I noticed i could not feel my heart beating. But i did not panic i felt so happy felt like i was floating away then i knew i was dieing the last of me slipping away. But then sum thing kick in and the pain returned my eyesight and hearing came back to and was back in the bathroom. It took me another half an hour to get back the my bedroom i know what happened my instinct to live kick in was i piss at that . But i know now that dieing not so bad and i no longer so afraid of death any more i hope to one day end back in that place one day one day i will :)
 
E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
@Jon

But above all, avoid what ever makes you depressed.

Here, I must confess, we see things differently. At first glance, it sounds like a simple and reasonable enough idea, but if you put it under a microscope you see that, just like the apparent smoothness of a bone is made up of cavities, so is this statement full of holes.

Depression is not something you can avoid in the same manner you can avoid an allergic reaction, for instance: refrain from ingesting peanuts and you won't go into anaphylactic shock. If it were that simple, then all we would have to do is identify the trigger, avoid it, and bid depression farewell. As I am sure we both know, it is much more complicated than that.
 
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chris8000

chris8000

Experienced
Dec 10, 2019
231
There's actually nothing strange about what you are saying. A Buddhist meditation practice uses various visualization and contemplation techniques to meditate on the nature of death.

Reminding yourself your existence will come to an end helps develop a detached mind. A detached mind doesn't suffer. We feel relief accepting death is near because all our worldly attachments fade away. What's the point of clinging onto my house, my money, my success if death is coming.

I never got into death meditation, but he is right it is very common in Buddhism. There is a skeleton hanging at the back of a monastery I know of to remind people nothing really belongs to them. Creepy eh!
 

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