If you could delete the universe, would you do it?

[Kuolema]

Edit: Just let this topic disappear. I'm an idiot.

 

[not_a_robot]

Say "delete" not "exterminate", it sounds nicer.
And, fuck yes.
But I'm sure just deleting myself is more efficient.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/would-you-delete-the-universe.16423/

 

[Jean Améry]

Exterminating the entire human race implies murder on a planetary scale. If it would involve anything other than an instantaneous cessation of consciousness without prior knowledge by the subjects I definitely wouldn't as it would cause large scale suffering. If there were a button to push that would make all life in the universe cease to be at once and without any discomfort whatsoever I probably would.

There's just too much pain and suffering perpetuated on innocent beings to justify life. Which is why I subscribe to the philosophy of antinatalism.

 

[Kuolema]

In hindsight that was definitely a bad title to put. I probably shouldn't post when I'm running low on sleep :S

 

[DepressionsAHo]

You said to ignore this thread but I'm not going to.

No, I wouldn't. This world is a beautiful, gorgeous amazing place. There's so many things to see, there's so much world to love. Ever been hiking in the Alaskan wilderness?
Ever been swimming in the carribean ocean?
Ever went cliff diving for fun?
Ever made love and just laughed with the other person whilst laying on their chest thinking about nothing but them?
Ever had someone just lay under the covers with you in perfect silence?
There is genuine kindness in the world. I've experienced it. It fills me with joy to see people genuinely happy. I'm glad I'm not bitter. I've accepted what life gave me. I've seen things most people haven't and for that, I'll always be grateful. Life handed me a shitty deal. But there's other people that love it, that would give anything for it. How could I hate those people? Hell, I wish I WAS those people. The people that can smile through every hardship, the people that dominate in their field. Good for fucking them. A huge shout-out to them.

 

[oopswronglife]

You aren't an idiot and it's a thought all of us have probably pondered. For me it depends "what" the universe is. If it's all on my head or some simulation and doing so wouldn't affect other innocents then why not? "Have you tried turning it off and on again?" If it's all real and everyone else is real then I'd not want to make that choice for others so selfishly just to end my personal suffering. I don't have that right.

 

[Kuolema]

Just to clarify if I had this magical superpower... I wouldn't. I'm not that much of an arse. I just thought it would be an interesting question and if I'm a 100% honest I wanted to get some "alerts" because I'm getting addicted to getting them. I need to stop using this site for a while, I've got nothing to contribute and I keep saying stupid shit all the time. I should have stayed a lurker.

 

[Jean Améry]

You said to ignore this thread but I'm not going to
No, I wouldn't. This world is a beautiful, gorgeous amazing place. There's so many things to see, there's so much world to love. Ever been hiking in the Alaskan wilderness?
Ever been swimming in the carribean ocean?
Ever went cliff diving for fun
There is genuine kindness in the world. I've experienced it. It fills me with joy to see people genuinely happy. I'm glad I'm not bitter. I've accepted what life gave me. I've seen things most people haven't and for that, I'll always be grateful. Life handed me a shitty deal. But there's other people that love it, that would give anything for it. How could I hate those people? I wish I was those people. The people that can smile through every hardship, the people that dominate in their field. Good for fucking them. A huge shout-out to them.

I'm sure Alaska will do fine when global warming truly hits the fan. As will nature in general.

You completely ignore all the bad shit that goes on every day and the misery the sun shines on every single day. For every single thing you can point to that is 'fun', 'beautiful', 'joyous' etcetera I can point out the reality of things that are so gruesome and horrifying they should not exist.

The question here is whether anything from category A is worth any element in category B: is a baby being born with an open back worth the success of professor X in field Y? Yet that's the consequence of procreation: as long as life is created/prolonged you'll have category A and category B. The pleasurable and the horror.

Doesn't your own experience point to a negative response to that question? What's the use of a life that was once great but then turned to shit? Was it really worth being born just to find yourself in this mess? Would you not rather not have been born at all?

It still surprises me to find people on this forum who are genuine optimists: by their own admission their life is shit yet life in general is swell... This isn't any sort of attack on you: it's a simple observation which baffles me still.

I can only speak for myself but my conviction that it would be better if life didn't exist at all is not based on hatred for humankind. On the contrary: it's because I abhor suffering, especially human suffering, and life is intrinsically bound with suffering (Buddha: life is suffering, to be alive is to be subjected to dukha) that I hold the belief of annihilism or antinatalism. No life = no suffering. It's a simple equation yet impossible to refute.

I do agree fully nature in general is beautiful to watch but, as Schopenhauer famously remarked, that does not mean it's great to exist for the things in it. On the contrary. Nature is a horrorfest full of carnage and suffering. Any nature documentary will attest to that.

 

[oopswronglife]

Just to clarify if I had this magical superpower... I wouldn't. I'm not that much of an arse. I just thought it would be an interesting question and if I'm a 100% honest I wanted to get some "alerts" because I'm getting addicted to getting them. I need to stop using this site for a while, I've got nothing to contribute and I keep saying stupid shit all the time. I should have stayed a lurker.

I know it's easier said than done but you have as much right to be here as anyone. Being recognized and interacted with is something everyone needs. And let's face it...most things people say in general is stupid shit so you are in good company ;)

 

[DepressionsAHo]

I'm sure Alaska will do fine when global warming truly hits the fan. As will nature in general.

You completely ignore all the bad shit that goes on every day and the misery the sun shines on every single day. For every single thing you can point to that is 'fun', 'beautiful', 'joyous' etcetera I can point out the reality of things that are so gruesome and horrifying they should not exist.

The question here is whether anything from category A is worth any element in category B: is a baby being born with an open back worth the success of professor X in field Y? Yet that's the consequence of procreation: as long as life is created/prolonged you'll have category A and category B. The pleasurable and the horror.

Doesn't your own experience point to a negative response to that question? What's the use of a life that was once great but then turned to shit? Was it really worth being born just to find yourself in this mess? Would you not rather not have been born at all?

It still surprises me to find people on this forum who are genuine optimists: by their own admission their life is shit yet life in general is swell... This isn't any sort of attack on you: it's a simple observation which baffles me still.

I can only speak for myself but my conviction that it would be better if life didn't exist at all is not based on hatred for humankind. On the contrary: it's because I abhor suffering, especially human suffering, and life is intrinsically bound with suffering (Buddha: life is suffering, to be alive is to be subjected to dukha) that I hold the belief of annihilism or antinatalism. No life = no suffering. It's a simple equation yet impossible to refute.

I do agree fully nature in general is beautiful to watch but, as Schopenhauer famously remarked, that does not mean it's great to exist for the things in it. On the contrary. Nature is a horrorfest full of carnage and suffering. Any nature documentary will attest to that.

Oy mate, my life hasn't been great. I've been on and off suicidal since I was 8 years old. Yes, I do sincerely wish I was never born but since I can't change that, I can still remark on the brilliant experiences I've had throughout it. It's funny actually, contrary to you, it baffles me on how people on this forum tend to see only the negatives in life. I've had a discussion on here with a few users on how their life and how they see things isn't how every single person does. Your experiences in life do not equal everybody else's. I "dated" a guy once whose never really experienced and true hardships in life. His parents moved him here from Kuwait. Payed for everything for him. He went to college to become a civil engineer, he graduated college as a civil engineer and got a job immediately after school in his field. He was 26 making prolly around 80-90k a year. Picked himself up a brand new Lexus. Never once worried about where his next meal would come from. I tried to talk to him a little about some of my issues and he told me to "get over it" with a shrug. When he dumped me he added as an afterthought that one of the reasons he was dumping me was because I was poor. Every humans experience is different in life. Some of us became suicidal only recently. Others have been suicidal since they were 5. There was an old user on here who admitted to loving life before she lost her hair. She went bald. Thought she was disgusting and abhored her appearance. She killed herself because of it

I don't think life in general serves any true purpose but, since I'm forced to be here, there are some beautiful things that come with it. Nature, wildlife, the stars in a clear black sky. The smell of fresh rain. Fresh Pine trees.

Just to clarify if I had this magical superpower... I wouldn't. I'm not that much of an arse. I just thought it would be an interesting question and if I'm a 100% honest I wanted to get some "alerts" because I'm getting addicted to getting them. I need to stop using this site for a while, I've got nothing to contribute and I keep saying stupid shit all the time. I should have stayed a lurker.

Oy there's no need. I think it's an insightful question. I was a lurker for 7 months and look at me now. It's nice to answer something that hasn't been asked 100000000000000 times. Don't be afraid. I think we all can get addicted to some notifications

 

[dreamsofdestruction]

No, why?

If I somehow could manage to fit in with the world, I'd gladly stay.

 

[not_a_robot]

In hindsight that was definitely a bad title to put. I probably shouldn't post when I'm running low on sleep :S

lol you may as well have called it The Virtue Signalling Thread.

 

[Kuolema]

You aren't an idiot and it's a thought all of us have probably pondered. For me it depends "what" the universe is. If it's all on my head or some simulation and doing so wouldn't affect other innocents then why not? "Have you tried turning it off and on again?" If it's all real and everyone else is real then I'd not want to make that choice for others so selfishly just to end my personal suffering. I don't have that right.

I know it's easier said than done but you have as much right to be here as anyone. Being recognized and interacted with is something everyone needs. And let's face it...most things people say in general is stupid shit so you are in good company ;)

Thank you for being so understanding.

lol you may as well have called it The Virtue Signalling Thread.

Lol. I'm not very good at offending people, I'm a total coward. I try to maintain a low profile most of the time. These last few days is the most I've spoken to people in years.

 

[oopswronglife]

lol you may as well have called it The Virtue Signalling Thread.

I hate that phrase...it is used far too often, and inaccurately, to minimize human decency by calling it some attention seeking behavior.

 

[Jean Améry]

Oy mate, my life hasn't been great. I've been on and off suicidal since I was 8 years old. Yes, I do sincerely wish I was never born but since I can't change that, I can still remark on the brilliant experiences I've had throughout it. It's funny actually, contrary to you, it baffles me on how people on this forum tend to see only the negatives in life. I've had a discussion on here with a few users on how their life and how they see things isn't how every single person does. Your experiences in life do not equal everybody else's. I "dated" a guy once whose never really experienced and true hardships in life. His parents moved him here from Kuwait. Payed for everything for him. He went to college to become a civil engineer, he graduated college as a civil engineer and got a job immediately after school in his field. He was 26 making prolly around 80-90k a year. Picked himself up a brand new Lexus. Never once worried about where his next meal would come from. I tried to talk to him a little about some of my issues and he told me to "get over it" with a shrug. When he dumped me he added as an afterthought that one of the reasons he was dumping me was because I was poor. Every humans experience is different in life. Some of us became suicidal only recently. Others have been suicidal since they were 5. There was an old user on here who admitted to loving life before she lost her hair. She went bald. Thought she was disgusting and abhored her appearance. She killed herself because of it

Clearly it hasn't on the whole but you still had some great experiences none-the-less.

I can't speak for others but my philosophical convictions aren't based on my own experiences: an individual perspective means very little in that field. It's the whole picture, the facts and the relationships between the facts that bring me to my conclusions. Of course with the help of certain authors: I do not claim to have made this up.

Pessimism isn't based (or at least not necessarily based) on denying the existence of good things as I think I've shown in my two category model. Of course eating good food is good, hearing good music is good etcetera but that does not imply life on the whole is good and the good makes up for the bad. It doesn't. What does it benefit anyone to have enjoyed life to the fullest when you're dying and will soon lose everything, including your memories? What does the joy and pleasure of one individual benefit one who is in pain?

Life is a losing game, no matter one's individual experiences. Especially when one has an actual conscious the pain and negative experiences of others (both on the large and small scale) enter the picture and one feels pity and empathy even when has a life that is relatively 'good'. Even when one's own life is great is this worth the multitude of crappy lives or the very possibility that life can literally become unbearable?

I know for a fact my life is much easier than most on this planet yet I'm depressed and suicidal: does that mean I project my feelings unto the world? No: I do not claim everyone is or should be unhappy and kill themselves. Luckily my feelings do not have to dictate my thoughts. My thoughts are not based on my personal misfortune but knowledge of life and the world. Sadly those facts are not pleasant: one is born in blood and pain, one's body is a biological machine that is very vulnerable to every sort of disaster and misfortune, due to having a highly developed nervous system and a conscious mind we are extremely vulnerable to pain in all forms and in all intensities, in fact there are so many things that can cause us pain it's almost guaranteed we will suffer gravely sooner or later, sooner or later we will die and we dread this above all things...

I value beauty (both in nature and in art), knowledge, friendship... but that does not mean they make up for the horror in life and it's fundamentally flawed nature. It's just better to have them than not have them, at least aslong as one remains alive.

 

[Kuolema]

Oy there's no need. I think it's an insightful question. I was a lurker for 7 months and look at me now. It's nice to answer something that hasn't been asked 100000000000000 times. Don't be afraid. I think we all can get addicted to some notifications

<3

 

[dreamsofdestruction]

Virtue Signalling

Not exterminating the universe is a low bar though. :\

 

[Oblivion Lover]

Deleting the whole universe when you only want to wipe out humanity seems excessive. I wouldn't want to be responsible for the genocide of a peaceful alien species somewhere beyond human reach. I would only destroy Earth or simply trap humans on their ruined planet with a force field to not allow them to spread.

 

[LonelyHopelessDude]

No, it would be millions years of history wasted for human and earth, Billions years at a universe scale.
Stars dying, stars created, planets, who knows how many life forms in the universe died or existed, how many civilisations achieved scientifical advances.

You would be responsible for the largest genocide ever, if you consider Hitler as a monster, what would you be ?

 

[FullyUnplugged]

No, it would be millions years of history wasted for human and earth, Billions years at a universe scale.
Stars dying, stars created, planets, who knows how many life forms in the universe died or existed, how many civilisations achieved scientifical advances.

You would be responsible for the largest genocide ever, if you consider Hitler as a monster, what would you be ?

You would be god.

 

[RainAndSadness]

I don't consider myself to be an authority on the value of life, so I wouldn't press the button. I don't have a right to delete the universe, and with that, everyone who lives in it. I don't have t their consent. That's why I'm pro-choice in regards to suicide: it only requires your own consent.

 

[LonelyHopelessDude]

You would be god.

Yes a God, a God of destruction.
But with this power you would also die with the universe.
You wouldn't have time to be remembered as a God, a killer, a genocider, a criminal, you would just die with everybody in without having time to contemplate your power or what you have done.

But would you really be a God if you could have access to this power ? "The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being. "
If you can't create, would you be defined as a God ?

What I'm tying to say is that we don't have enough knowledge about life, the world and the universe to make the choice of ending the universe, we didn't even created it.

This choice should only be made by the "being" or the "thing" or anything that lead to the creation of everything.
That being that knows everything there is to know, and everything there is to be done.

 

[Final Escape]

Maybe lol!

 

[BPD Barbie]

I'd rather erase myself and any trace of me than take everyone and everything with me. I have nothing against the world, its beautiful, I've had some amazing experiences in it and met some equally amazing people. Who am I to take that away from everyone?

 

[Carina]

I'd rather erase myself and any trace of me than take everyone and everything with me. I have nothing against the world, its beautiful, I've had some amazing experiences in it and met some equally amazing people. Who am I to take that away from everyone?

Funny thing is, when I'm actively with a plan suicidal, I only want to take myself out and hope everyone else can live as long as they can and see some beauty in this world.

When only passively suicidal--yep, I'd take the universe out.

 

[ARW3N]

Sooner or later, if the Big Bang Theory is spot-on, the universe and time itself will come to an end. Knowing this, it's easy to understand one's true insignificance. No matter what you do, what you change, what you believe, it will all be over someday.

 

[BPD Barbie]

Funny thing is, when I'm actively with a plan suicidal, I only want to take myself out and hope everyone else can live as long as they can and see some beauty in this world.

When only passively suicidal--yep, I'd take the universe out.

Basically the same, I never want to hurt anyone even if they've hurt me. It's not in my nature. I just couldn't.

 

[Nnana]

I'd delete this hellish universe in a second if I had the power. I think that no happiness in this forsaken hellhole can make up for the abhorrent horrors that have happened or happen here on a daily basis. There's beauty, love, happiness, awe, amazing experiences? Yes, I can't deny the good aspect of life. But what about the horrible part? Have you ever googled medieval torture methods? What about holocaust? Wars? Bullying? Rape? Famine? Sickness? Extreme physical/mental suffering? Chronic pain? What about kids that are held captive by monsters and are tortured, beaten, cut alive, starved, tormented by days or years? Whoever thinks the good outweights the bad in this world is a sheltered or delusional person and needs a shock of reality, if possible trade places with the the most wretched human lives for a day and let's bet if they wouldn't change their minds. And even if extreme suffering is an experience of a very few, the happiness of billions can't be used to justify the torture of just one. Or who opposes it would volunteer to be the wretched one?

 

[LonelyHopelessDude]

I'd delete this hellish universe in a second if I had the power. I think that no happiness in this forsaken hellhole can make up for the abhorrent horrors that have happened or happen here on a daily basis. There's beauty, love, happiness, awe, amazing experiences? Yes, I can't deny the good aspect of life. But what about the horrible part? Have you ever googled medieval torture methods? What about holocaust? Wars? Bullying? Rape? Famine? Sickness? Extreme physical/mental suffering? Chronic pain? What about kids that are held captive by monsters and are tortured, beaten, cut alive, starved, tormented by days or years? Whoever thinks the good outweights the bad in this world is a sheltered or delusional person and needs a shock of reality, if possible trade places with the the most wretched human lives for a day and let's bet if they wouldn't change their minds. And even if extreme suffering is an experience of a very few, the happiness of billions can't be used to justify the torture of just one. Or who opposes it would volunteer to be the wretched one?

What about the happy kids, happy couples, happy families, happy disabled people ? They exist and they don't want to die.
Medieval torture methods ? They existed and they still exist today, they are used by horrible people against other people horrible or not. But what about the happy hardworking people in the medieval era.
Wars ? millions of people defending their family, their country, their village, hometown , sons, wife, during the entire history of mankind ? From the Battle of Megiddo the first battle to have been recorded in history to D-Day and the battle of Stalingrad , billions dying, all that for.....nothing ? Its thanks to all those people whatever the country they are from that today we can heal the people in need, that the majority of a country population can have correct living standards, even if a lot of us want to die and never asked to be born, the others still want to live.
You stated the Holocaust, the biggest genocide on earth. Would you be the author of the biggest genocide of the universe ? If you really had the choice, would you push a button that would engender the death of Billions maybe Trillions at a universal scale ?
Would you kill a random old dude, a random adult, a random child, a random baby, a random cat, a random dog for the reason you quoted ?

 

[Nnana]

What about the happy kids, happy couples, happy families, happy disabled people ? They exist and they don't want to die.
Medieval torture methods ? They existed and they still exist today, they are used by horrible people against other people horrible or not. But what about the happy hardworking people in the medieval era.
Wars ? millions of people defending their family, their country, their village, hometown , sons, wife, during the entire history of mankind ? From the Battle of Megiddo the first battle to have been recorded in history to D-Day and the battle of Stalingrad , billions dying, all that for.....nothing ? Its thanks to all those people whatever the country they are from that today we can heal the people in need, that the majority of a country population can have correct living standards, even if a lot of us want to die and never asked to be born, the others still want to live.
You stated the Holocaust, the biggest genocide on earth. Would you be the author of the biggest genocide of the universe ? If you really had the choice, would you push a button that would engender the death of Billions maybe Trillions at a universal scale ?
Would you kill a random old dude, a random adult, a random child, a random baby, a random cat, a random dog for the reason you quoted ?

And how many innocents haven't been tortured in the same horrific ways and still are? And since when wars are good? It only shows the nature of conflict of sentience. Would you happily go to a war or seeing your relatives suffering it's consequences? Wha'ts noble about people in the past suffering horrors so people in the future who don't exist and don't need to exist can have 'correct living standards'?

The holocaust caused gruesome suffering that people had to endure. If this button of course, is painless and kills people in an instant, I'd press it. If people died without pain I see no problem. It's done for a higher and more important purpose which is the end of universal suffering. We are talking about an hypothetical case scneario here , and I don't think happiness has much of a moral importance if any, in comparision to the alleviation of extreme suffering.