Venting if there was nothing for all time it would be an improvement on this universe

[Darkover]

The universe, as it exists, perpetuates a cycle of suffering, struggle, and survival. This hostile environment forces creatures to hunt, kill, and endure pain to maintain their existence. The indifference of the universe to the suffering it generates positions it not as a benevolent creator, but as a neutral mechanism that perpetuates harm simply by existing. From this perspective, a state of eternal nothingness—free from suffering and need—would be a logical improvement over a universe rife with unavoidable suffering.

Life is characterized by an endless struggle to meet basic needs such as hunger, thirst, safety, and companionship. These needs are never permanently satisfied, creating a perpetual cycle of striving and temporary relief. This cycle imposes physical, emotional, and psychological burdens on all sentient beings.

Additionally, the natural order of life—where creatures must hunt and kill others to survive—reflects a deeply hostile system. Predation, disease, environmental threats, and disasters ensure that suffering is unavoidable. Life's inherent hostility is further compounded by the emotional toll of relationships, societal pressures, and the fear of mortality.

The universe operates with complete neutrality, indifferent to the suffering it generates. Natural processes, devoid of intent or morality, continue to perpetuate harm without any purpose. This indifference renders the universe not as a kind or purposeful creator, but as a mechanism that exists without regard for the well-being of its inhabitants.

Suffering is a universal and certain aspect of existence. It is profound, enduring, and often outweighs any fleeting moments of pleasure. In contrast, pleasure is conditional, temporary, and fragile, easily disrupted by illness, loss, or unmet needs. A single moment of extreme suffering can overshadow a lifetime of happiness, highlighting the imbalance between these experiences.

Furthermore, the pleasures of life do not justify the pain required to sustain existence. In a state of non-existence, there would be no suffering to compensate for, nor any need for pleasure to counterbalance harm.

Non-existence is free from harm by definition. Without existence, there are no beings to experience pain, fear, or despair. Eternal nothingness avoids the negatives of existence without creating new harms.

Suffering is certain and pervasive in existence.

Pleasure, while possible, is not guaranteed and does not outweigh suffering.

Non-existence eliminates suffering entirely.

Therefore, eternal nothingness represents a moral improvement over existence.

The universe, in its indifference, has created a hostile environment where suffering is inescapable and survival requires harm. Life's pleasures are insufficient to outweigh its pains, and the endless cycle of need offers no permanent satisfaction. In contrast, eternal nothingness avoids all harm and suffering, presenting a state of true neutrality. From this perspective, nothingness for all time would indeed be an improvement over the existence of this universe.

 

[Pluto]

 

[alienfreak]

For us it is this way, but is that still the correct conclusion if for most people their neurons perceive it differently and for them the suffering doesn't outweigh the pleasures of life?

 

[Darkover]

For us it is this way, but is that still the correct conclusion if for most people their neurons perceive it differently and for them the suffering doesn't outweigh the pleasures of life?

Your question introduces the possibility that for some (or even most), existence is worthwhile. However:

This doesn't invalidate the argument for eternal nothingness—it shifts the focus to whether the suffering of any individual can be justified by the pleasures of others.

Is it fair for those who suffer to endure their pain simply because others find life acceptable or enjoyable?
Can the suffering of even a minority be morally justified by the pleasures of others?

 

[Forever Sleep]

You could well be right but sadly, I think it ultimately comes down to:

'There's no point in crying over spilled milk.'

Whether good or bad, right or wrong, the universe formed in this way and we all were blessed or cursed to be born into it. Neither of those things we can change. No one has the power to destroy all life and eradicate the possibility of it returning also. Asides possibly from the sun one day but, even then, we don't know whether life exists elsewhere or, whether it could possibly exist in this space again.

All each of us can do for us as individuals if we truly hate all the suffering here is to make choices that reduce it's probability: Antinatalism, veganism, buying products and disposing of products responsibly. Then, I suppose, if we can't cope with it anymore, ultimately we might risk suicide.

Also- you don't know for sure that life doesn't exist some place else in this galaxy and, you don't know whether that life is suffering. Their ecosystem could be entirely different to ours. Maybe all of them live in harmony and photosynthesize for their food. Maybe they're not even conscious to feel pain.

I do understand hating this place and, wishing it had never come about. It's also an interesting moral question- would it be kinder for life never to have sprung up in the universe? Let's say you're right though. Now what?

To be honest, it just feels like philosophy in general to me. When I was young, I hoped that philosophy would tell me all the answers to make life make sense. But, it just seemed to be a bunch of questions with no finite answers! Just matters of opinions backed up with arguments.

Even if this one has an answer, it still doesn't seem comforting. All it really is is: 'Let's all agree that this is bad.' Which a lot won't agree with but, even if they did- none of us can stop all of it. I guess there's voluntary extinction for the human race but, I just can't see people complying. Other than that, sit tight and wait for the sun to die I guess. At least we can die. Imagine if we were immortal but still suffered?