Discussion I trully believe nature is cruel, and whatever pain it causes to its living creatures, human and an

[Paredla]

animal, it causes it with an aware intention to hurt

Is it coincidence that no soul on earth, be it human or animal, asked to be born here ,can't leave existence by its own terms and during its life, it is most likely to deal with harsh, exhausting, soul draining situations? Even if not many, they can still impact the creature, traumatise him and cause him a long term suffer. Is it coincidence that our body is programmed both to feel pain and avoid it, and that healthy practices can be actually painful, but the things that make our brain release dopamine are not healthy? Is it coincidence that biology creates unattractive shapes of body and face, and our brain releases dopamine only when we see an attractive person? Is it coincidence that human and animals can reproduce how much they want, make a whole ocean of people and animals, but the size of planet earth and its natural resources don't grow accordingly to provide that population? Is it coincidence that our body is programmed to avoid death even though death is inevitable, and when one wants to take matters to his own hands die by himself, there are higher chances that his body will be severly injured and he'll feel an indscribable pain and he'll still survive it and continue to live with damages caused to him? Our body prefers to live a horribly low quality of life with a severe brain damage rather than end this torture and just let the soul go painlessly.
This screams "intention".

 

[NoChoice]

First of all, I honestly think it's good you think on this level although ignorance is bliss. I would actually say that yes, most of these things are in fact coincidences. I am somewhat of a depressed nihilist at this point so I will try to play devil's advocate here and be optimistically pragmatic for the sake of the thread and all who may read or participate:

Most of these things I would argue are primal/primordial mechanisms that had an astronomical amount of direct ancient evolutionary value, use and importance. In this sense it is not a coincidence these things occur, but I don't think the things you describe were necessarily these mechanisms intended effects or primary purpose but instead how it has ended up playing out across time. Pain is good, without it you would likely harm yourself without knowing and die quickly without understanding why that's bad, it also creates a reference point and allows for pleasure to have value and uniqueness.

This is a universe of opposites, I think that is the most fundamental law; without one, the opposite cannot exist, function or having meaning and this applies to just about everything. Everything is also relative in that for one to understand somethings full value they must also have experienced its opposite (love-hate, pleasure-pain, rich-poor, tall-short, sweet-sour, cold-hot, you get the idea this list goes on forever). @TheRiverStyz brought up something in the Life After Death Thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/life-after-death.10972/ which I thought was profound which essentially boiled down to the question of: what does pain really mean in hell if pain is all you know for eternity? It's a good question that's not easy to answer.

Over population could be a problem but we still have quite a bit of space the way I see it, especially if we become an even slightly intergalactic species at some point. Over population could be argued to be somewhat of a triumph for a species to reach as opposed to extinction. Not everyone is suffering, and not everyone's life is all pleasure or all suffering. Things can change quickly but some people do have more or less of one or the other. Someone else's pleasure could come directly from your pain, it sucks but that's how things work. We are programmed to live, that is our primary purpose and it goes back to what I was saying about primordial genetic code and mechanism, without that no form of life would've survived its own inception and we wouldn't be here to discuss this, so it is needed although it can have drawbacks such as the ones you describe.

Lastly, I would disagree that the things that make our brain release dopamine are unhealthy. There are many things such as eating, exercising, learning, talking, love, sex and so much more that are both good and release dopamine. Dopamine isn't necessarily the reward and pleasure itself, it is a neurotransmitter that tells us to do something again to experience the pleasure we had when or after doing it, as far as we know; increasing dopamine doesn't necessarily imply someone will be happier or experience more pleasure, it is much more complex than that and the same thing goes for serotonin. I would also say that unfortunately religion and government have collaborated for arguable and questionable reasons to mislead us that certain things that "release dopamine" and we enjoy are bad for us (drugs and even sex etc.). This is bad for a number of reasons aside from the obvious, one being that it trains us from a young age to not trust ourselves and our intrinsic instincts which, I believe, takes a fundamental element of power away from an individual from within themselves and outsources it to becoming obedient and going against their own desire(s) without reason.

I hope this is a decent answer for you and tells you that you are not alone to think these things; these are all good questions. Overall, I would say nature is not inherently or intentionally designed to make you suffer, although it is a byproduct of this particular existence and governing set of physical laws that allow everything to function. The same things that love you and give you the most pleasure can also be the things that hurt you and inflict the most pain. There are fundamental flaws that cause any philosophically minded individual to have existential crises, but natures intent is not to be pure suffering or else our species would've/could've killed itself a long time ago. In fact, suffering has steadily decreased historically (while quality of life increases) overall and there is usually enough pleasure to keep someone going or else they wouldn't.

 

[waived]

I trully believe nature is cruel, and whatever pain it causes to its living creatures, human and animal, it causes it with an aware intention to hurt

There is no bias and nature isn't an entity or even a singular thing.

 

[NoChoice]

Can you change the title so the thread doesn't go to waste? I feel as though it's actually a pretty good topic.

 

[Strumgewehr]

animal, it causes it with an aware intention to hurt

Is it coincidence that no soul on earth, be it human or animal, asked to be born here ,can't leave existence by its own terms and during its life, it is most likely to deal with harsh, exhausting, soul draining situations? Even if not many, they can still impact the creature, traumatise him and cause him a long term suffer. Is it coincidence that our body is programmed both to feel pain and avoid it, and that healthy practices can be actually painful, but the things that make our brain release dopamine are not healthy? Is it coincidence that biology creates unattractive shapes of body and face, and our brain releases dopamine only when we see an attractive person? Is it coincidence that human and animals can reproduce how much they want, make a whole ocean of people and animals, but the size of planet earth and its natural resources don't grow accordingly to provide that population? Is it coincidence that our body is programmed to avoid death even though death is inevitable, and when one wants to take matters to his own hands die by himself, there are higher chances that his body will be severly injured and he'll feel an indscribable pain and he'll still survive it and continue to live with damages caused to him? Our body prefers to live a horribly low quality of life with a severe brain damage rather than end this torture and just let the soul go painlessly.
This screams "intention".

I feel the same. Suffering is indeed the default setting in nature.

 

[Sickman75]

So why is it really that bad and we have to blame nature? It always has been nature vs nurture.
That's the first thing you learn about society as a whole

 

[Paredla]

Can you change the title so the thread doesn't go to waste? I feel as though it's actually a pretty good topic.

I wish I could. When I first pressed "edit" it didn't let me edit the title and now I can't even find the "edit" button.

 

[c824767]

animals are often perceived as cruel. Humans are, by nature, not cruel unless they are mentally ill.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

You might like the antinatalism/efilism philosophy