First of all, I would like to thank everyone for responding to me. I must say that I can't remember another place on the internet where I felt so comfortable exposing myself without being judged, where everyone seems to have a genuine will to help, very different from the pro-choice sites where people are rarely there for anything other than trying to assert to themselves that they are good people with superior views of others' lives. Thanks for that.
Since I found much that was said to be pertinent, perhaps this answer will get a bit long, as I will try to quote everything and complement it with what I have decided in the course of this week. The things that I doubt the most and the things that I need the most help with will be in
orange. The main changes in my strategy will be in
blue.
I've run through these questions also. I'm using SN However, I plan to be on a kayak after ingesting. Hopefully, it puts me in a subconscious state quickly and I roll off the kayak for insurance. Will be late at night. I'm going to snag my bracelet on the little rope that loops the kayak's cockpit so I don't sink and have turtles crawling out of my asshole when I finally float back up.
Have you anyone you trust who could mail the letter the day you actually do it? Then no danger of you backing out and, "Fuck! Now I have to intercept that thing!"
If not, mail It and be prepared to hang out at your mom's to "be a sweet child and fetch her mail" fir a couple of days.
Congrats on the SN! Mine had a shipping SNAFU so I'm waiting a few more days.
Since I got all this feedback I decided to go read the PPH (which I also translated into my language, Portuguese, and shared in another post, in case anyone is interested [
here ] ), and
now my strategy is different.
I will also use SN. For a moment I was in doubt between nitrogen, nembutal and SN. It wouldn't be especially difficult to get everything needed for a death with an inert gas, but I worry about the possible mistakes I can make in the execution, as well as the fact that it is not practical for transportation, since, as I said before, I won't do anything at home. Since I live in Brazil, a neighboring country of Peru, I thought it might be easier to get Nembutal than in the rest of the world, but I was wrong, it is equally difficult and expensive.
SN seems to me to be the best way out, even though
I need to make several excuses to buy all the drugs to potentiate and prevent vomiting.
I am aware that what I want to do is like
those chain reaction videos where they try to do a simple task in the most complicated way possible , the difference is that people spend months building these things and test hundreds of times before the final shot, and I am trying to do everything with a vague prediction of future events. I know it is impossible for everything to happen as I expect, but doing complicated things like going to a remote place and hoping someone will find me is just asking for it to go wrong.
I am thinking of staying in a hotel that has emotional significance for me. This will help a lot with the time issue, since I won't be without being found for more than one day.
This contrasts with the need to involve few people, since a hotel employee (or more than one) will have to find my body, call the emergency services, create some chaos with the other guests... I don't know yet how to solve this dilemma.
You asked if there is someone I trust to send the letter to. No, unfortunately I am alone in this. I also don't like the idea of sending it by mail, as it will create a big chaos until the letter reaches my parents. I had commented about sending a programmed email, but I am afraid that something will go wrong in the execution and my parents will receive the letter with me alive. This would create problems that I am not willing to deal with. Ideally in my view someone would contact them if I don't get in touch for a certain period of time.
Could someone here do this?
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but did you consider telling your mother about it first? By the sound of it, the news of your death will be traumatic no matter how much it's sugar-coated or prolongued. Maybe she will understand it more if you explain your decision to her beforehand?
As I said, I'm sure everyone here has the best of intentions, but what you said is out of the question. I have been in this situation before and there will be an intervention, and that is the last thing I need.
I'm not pro-life, I'm pro-choice, but I highly recommend you to consider that your death will cause excruciating pain and psychological problems for your mom for the rest of her life. She will blame herself for not being able to notice your problem and help you.
Your death is not exclusively your own business. In fact, your non-existence will exclusively be the business of your loved ones.
Probably you are convinced that you have enough reasons to die, but do you have enough reasons to put all these pains on your mom?
Life sucks. I know. That's why we all are here. But you can make it much more meaningful and better if you take the responsibilities and continue your life no matter how painful it will be for you.
So I would like to ask you sincerely not to kill yourself until there are people around you who need you.
Be brave enough to stay.
There is nothing in this world that I consider more than the state that my parents will find themselves in from the instant they find out that their son is dead, especially my mother, who cannot be considered a stable person. I have been putting this off for months, but to what extent am I able (or willing) to put the interests of others ahead of my own? To what extent can I have a concern for others that no one else in the world has for me? Everyone has already given up on me, I know I sound like a crybaby desperate for attention when I say this and I don't like it, but unfortunately it is the truth, and to what extent should I continue not to give up on others?
I know you say this with the greatest possible desire to help, but "matter how painful it will be for you." doesn't seem to me the most appropriate thing to say to someone begging for help.
Im not planning on telling anyone, i really good at faking , to them it will be as if im happy and well.
I am going through the exact same thing. I believe there may be more "diplomatic" ways to inform, but most of the time people tell people they care about things like "you'll regret saying that" or "you'll miss me" and I fail to see how that is anything other than a mechanism to generate guilt and pain that can be avoided. It seems a bit cruel to other people to me. Of course, if it has come to the point of saying this kind of thing the person must be going through a pain where nothing matters but the overwhelming desire to end it, but I certainly find myself in a more analytical position of the situation and am willing to eat crow and swallow my pride to put those who will spend the rest of their lives with this burden on their backs in front of me.
I say this all the time, if you have something to live for than live. Caring about another humans feelings, regardless of who that human is, in my opinion, a reason to live. In my case, plenty of people pretend to care and perhaps some of them really do but I don't give a shit. Their feels will not end my suffering. Just my opinion on the matter.
I understand what you meant, but I believe it is possible to care about the feelings of other humans and at the same time try to put your own wants as priorities. It's certainly not easy, but who said it would be, right?
People pretend to care once you are gone but they are never there when you actually need them. Yea everyone is gonna self petty themselves they could have done something and feel sorry to make them feel better. Than a year goes by and the only time they will think of you is when you actually died and that will fade as well. Regardless of your position people will eventually move on with their lives whether you are alive or dead. So why should we suffer every single day for the rest of our lives while everyone is happy in their own.
Exactly. In the end that's all it is: feeling pity. That is very different from caring. Feeling pity or sorry is something that people feel to feel better about themselves, not really thinking about the one they feel pity for. It's like "I'm not a bad person because I pretend to be moved by something". Feeling pity is about fulfilling social and internal protocols.
In the last few weeks I have been thinking along the same lines as you, although in my case there is a real possibility that other people will try to kill themselves rather than just get on with their lives, they have lived long enough without my presence to know how to behave without it. After the mourning period, which is real and in which they cannot think straight, life will go on in the same way and everything will eventually return more or less to normal. Basing the choice of dying or living on how people will go through grief is too painful to be worthwhile, to say the least.
Actually I think killing yourself is not brave.
There are fast, reliable, painless methods that are less uncomfortable than having pedicure.
Staying alive no matter what takes much more courage. Again: I'm pro-choice. I don't judge anybody who decides to leave. But one must be aware of the consequences.
He is already considering the feelings of his mom and others. He feels bad about causing pain to his mom. That's why it's his responsibility to take a look at both sides of the equation.
I agree with you, it is not brave, even more so when one seeks a painless method, but at times staying alive seems a bit dumb to me. Remain suffering, knowing that here is not your place, just to not look like a coward to others is a masochistic attitude.
I also agree with you when it comes to my responsibilities. I have an impact on other people's lives and to take actions like this without caring about these lives is a highly selfish act, but as I said, to what extent can I put the lives of others before my own and to what extent can I suffer in silence? As you said, I have to analyze both sides of the equation and try to reconcile all interests, because also thinking only about others would also be cruel to myself.
There's nothing brave in continuing life, all one has to do is to eat shit sleep and repeat, there you are barely living at all.
Of course every suicide takes a brave heart, especially with hard traditional methods, otherwise I will just let my self crushed into pieces by train but I can't do that since I'm afraid of it, I must admit; But bravery is not really the main case here, the concern is more about peaceful methods that bring out good death to everyone who need to.
Back to the topic. For ingestion, I have prepared SN, however there are few other substances mentioned in PPH that has higher RPA score (reliability, peacefulness and availability). I reccomended OP to read the book (download it from pinned thread under suicide discussion)
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I think in the last few weeks I've been thinking a lot more about myself and what might be good for me and I think that's a very positive thing. Bravery and courage are nothing but a way to prove oneself to others and at a certain point in the life of a pre-suicide, he certainly stops caring about these things, or at least he cares less. Bravery really isn't main anymore, as you said.
I thank everyone who made a point of responding to me, but I am especially glad that you got more to the point. I did what you suggested and,
as I commented earlier, read the PPH. I am confident with the SN,
but have some questions about the medications that should be taken along with it. I made a document trying to summarize (
here ) what should be done. One of my biggest concerns is that I will fail to kill myself and that all chaos will be generated and I will have to face internment and things like that I know will happen, so
I am certainly going to test the SN days before. I also made a document summarizing the PPH data that I would also
appreciate if, if possible, you guys would take a look at to correct me (
here ). At the end there is a link from a reliable marketplace in my country
of an aquarium NO2 test. Is that seems good enough?
Having a parent or parents with significant mental health issues is a very difficult situation. A lifetime of really not having true "parenting" - the roles are reversed - the child has to become precociously responsible for adult decision making. As well, a mentally ill parent is likely to have made inappropriate decisions and been entirely unreliable as a guardian. Up to and including the spectrum from "neglect" to physical and emotional abuse. Sabotaging the child's ability to form relationships and bonding.
decades later it's with a sense of loss and grief to realize a parent was never really "present." Sure they may have been physically there but they're not really there, ever. Getting a hot meal on the table for dinner once a day is not parenting. Then - figuring out that "this isn't how all families are" - the trauma and the damage done by the fragile mental state of the parent(s) is profound.
In solidarity both my parents have significant mental health issues. Divorced when I was a teenager and then each has had several other partners. Both of them refuse any digital communications. both refuse email or text or any social media. No internet. no video chatting. no sharing the day to day through photos. It's not terribly different, really, than their lifelong pattern of being disconnected from reality.
it is with sadness but a sense of survival I finally had to mark out and establish distance. a few voice only phone calls a year. birthdays. mothers or Father's Day. sometimes that means after I leave a voicemail message it's days or weeks or even months before they return the call. I had to learn to not get invested in any of it.
only after making this boundary happen - was I able to find peace and a way forward in my own life with my own partner.
I put the last voice chat with each parent I've had recently on speaker so my partner could listen. because it was the only way I could just let it go - the inappropriateness and craziness and my partner then understood. understood how and why I'm struggling sometimes to be a better partner and a better person because my parents certainly provide little to no appropriate guidance there.
This was just recently I let my partner actually hear the conversations. No one would believe some of it unless they heard it first hand. Notice I'm not labeling. I'm not saying depression or any diagnosis because it transcends that. They also both now thankfully have partners who accept the way they are but oh my goodness that's quite an arrangement for each. I'll summarize by noting my couple of voice phone calls a year to my parents are "the most" compared to my siblings. One parent gets no contact at all with my sibs, the other is barely above "none."
My only fear now is one or both parents lose their partner.
my own partner having listened to actual conversations with my parents now understands why I have that fear. it will be very uncomfortable in that scenario to clarify I'm sorry for their loss but that's as far as I go.
this is probably my most personal post - but it feels like the OP deserves more than the responses so far which I donT feel overall are supportive or have empathy.
we can't know what the OP has been through but now some of you know a bit more about me.
All it takes is one phone conversation with one of my parents to cause days or weeks or months of triggered not good feelings.
let's not judge the OP's concern for his mother or the other significant people in his / her life.
I really identify with what you wrote. I know it's not fair that I, a person with some facility in zooming out of situations and analyzing things like a normal person, simply don't feel a responsibility to care about the situation of my mother, who simply doesn't have the same ability, but fair isn't always painful. I went through (and still am going through) some problems starting in the middle of last year and at the beginning of this year, when my mom started to get significantly worse, I decided that I couldn't just expect attitudes compatible to mine to be coming from her. She was the last person I had left that I could trust to have some support, since for some reason that I still don't really understand I started to distance myself from my friends and from everyone, and I realized that from the moment I made that decision I am completely alone and would need a lot of courage to continue feeling responsible for her. I don't regret, in fact I feel very proud, that I have never said or done a single thing that was not to prevent her from going completely crazy, like screaming or victimizing myself, because I know that she is as much a victim as I am, and I can take the pain that she cannot. This is why commenting on my suicidal plans, as suggested by another member above, is out of the question. A few weeks ago I believe she went for a period without medication and to be honest it was not easy at all to shield myself, in fact it was pretty painful. She called me the worst names possible and accused me of the worst things and just didn't realize it. I was very close to a complete mental breakdown because I felt like I was being knifed and couldn't scream. Eventually she came back on her medications and things became more supportable again. I know I make very tough decisions with myself that will never be reciprocated, but I think it's fairer that way. A few years ago, she tried to kill herself and I was in the next room. I know that it is not fair for me to have the same attitude. She didn't care about all the unresolved issues she had, including two small children, she didn't care about the trauma of seeing the emergency room going to try to resuscitate her own mother, the grief of two children who still depended on her or her husband who also suffered from various issues and I know I can't have that luxury because I'm not unstable like her and it just wouldn't be a fair situation, but it's still a big burden that I was determined to carry.
What you said about being present is also very relatable for me. I think the big problem with parents with mental health issues is the incorrect order of priorities. They may even really think that their children are priorities, but they do it by assuming that putting on a hot meal is the most they can do for their children, often this is done with the greatest possible good will, they just don't realize they could redirect their efforts to more important places in a child's life. I have only recently realized that "this is not how all families are", as you said, and the fairest option with the whole (which is not fair to the individual) is to accept that I was destined to be born sighted into a family of blind people, and that I will have to carry the burden of helping these people without worrying so much about my ego. To kill myself is to abandon this family of blind people in darkness, but to what extent am I responsible for their blindness?
I was moved when you started talking about yourself, because I identified. My parents are also separated, but they made the stupid decision to live together in the same house for the sake of their family responsibilities (also because it was cheaper) and this decision only created the worst environment for children to develop. I am glad that you were able to establish distance and that you were able to understand that you don't belong in this environment and that you can be happy if you find the right way to deal with it, which is still painful. Learning to be a normal human being on your own is not easy at all. You have to find solid ways of thinking, and this is very difficult.
Every day people who were not made or meant for each other will meet. Many of them make the mistake of getting into a relationship, many have children and end up being forced to spend the rest of their lives with some union, most of them can handle it relatively peacefully and find peace after a few years, but some people are SO incompatible that they generate deep dislike for each other and end up not being able to see the absurdities that make people who have nothing to do with this stupid decision to get into a relationship with someone so different go through. They certainly don't do it out of spite, they are just too focused on things that don't matter. Your case is admirable. To go through all that hell and become a normal person able to relate and find happiness is a great challenge and requires a lot of bravery.
I'm not saying it's the case with your parents, of course, I don't know them, but sometimes finding a partner who doesn't necessarily understand, but supports and tolerates their way of being, creates not exactly a healthy situation, because many times one will always be the escape valve and the punching bag of the other, but at least stable, and this is a great relief for all those who would have been the escape before. I am genuinely happy with the less troubled course your life has taken.
I didn't expect this to become a venting post, but it did and I'm glad you made it possible :)
Sometimes making someone or something your entire reason to stay ends up causing major resentment.. i know it has for me in the past at least. Chronic stress, pain, illness, and the failure of society plus any number of other things can dissolve a will to live and there's no cowardice in fighting your fight and wanting peace, imo.
The next time i give it a go, I'll probably do a scheduled email for those i keep up with out of the house. Less physical/tangible has caused less visceral grief in my experience of others in my life that have caught the bus. In my family, the instantly hard part is the grief plus the funerary plans. Then, getting copies of the certificate to give/mail to close accounts if there are any left open. Cooking and cleaning after have been near impossible tasks so if there's something you know can make it accessible to her like ubereats or equivalent could help minimize impact on the other side of things.
I agree. Putting yourself last is not a worthy way to live.
Dealing with the immediately difficult part is my only concern basically, I know that after the mourning period everyone has the capacity to adapt to life. I intend not to have a burial, for various reasons,
and I have yet to find a way to ensure this without generating alarm. As for cooking and cleaning, I will have to rely on my grandmother. This is far from being fair to her, as she will be suffering, but she is the only person who has a firm hand for this task. I have also left a document prepared with all the clauses of my mother's contract that might be useful, because worse than being in mourning, is being in mourning and without a job. Luckily her job allows for a good deal of flexibility.
In what particular choices is he free?
The choice between life and death is not a choice at all, but a necessity, a forced measure. Therefore, there is no "duty" involved.
Do what your desires tell you to do. We don't control them anyway...
Thanks for this. Really all my responsibilities currently have been assigned to me against my will and without my consent and it will be nice to do something that is my desire after a long time.
If you WANT to be stopped from ctb, tell someone. If not, keep your mouth shut and tell NO ONE. It's really that simple. And the other thing is that ending YOUR OWN PAIN has to be at the point where it is more important than any pain caused to others. CTB has to be a selfish act. Most people are bound to cause pain to someone else if they ctb. It's the nature of the beast. You're ready to go if you're past that.
I know this very well. The surprise factor when my parents get the news might be a little more painful for them, but honestly I think it's the only way. Well, about the rest of your text, I think I have said enough about it.
Points that are still confusing to me or that I need help with or elaborate more (it would also be helpful if you could send me links to other posts with the same topics):
- Making excuses to buy medicine (for my parents)
- Making excuses to get prescription (for a doctor)
- Further elaborate the suicide scenario (location, step by step, dilemma of the number of people involved...)
- Know if the place accepts cash (otherwise my mother will be alerted on the bank app)
- Method of sending the letter
- Find out which antivomit medicine and which brand of potentiator I will use (based on availability in my territory and which is more common, to avoid suspicion)
- Buy a precision scale
- Buy SN
- Buy distilled water
- Buy the antiemetic
- Know if a potentiator is really necessary, and if it is, make an online appointment with the doctor to get a prescription (may need a prescription for the antiemetic medicine)
- Buy the potentiator
- Buy 2ml pipette
- Find out which Nitrite test works and buy one (do aquarium tests work?)
- Find out how to make sure I don't have a funeral (just my request in the letter may not work) (I may have to go to a notary's office)
- Find out the best way to send the letter
I guess that's it for now. Thanks to everyone who responded :)
edit: could someone tell me how to do searches here? it could be useful to see brazilian posts. sorry for the dumbing
