not_a_robot

not_a_robot

"i hope the leaving is joyful, & never to return"
May 30, 2019
2,121
Ordered my Sn from that site named after A big river and rain forest. I will try not to spell out the site name in this post because I don't want to trigger G algorithms.
Sn arrived yesterday. Some other items on the same order were clothes I need to return. Needed them to change some details on the return for me so I called customer service.
Told them I need help on return.

Guy stalled a minute with
"so glad you're a prime member" type of shit.
Then he flat out goes
"Before I can proceed with this return I have to ask you. How are you feeling today?"
(*DING DING DING* )
I went "meh, you know, not great but ok."
He didn't like the sound of that.
So he goes
"And how are you feeling about other things in your life? Are things ok?"
I went
"The rest of my life is going like this return. I messed it up the first time and now I'm trying to fix it."

The phrase "trying to fix" seemed to satisfy them. Plus I put a lot of emphasis throughout the call on *future* things like
"when my refund is processed *next week*"
"I will re-order those pants in a smaller size *next week*"
"Go ahead and refund it to my A account, I will spend it *next month* anyway"
Even made sure to talk optimistically and joke with myself while he had me on hold (they listen while you're on hold), although I did make one joke about suffocating myself with the plastic garment bag in my packaging.
Joked around about ordering wrong size clothes, etc.

So I hope all the "future" talk counts as a "promise not to harm myself today".
I just played the whole thing out as if I had no idea why he was being so nosy, but I knew immediately. They can not only see that I bought Sn but also that I've searched meto and other suicide supplies. So they know exactly what I am up to. Hopefully they don't send anyone to "check on me."

FB, G, A, NF, and all other huge sites have been equipped with algorithms to detect suicidal patterns of speech and behavior and automatically dispatch police for a welfare check. I assume I triggered something like that.

What I can't figure is, if they're so fucking "concerned" about me, why not call me to see how I'm doing *before* sending the Sn? If I hadn't bought the wrong size pants and called for help returning them, would they have just let me suicide in peace with my Sn?
A has called me out of the blue several times before just to ask about changes I made on my account, so if they're so worried about suicide, why wait and make "counselling" me a priority *after* I buy the wrong pants and call in myself? I could have used my Sn Monday morning when it arrived and been dead, so why wait for me to call in, when they have ever been shy about calling me before for other stuff?

And I definitely didn't imagine it, he asked me three times about my life and how I feel before he would proceed with my return. Vague answers did not satisfy him. This definitely was not just small talk.

I am disgusted at the extent of our surveillance culture. A can see clearly from the pattern of my purchases that I am a shut-in who can barely leave my apartment. Who the fuck are they to give a fuck whether I suicide? Is my 400$ a month in food and household supply purchases such a fucking priority for them? Jesus fucking christ.

Anyway, be aware that all big websites have these algorithms. Be prepared with "future" statements at all times, even in unrelated conversations, because they won't tell you you're being evaluated for suicidality, and you're also supposed to be too dumb to notice it.

And be careful what size pants you buy online.
Will add article about algorithms shortly.
Also, A should not be able to see my activity here directly if they are spying on devices because I use a different device for financial transactions, but who knows?
It's the Panopticon. They all see everything.

Here is one article on it but I recommend to do a search on "suicide prevention algorithms" and read a few different articles, learn as much as you can, don't get "rescued". Fuck there's an ambulance driving by right now it just stopped, don'tbeforme, don'tbeforme!
 
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Bulletwbttrflywings

Bulletwbttrflywings

My soul is awakened... and I’m f*cked
May 29, 2019
244
I didn't even think about that but it makes sense. Big brother is always watching...
 
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Midnight

Midnight

Beyond solace
Jun 30, 2018
624
That's fucked up. Glad i never bought anything ctb related online. Apart from browsing and posting here there's not much to go on (well it's more than enough for "them" to connect the dots but hey i won't announce any plans anyway. And it's provably years away from today i'm afraid)

Thanks for the heads-up.
 
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WinterIsComing

WinterIsComing

Fragile...
May 27, 2019
256
Ok they want to follow suicidal people? And then what? Bring them to the psych ward? And then?

Really....no real help ‍♀️
 
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J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
Well isn't that nice? Lol. They're probably just trying to cover their ass legally and PR-wise: wouldn't want to get any negative suicide-related publicity.

It's strange they specifically asked you about this: makes me wonder whether this is organized or just individual initiative.
 
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A

AsexualBarbieBoy

Member
Jun 7, 2019
87
Glad I got off most of those big sites. The only unavoidable one is G but luckily i do most of my research here and in library (although I do wonder what the librarian thought when i took out four books on suicide, probably wondering if they'll evr get returned).
 
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A

Aliaiactaest

Student
Jun 7, 2019
184
Interesting story. Maybe it's because you are a prime member. They are really trying to increase retention of prime members!
 
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J

Jen0804

Gone
Feb 24, 2019
261
Wow thants unbelievable
If eBay does this I guess I am doomed

Creepy...
thanks for the reminder though that some sites we assume are not tracking us probably are
Will disabling tracking cookies help?
How to disable tracking cookies in every browser
 
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Ldog9

Ldog9

Student
Jan 12, 2019
144
If I had to make a guess, I'd say this was a good Samaritan customer service rep. Because I can't imagine they would be training employees to counsel/inquire ppl about suicide or even call police on them. That would open them up to a lot of liability issues. There's no incentive for them as a company to pursue this, and like you said it was after you already ordered everything. The company doesn't care, it sounds like this individual person may have though.

They already have a ton of bad press about their labor practices, "I got hired as a customer service rep and I also act as a suicide hotline" would not be a headline they'd be seeking.
 
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Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
4,704
Mercy. Does this mean all their call center personnel get training to assess possibly-suicidal prime customers? Or are calls from your phone now routed directly to a call-in psychotherapist who also knows how to process returns?
 
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SinisterKid

SinisterKid

Visionary
Jun 1, 2019
2,113
SN has become regulated in the UK. I put my order in, it was processed within seconds, e mail arrives telling me it will be dispatched the next day and with by.... I am a very happy customer, thank you very much. A couple of hours later, I get another e mail asking what my purpose was for buying SN and that I need to provide photo ID and a company number and address. The sellers who dont ask for any of this appear to be gaining a reputation for providing school laboratory quality SN, which is not much use for its intended purpose. Look for suitable alternative sources.
 
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Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
4,704
If I had to make a guess, I'd say this was a good Samaritan customer service rep. Because I can't imagine they would be training employees to counsel/inquire ppl about suicide or even call police on them. That would open them up to a lot of liability issues. There's no incentive for them as a company to pursue this, and like you said it was after you already ordered everything. The company doesn't care, it sounds like this individual person may have though.

They already have a ton of bad press about their labor practices, "I got hired as a customer service rep and I also act as a suicide hotline" would not be a headline they'd be seeking.

Ha - I was typing while you were posting that. But if a rogue employee tried getting all "concerned" about my intentions I'd slap 'em right through the phone.
 
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not_a_robot

not_a_robot

"i hope the leaving is joyful, & never to return"
May 30, 2019
2,121
If I had to make a guess, I'd say this was a good Samaritan customer service rep. Because I can't imagine they would be training employees to counsel/inquire ppl about suicide or even call police on them. That would open them up to a lot of liability issues. There's no incentive for them as a company to pursue this, and like you said it was after you already ordered everything. The company doesn't care, it sounds like this individual person may have though.

They already have a ton of bad press about their labor practices, "I got hired as a customer service rep and I also act as a suicide hotline" would not be a headline they'd be seeking.
What makes you think their customer service reps are human?
I tried to find a better clip for this but there's an AI customer care call in this clip.
I briefly wanted to ask my guy if he was human but I just wanted to get through the counseling and make my return.

Mercy. Does this mean all their call center personnel get training to assess possibly-suicidal prime customers? Or are calls from your phone now routed directly to a call-in psychotherapist who also knows how to process returns?
Neither. The AI does it all. The first time an actual hooman is involved is the cops that come to your door if you say the wrong thing to the bots.

And cops shoot suicidal people *all the time.* They have to kill us, to save us.
Ha - I was typing while you were posting that. But if a rogue employee tried getting all "concerned" about my intentions I'd slap 'em right through the phone.
Can't slap AI.
 
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Ldog9

Ldog9

Student
Jan 12, 2019
144
What makes you think their customer service reps are human?
I tried to find a better clip for this but there's an AI customer care call in this clip.
I briefly wanted to ask my guy if he was human but I just wanted to get through the counseling and make my return.
An AI talking to ppl about suicide would be even more legally dangerous for them.
Neither. The AI does it all. The first time an actual hooman is involved is the cops that come to your door if you say the wrong thing to the bots.

And cops shoot suicidal people *all the time.* They have to kill us, to save us.

Can't slap AI.
... not sure if you're serious or not. IIRC they use a combination of humans and chatbots for their chatroom customer service rep.

If they were using fully voiced (indistinguishable to human) AI customer service reps... it'd be huge news. I'm really failing to see the reason they'd roll this tech out with and implement some kind of 'suicide counsel' function to them as well.
 
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Bulletwbttrflywings

Bulletwbttrflywings

My soul is awakened... and I’m f*cked
May 29, 2019
244
@not_a_robot - this post made me realize who A was... -_-
good grief
 
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WinterIsComing

WinterIsComing

Fragile...
May 27, 2019
256
SN has become regulated in the UK. I put my order in, it was processed within seconds, e mail arrives telling me it will be dispatched the next day and with by.... I am a very happy customer, thank you very much. A couple of hours later, I get another e mail asking what my purpose was for buying SN and that I need to provide photo ID and a company number and address. The sellers who dont ask for any of this appear to be gaining a reputation for providing school laboratory quality SN, which is not much use for its intended purpose. Look for suitable alternative sources.

Its funny how much effort they put in not giving the materials but not in the solution.
 
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DoomedxFromBirth

DoomedxFromBirth

Waste of Agony
Jun 1, 2019
139
The ambulance part made me smile on the bus. You ruined my permanent death face for a second lol
 
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A

Aliaiactaest

Student
Jun 7, 2019
184
If I had to make a guess, I'd say this was a good Samaritan customer service rep. Because I can't imagine they would be training employees to counsel/inquire ppl about suicide or even call police on them. That would open them up to a lot of liability issues. There's no incentive for them as a company to pursue this, and like you said it was after you already ordered everything. The company doesn't care, it sounds like this individual person may have though.

They already have a ton of bad press about their labor practices, "I got hired as a customer service rep and I also act as a suicide hotline" would not be a headline they'd be seeking.

I am almost certain it is corporate policy. Amazon would never allow a rep to go rogue like that.
 
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lululoo

lululoo

Mage
Dec 15, 2018
558
I am almost certain it is corporate policy. Amazon would never allow a rep to go rogue like that.
I really don't think so. I think @Ldog9 is right. Amazon can't control what every rep says down to the word. And many of the reps don't have English as their first language, so what sounds like a weird/nosy question might just be their attempt to be friendly and caring. There is motivation for them to be extra caring and get you to like them, because it affects their ratings, which affects their compensation.
 
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not_a_robot

not_a_robot

"i hope the leaving is joyful, & never to return"
May 30, 2019
2,121
An AI talking to ppl about suicide would be even more legally dangerous for them.

... not sure if you're serious or not. IIRC they use a combination of humans and chatbots for their chatroom customer service rep.

If they were using fully voiced (indistinguishable to human) AI customer service reps... it'd be huge news. I'm really failing to see the reason they'd roll this tech out with and implement some kind of 'suicide counsel' function to them as well.
Your failure to see the reasoning has no bearing on whether or not things exist. How much of this world have you ever known to be "reasonable"?
Fucking Facebook put the Pussy Grabber in the White House, and you're still trying to split hairs over what's "reasonable"?

Ok you're right. The technology doesn't exist and they would never use it if it did, because in this world people, and especially corporations, only do what's "reasonable."
I really don't think so. I think @Ldog9 is right. Amazon can't control what every rep says down to the word. And many of the reps don't have English as their first language, so what sounds like a weird/nosy question might just be their attempt to be friendly and caring. There is motivation for them to be extra caring and get you to like them, because it affects their ratings, which affects their compensation.
yeah. and I bet I just fabricated all those articles about suicide prevention algorithms too. You are so right. I made it all up.
 
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lululoo

lululoo

Mage
Dec 15, 2018
558
yeah. and I bet I just fabricated all those articles about suicide prevention algorithms too. You are so right. I made it all up.
I never said you made it up. I'm just reaching different conclusions about it. I have had weird convos with A staff too. Not quite as weird as yours, but weird.

And obviously you didn't fabricate those articles. But I think the facebook thing is a bit different.
 
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been_there

been_there

Life cares only for itself.
Jun 5, 2019
297
Dunno about creepy, terrifying is the only word for surveillance capitalism. That it doesn't seem to bother everyone, just shows how easily people would adapt to enabling jobs within any new dictatorship. That and the stanford and milgram experiments. I'm grateful to be gone before all this is fully realised.
 
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Ldog9

Ldog9

Student
Jan 12, 2019
144
well for one amazon still hires thousands of thousands of customer service reps and has a ton of csr job listings across the world...

a reason =/= "reasonable". (don't know why you put in quotes, since i didn't even write it). i'm not seeking a 'reasonable' explanation, how about just A reason. any reason? facebook, for example, had issues with ppl livestreaming their suicides on their platform. this is obviously bad for them. their algorithm scans posts for potentially at risk people, and THEN elevates it to HUMANS, who investigate themselves to determine what course of action to do.

and i disagree, you can very easily determine a corporations, especially ones as large as amazon, 'reasons' for doing ANYTHING; it's objective is profit. i'm questioning where the profit is to make top secret AI customer service reps with suicide counseling abilities... that uh only goes into affect IF you initialize a return for a separate product. like what if you never called for a return? also unsure why you're convinced it's a voiced AI and not just a human?
 
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K

Kaput

Here, now
Apr 10, 2019
347
there was somthing recently on social media about a petition to take s n off am zon. after the passing of the girl now in the news. perhaps this is why
 
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P

PBis

Member
May 24, 2019
33
SN has become regulated in the UK. I put my order in, it was processed within seconds, e mail arrives telling me it will be dispatched the next day and with by.... I am a very happy customer, thank you very much. A couple of hours later, I get another e mail asking what my purpose was for buying SN and that I need to provide photo ID and a company number and address. The sellers who dont ask for any of this appear to be gaining a reputation for providing school laboratory quality SN, which is not much use for its intended purpose. Look for suitable alternative sources.

Holy crap, that's bad news... I got my SN from a UK company at the start of this month - "99% / food grade" - they can't very well sell it like that if it's anything else, right?? Well it better be, or I will soon end up looking like an absolute ass...

You might want to post this on the SN megathread, as it looks like vital information to me. Many of the eb sellers are based in the UK...
 
J

jake3d

Enlightened
May 29, 2019
1,033
SN has become regulated in the UK. I put my order in, it was processed within seconds, e mail arrives telling me it will be dispatched the next day and with by.... I am a very happy customer, thank you very much. A couple of hours later, I get another e mail asking what my purpose was for buying SN and that I need to provide photo ID and a company number and address.

Get it from Poland.
 
dreamsofdestruction

dreamsofdestruction

Everywhere I look is chaos
May 9, 2019
340
"And how are you feeling about other things in your life? Are things ok?"

What the hell, that behavior from an online retailer would really creep me the fuck out.

But yeah, it also doesn't even make sense to do this on a support call about a return that just happened by chance. I really wonder what went on there.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say this was a good Samaritan customer service rep. Because I can't imagine they would be training employees to counsel/inquire ppl about suicide or even call police on them. That would open them up to a lot of liability issues. There's no incentive for them as a company to pursue this, and like you said it was after you already ordered everything. The company doesn't care, it sounds like this individual person may have though.

That actually seems to be the most plausible explanation.
 
Egddios

Egddios

Specialist
Oct 27, 2018
395
The title of this thread had me thinking with astonishment that not only does A provide N, but he also offeres counseling! I was like damn, what a guy!
 
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been_there

been_there

Life cares only for itself.
Jun 5, 2019
297
That would be bad business no?
 
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