Discussion I have Narcissistic Personality Disorder (AMA)

[NormallyNeurotic]

Narcissism is definitely a touchy subject (I could talk more about that fact), but I figure that the best way to actually add nuance to a topic is to just... let people ask questions.

So hi! I have NPD aka Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This is a lil snippet of my story:

I developed the traits young due to various types of abuse and neglect, and I finally realized I had it in my mid-teens.

My journey of healing and understanding myself was hard and I found myself turning into a doormat at times to avoid expressing any sort of non-humble trait. I essentially tried to fix my NPD with no therapy, and no realistic sympathetic depiction or discussion of narcissism, so it led to a lot of internalized issues (like worsening Moral OCD).

I tried to bring it up to a therapist, but she basically said I was "too nice" to be a narcissist and blamed these traits I was struggling with on another disorder I have. I believed her for a while and dissociated harder from my narcissism—therefore repressing and ignoring the unresolved trauma that caused it—for years.

I finally allowed myself to acknowledge it when I started talking to more people with stigmatized disorders like NPD, ASPD, AvPD, etc. Took while to go from "I have BPD" to "I have BPD with narcissistic traits" to " I have both BPD and NPD and that's okay" but I got there.


I wanted to make this thread so people could ask questions because I think it'd be nice to actually talk more about the facts of NPD instead of the pop psychology abuser caricature of it.

Ask any question you want, if it's genuinely too uncomfortable to discuss I'll just say that. Also before we start... yes, I have DID, yes multiple alters have NPD, no not all of them do.

hi to the lovely peeps from my profile who encouraged me to do this. you rock

 

[me_when_:D]

self-aware people with NPD are quite rare, how did you found out about you having NPD?

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

self-aware people with NPD are quite rare, how did you found out about you having NPD?

It's actually not as rare as one might think.

I've had more issues with autistic people who refuse to acknowledge that their aversion to change & stubborn demeanor are making them misunderstood nuanced situations and jump to conclusions (both sides of my family are made up of mostly autistic people and I grew up in special needs schools. I have met more autistic people than allistics)

Narcissists being un-self-aware is just as common as other neurodivergencies being that way. It's just that people confuse general sadism and selfishness for NPD. Humans are inherently selfish creatures. We're animals, after all. Pack animals, but we've turned away from community, so now we focus too much on survival.

Anyway, for your answer
I found out because I was destroying friendships. A lot of these people were also dysregulated (some I've since reconnected with!) but I had an issue with making myself the center of attention and feeling that I as being snubbed if I wasn't included. I had a hard time understanding others feelings, because I lack Affective Empathy and hadn't practiced enough Cognitive Empathy yet.

I also had very few real connections at that point and I got possessive of those that I viewed as my only friends, and my found family. I literally called these people my siblings.

I had researched psychology since I was a kid. Growing up autistic made it clear that the only way to survive was to study human behavior. I had to pretend to be human the way they were (I honestly don't feel human at all nowadays but that's not completely related to the NPD). Because of that, I knew the basics of NPD from a DSM perspective, but I had also internalized a lot of the media stereotypes as well, so the discovery wasn't all sunshine and rainbows.

 

[itsgone2]

Hello. I also have all the traits of npd. It has certainly ruined my life and greatly affected people around me. I see it now and have changed, but it many ways it's too late.
However, my therapist says that a person could never really recognize a personality disorder. That I have certainly exhibited all those traits , but to be self aware and want to change, that I couldn't really have a disorder.
I'm assuming you disagree? I've always had a hard time with it. She gave a good explanation as to what she meant, but then I also think, what's the difference. It's how I acted and it messed up people I care about.
Anyway, was curious on your perspective about that.

 

[whitetaildeer]

If it's okay to ask: If you were at your lowest point mentally, how could a friend most effectively support you? I know a pwNPD and I worry I don't/can't do enough for them.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Hello. I also have all the traits of npd. It has certainly ruined my life and greatly affected people around me. I see it now and have changed, but it many ways it's too late.
However, my therapist says that a person could never really recognize a personality disorder. That I have certainly exhibited all those traits , but to be self aware and want to change, that I couldn't really have a disorder.
I'm assuming you disagree? I've always had a hard time with it. She gave a good explanation as to what she meant, but then I also think, what's the difference. It's how I acted and it messed up people I care about.
Anyway, was curious on your perspective about that.

Allllright, this'll be a very long read. Sorry


A disorder listed in the DSM that the patient themselves could never identify or want to change is absurd to think about. Even people with severe psychosis can briefly realize that something is very wrong. Hell, even people with dementia have lucid moments!

There is no evidence that someone with a personality disorder cannot tell the have one/want to get better. Personality disorders are collections of maladaptive traits that are both enabled by genetic predisposition and "activated" by trauma. That's like saying you can't read a list of symptoms and go "huh, that's kind of like me, maybe I should get checked."

Your therapist is using old talking points from the "female hysteria" era of medicine. Of course the patient "can never tell" if they have a disorder when the diagnostican is only using that disorder as a label to harm the patient.

If that therapist truly believes what they say, I assume that they shun therapy like Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, right? Considering that therapy was designed by someone with BPD who wanted to help others with BPD, if your therapist doesn't condemn it, they're a bit of a hypocrite.

I totally get what you mean about "what does it matter, I already did it?" by the way. I look back and even though a lot of my worse actions were as a younger teen, it still makes me want to crawl out of my skin. Here's the thing, though... what does "too late" even mean?

If you can go about your life doing good, and bettering yourself not just for others, but also to show yourself that you are not just your traits, your trauma, a diagnosis—you're you. You are what you make of yourself.

Of course there will always be nature and nuture, circumstances and the like. But I think if you take steps now, it's still worth trying. You can't go back and undo what you did. Believe me, I wish I could too. But you can make more informed actions in the here and now.

Nobody is perfect. Some of us have a more "imperfect" past than others. But as a fellow narc... you aren't alone. Wherever life takes you, I hope you are able to remember to balance guilt with accountability. That's one thing I've always struggled with. But neither of us are evil.

To cheesily quote one of my favorite musical artists (who has admitted to having at least one Cluster B personality disorder and has discussed his "narcissism" in the past... can you tell I'm obsessed with his music yet):

Vice-versa, vice versus virtue
Well who I am I choose through all the things I do

Fuck the past. Let's see how far you can make it now that you're in the present.

---

If it's okay to ask: If you were at your lowest point mentally, how could a friend most effectively support you? I know a pwNPD and I worry I don't/can't do enough for them.

Another sorta long response.

Support can be complicated because narcissistic collapse is one of the worst feelings ever.

I'm both an extrovert and a narcissist, and being around other humans sort of fuels me. But I also have a brain disorder that made me into a shut-in for years straight, barely even leaving my own bed or room, let alone the house. Isolation is what fucks me up.

My entire life feels like a performance. Have you ever heard the song World's Greatest Actor? It's exactly that. But when there's no damn audience, then it's like being on a stage alone and you start to wonder if people even cared at all. I exist for the audience to cheer for. It's sometimes all I am.

When I'm isolated, I switch between feeling like I'm part of the walls and daydreaming so hard that I feel as if I'm being watched. Living life for myself is nearly impossible.

One major tip I'd give that a lot of my other narc friends relate to is:
A lot of us struggle with having any sort of drive to do anything unless there is someone "spectating" or "cheering us on." Even getting better and healing sometimes defaults to a sort of. "What's the point?" mindset.

So definitely discuss with your friends what works for them, if they're open to it. With some of my friends, them saying "I'm proud of you!" makes me preen like a damn bird. For others it makes me paranoid that I'm being pitied.

But what always helps me is to feel like I'm on a level playing field with others—like they aren't talking down to me when they encourage me, but instead walking alonside me on my journey. I can get the energy to walk if there's someone I care about to walk with. Ya feel me?

If a friend is not open about themselves and their own struggles, my brain sometimes defaults to "what do you know about the suffering I'm feeling?" Those "voices" of doubt and paranoia and grandiosity that make me feel insane are worse when I'm at my lowest.

So when your friend is suffering... be a witness. See them. However you do that is between you and your friend, but I hope this still helped.

 

[Forever Sleep]

If this is too much to ask, please ignore. I believe I grew up with a narcissist. Asides from regular bullying, they often lied about or to me. Either gas lighting- so- stuff like: 'We agreed to this- don't you remember?' Type of thing- to get their own way. Or, outright accusing me of (serious) things I hadn't done. To friends, teachers and parents.

I'm not sure you even participate in this kind of behaviour but, if you do, I suppose my question is: Do narcissists believe their own lies? But then- how? Do they just imagine stuff that hasn't happened at all? Or, do they realise it's a lie but, convince themselves the lie is reasonable?

If the lie is to manipulate, again- how conscious is it? Do they know they are trying to manipulate the person? Is the whole process conscious? They work out the most effective thing to say to get what they want? Or, is it just a desperate need for something that drives them?

Do you feel villainized often? I have to be honest and say I have such negative connotations with (suspected) narcissists. The whole reason I developed ideation to begin with was because of this one person. So, I find it hard to overcome my bias.

I try to reason that something must have happened to make them like that. That they most likely suffered/ suffer too but I struggle to feel so much sympathy if a person has caused so much damage themselves. (Not to say you have.) Do you wish people were more sympathetic towards you?

Do you think there are levels of narcissism? To some extent, perhaps we all have traits. But, do you find yourself looking at others and thinking they are more affected than you?

If you could be rid of your NPD, would you be? Or, are there elements of it that are nicer? Do you feel genuinely confident in yourself or, does it feel fake and, always under threat?

I have massive admiration for people who identify their own issues and try to work on them. Thank you for the opportunity to ask these questions. Obviously- feel free to ignore any that push too far. Also- they are based off of a person I believed was/ is a narcissist. They may not even be relevant to you.

 

[Greyhawk]

What are the most annoying common misconceptions about NPD that you stumble upon on the internet? Do you know any movies, tv shows or books that depict characters with NPD accurately?