KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,700
Now, I know that there are some countries like the Netherlands, Belgium, and a couple others who have legalised euthanasia and assisted dying for people with long-term, intractable physical or mental health conditions, but in the vast majority of the world, this is not the case.

Once you fall ill with something incurable or become permanently injured, you are expected to put up with it the rest of your life, to not complain about it, to suck it up, and move on. There is something so unjust and cruel about this supposition, because it robs you of all power and agency. Others get to make decisions about your life for you, the person who is deeply suffering doesn't get a say in the matter because if you attempt ctb and fail it's a one way ticket to the psychiatric ward.

I'm tired of having no legal authority over my own body. It makes me crestfallen and angry that I don't get a say in what happens to me, I'm expected to suffer until death comes naturally, with no say in my own mortality. While I know people and by extension, the legislators who make laws, are not deliberately being cruel, the consequences of their belief system being embedded into the fabric of society- their deep seated fear of death and fear mongering about slippery slopes- have been nothing but harmful to the chronically ill who have no hope of improvement.

I have spent years dealing with problem after problem, knowing there's no relief in sight. You would think that for a world that harps on about prolonging life at all costs, there would be a strong initiative to alleviate pain, and to develop treatments for ailments which currently have no cure.. But the reality is no one cares unless you're imminently dying. No one sees the young person with autoimmune diseases, the old man whose joints burn and ache every day, the 20 something year old who has been tied down, forced on every medication under the sun and administered ECT for incurable mental illness, the middle aged worker who gets no reprieve from chronic neuropathic pain, we are like ghosts to the public and the medical industry's field of focus. The chronically sick and ailing mythical creatures of legends, irrelevant and unimportant.

Lots of people say that the lives of the disabled would become less valuable if euthanasia were sanctioned, but I think this is an appeal to emotion and not true in the slightest. In our current world, disabled lives are inherently less valued by default, unless we are the object of someone's motivation porn. No one will admit it, but it's true, people do not care about sick and disabled people unless we have some positive hidden talent which is impressive or useful. When you can't cope with a disabling health condition, you are called weak, you are shunned, outcasted, and become a leper among your peers.

When you are desperate for relief, you'll try anything to get better, and other people will expect you to endure every useless, damaging, or traumatising thing possible if there's even a 1% chance it could improve your health. Often times, you'll already know something isn't going to work because you've tried other drugs and remedies of similar pharmacological composition, but people act like you're being unreasonable if you don't want to keep playing russian roulette with things that don't work or even make you worse.

Even if there is something which could marginally help, doctors often won't give it to you. Like pain medication. If you're a young person with chronic pain, you're given iduprofen and paracetamol, and told to suck it up, despite your stomach burning from these useless drugs which don't make a dent in the pain. But at least they kept someone away from the big bad opioids!

I don't want to be a "survivor" anymore. I don't want to keep waiting for miracles which will never happen. Once you've lived with chronic health problems for 5+ years, it takes a massive toll on your body. My mind will never be the same. It is only going to get worse with time because I have damage to my spine and multiple nerve issues already, in addition my CFS, PTSD, etc, and I have to feel the nerve burning and pinging in my spine leg and toes 24/7.

Yet I'm expected to live like this, my mind deteriorating, my body deteriorating, with no choice or say in the matter? No, I shouldn't have to. It is disgustingly cruel to take away people's autonomy when they have long-term health issues, whether that be mental or physical, that have not responsed to any treatment. It is ironic that a news rag reported that a man selling methods was "playing god", when the legal system in most countries plays god everyday by denying the suffering and ailing a right to death.

Death is a natural part of life. It is an inevitability that can only be delayed so long, and life becomes meaningful because of the experiences one can partake in and cherish before they become enfeeble, then pass away and return to the earth forever. When someone is so ill or impaired that they cannot take part in the things in this world which would bring them joy, when they have been deprived of these pleasures, it is ignorance to call this "life." That is merely waiting for death, yet most do not realize this. It is not cowardly to fear death, but it is cowardly to deny and shun other's acceptance of death, to deprive others of any choice or free will so that those who live in fear of mortality may satiate their moral panic over the shocking prospect of individuals having bodily autonomy.
 
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unnormal9

unnormal9

SOLDIER T.
Apr 12, 2023
1,139
I've been saying this for years. I have no voice.
 
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L

Leagueofgentlemen

Member
Apr 19, 2023
77
Exactly! I'm looking at 50 or more years of being unable to work or travel and be in pain and discomfort. Why should we when you wouldn't expect an animal to suffer? I've looked into dignitas and all out it's very long winded and my family would never let me. Plus I'm too weak to travel.
 
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tiny_dancer

tiny_dancer

Student
Aug 23, 2022
137
Wow, this is so well-written and I relate so much to every word you said. "When someone is so ill or impaired that they cannot take part in the things in this world which would bring them joy, when they have been deprived of these pleasures, it is ignorance to call this "life""- so, so true. And the expectation for us just to accept this by people who have absolutely no idea what it's like. Then to be judged on top of it for not wanting to "live"…it's heartbreaking.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
38,125
It truly is so inhumane to try and force people to suffer endlessly against their wishes, it's such a hellish world we exist in where existing can get much worse beyond how we can even imagine yet there is still a lack of acceptance towards the right to die. I just think that it would make existing more bearable for many people knowing that there is a guaranteed way out as I don't believe that people deserve to be punished by being trapped inside the decaying flesh prison that is the human body until they die anyway.
 
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LaVieEnRose

LaVieEnRose

Angelic
Jul 23, 2022
4,211
One would think physical issues would garner more sympathy than mental ones but unless you have a tumor or are gushing blood no ones gives a shit either (I know I'm being perhaps overly categorical but whatever).

Edit: Scratch the tumors, as you saw yourself that's not even a guarantee...
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
9,338
I don't see how reasonable people can't sympathise with this. It's utterly disgusting how people are left to suffer in our society. I just can't get my head around it.

If it's some religious qualm- if it's the whole- it's not your time to go type of thing- only God can decide that... Why doesn't it work in reverse? Why is it then ok and right to prolong life? To intervene with nature's course and keep people alive synthetically with drugs and operations? I've heard the argument- God meant for mankind to invent medical procedures to save life. Mankind ALSO dicovered Nembutal! Why is one ok and the other not? Does Nembutal come from Satan or something?

My heart hurts for you and everyone else here suffering with chronic pain. I have know family members suffer like this. It's so utterly cruel. I really don't know how you get through your days and nights. I'm so sorry.
 
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LaVieEnRose

LaVieEnRose

Angelic
Jul 23, 2022
4,211
I don't see how reasonable people can't sympathise with this. It's utterly disgusting how people are left to suffer in our society. I just can't get my head around it.

If it's some religious qualm- if it's the whole- it's not your time to go type of thing- only God can decide that... Why doesn't it work in reverse? Why is it then ok and right to prolong life? To intervene with nature's course and keep people alive synthetically with drugs and operations? I've heard the argument- God meant for mankind to invent medical procedures to save life. Mankind ALSO dicovered Nembutal! Why is one ok and the other not? Does Nembutal come from Satan or something?

My heart hurts for you and everyone else here suffering with chronic pain. I have know family members suffer like this. It's so utterly cruel. I really don't know how you get through your days and nights. I'm so sorrry.
Because we are limited to only experiencing what we ourselves experience, empathy is predicated on being able to recognize someone's experience in ourselves and vice versa. If there is no common ground between what you know and what someone else is going through, then empathy begins to break down. Hence the opposition to this site's mere existence by people like Tantacrul. But fine empathy is limited. It should be enough to just say "I'm in pain" and be believed and taken seriously and just be listened to.

Lots of people say that the lives of the disabled would become less valuable if euthanasia were sanctioned, but I think this is an appeal to emotion and not true in the slightest. In our current world, disabled lives are inherently less valued by default, unless we are the object of someone's motivation porn. No one will admit it, but it's true, people do not care about sick and disabled people unless we have some positive hidden talent which is impressive or useful. When you can't cope with a disabling health condition, you are called weak, you are shunned, outcasted, and become a leper among your peers.
People do say that assisted suicide/euthanasia cheapens human life and should be relegated only to animals. Those who say that don't realize it is actually their position that does that.
 
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CTB Dream

CTB Dream

Injury damage disabl hard talk no argu make fun et
Sep 17, 2022
2,517
Vry sry sffr no see out way this awfl ppl human species frc sffr , ye know how injury damage nobod care nobod undrstnd all awfl keep me vege no able do any, all want now peace mthod nomore take now no delay.

Mny pr lm life no slv no thing, this impsbl body brain neuru etcmny no able slv even 10y ,s this also time dtriort keep more dtriot all worse.

Tell u truth human species keep force human scfr cuz this awfl relig idea etc all no sense stonage, also keep more ppl sffr cuz thermo more ppl mean more rsrc fght 0 brain more rprdct this 0 brain ape

vry sry sffri many
 
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Kta1994

Kta1994

Experienced
Apr 25, 2019
288
Yes chronic pain is not taken seriously by drs, im gonna ctb bc of mine whats holding me back is my mom and im a little scared of sn too
 
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H

henry22

Member
Mar 31, 2023
91
Got diagnosed with a chronic illness recently. I feel you, OP.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,700
One would think physical issues would garner more sympathy than mental ones but unless you have a tumor or are gushing blood no ones gives a shit either (I know I'm being perhaps overly categorical but whatever).

Edit: Scratch the tumors, as you saw yourself that's not even a guarantee...
I wanted to reply to you yesterday, but I was just so tired. You really did hit the nail on the head with your posts in this thread. I've read your story, and it infuriates me the nonchalant, lack of understanding and care that's been thrust your way simply because you have an illness that doctors and laypeople alike can't grasp and don't know how to treat.

It's disappointing and shocking how very little we know about diseases of the human brain, in this so-called golden age of medicine. Cases like yours highlight the immense failure of the medical establishment when it comes to dealing with symptoms that aren't cut and dry case studies from a textbook. Despite all of the scientific advancement and progress, we are still wandering around in the dark when it comes to so many ailments, perpetually stuck in the stone ages. You deserve far better than the hand life has dealt you.

I think unless someone is visibly moribund, no one seems to take notice of their pain or care. Or if you do have something potentially life threatening (like my tumors that were leaking fluid into my insides) once the imminent danger is resolved, people don't seem to care about the after-effects, even if you become enfeebled as a result. I have acid reflux so bad after my surgery that I almost choke and nearly vomit no less than 5 times a day. I understand that we're expected to move on from things, but when your issues don't ever resolve, how much is a person meant to take before they finally crack?

I wish there was a compassionate, painless way out, rather than being forced to drink this awful salt and risk failing. I have been so close for days, done all the fasting, but I'm not sure why I can't pull the final trigger so to speak, when my life is already effectively over.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,813
Now, I know that there are some countries like the Netherlands, Belgium, and a couple others who have legalised euthanasia and assisted dying for people with long-term, intractable physical or mental health conditions, but in the vast majority of the world, this is not the case.

Once you fall ill with something incurable or become permanently injured, you are expected to put up with it the rest of your life, to not complain about it, to suck it up, and move on. There is something so unjust and cruel about this supposition, because it robs you of all power and agency. Others get to make decisions about your life for you, the person who is deeply suffering doesn't get a say in the matter because if you attempt ctb and fail it's a one way ticket to the psychiatric ward.

I'm tired of having no legal authority over my own body. It makes me crestfallen and angry that I don't get a say in what happens to me, I'm expected to suffer until death comes naturally, with no say in my own mortality. While I know people and by extension, the legislators who make laws, are not deliberately being cruel, the consequences of their belief system being embedded into the fabric of society- their deep seated fear of death and fear mongering about slippery slopes- have been nothing but harmful to the chronically ill who have no hope of improvement.

I have spent years dealing with problem after problem, knowing there's no relief in sight. You would think that for a world that harps on about prolonging life at all costs, there would be a strong initiative to alleviate pain, and to develop treatments for ailments which currently have no cure.. But the reality is no one cares unless you're imminently dying. No one sees the young person with autoimmune diseases, the old man whose joints burn and ache every day, the 20 something year old who has been tied down, forced on every medication under the sun and administered ECT for incurable mental illness, the middle aged worker who gets no reprieve from chronic neuropathic pain, we are like ghosts to the public and the medical industry's field of focus. The chronically sick and ailing mythical creatures of legends, irrelevant and unimportant.

Lots of people say that the lives of the disabled would become less valuable if euthanasia were sanctioned, but I think this is an appeal to emotion and not true in the slightest. In our current world, disabled lives are inherently less valued by default, unless we are the object of someone's motivation porn. No one will admit it, but it's true, people do not care about sick and disabled people unless we have some positive hidden talent which is impressive or useful. When you can't cope with a disabling health condition, you are called weak, you are shunned, outcasted, and become a leper among your peers.

When you are desperate for relief, you'll try anything to get better, and other people will expect you to endure every useless, damaging, or traumatising thing possible if there's even a 1% chance it could improve your health. Often times, you'll already know something isn't going to work because you've tried other drugs and remedies of similar pharmacological composition, but people act like you're being unreasonable if you don't want to keep playing russian roulette with things that don't work or even make you worse.

Even if there is something which could marginally help, doctors often won't give it to you. Like pain medication. If you're a young person with chronic pain, you're given iduprofen and paracetamol, and told to suck it up, despite your stomach burning from these useless drugs which don't make a dent in the pain. But at least they kept someone away from the big bad opioids!

I don't want to be a "survivor" anymore. I don't want to keep waiting for miracles which will never happen. Once you've lived with chronic health problems for 5+ years, it takes a massive toll on your body. My mind will never be the same. It is only going to get worse with time because I have damage to my spine and multiple nerve issues already, in addition my CFS, PTSD, etc, and I have to feel the nerve burning and pinging in my spine leg and toes 24/7.

Yet I'm expected to live like this, my mind deteriorating, my body deteriorating, with no choice or say in the matter? No, I shouldn't have to. It is disgustingly cruel to take away people's autonomy when they have long-term health issues, whether that be mental or physical, that have not responsed to any treatment. It is ironic that a news rag reported that a man selling methods was "playing god", when the legal system in most countries plays god everyday by denying the suffering and ailing a right to death.

Death is a natural part of life. It is an inevitability that can only be delayed so long, and life becomes meaningful because of the experiences one can partake in and cherish before they become enfeeble, then pass away and return to the earth forever. When someone is so ill or impaired that they cannot take part in the things in this world which would bring them joy, when they have been deprived of these pleasures, it is ignorance to call this "life." That is merely waiting for death, yet most do not realize this. It is not cowardly to fear death, but it is cowardly to deny and shun other's acceptance of death, to deprive others of any choice or free will so that those who live in fear of mortality may satiate their moral panic over the shocking prospect of individuals having bodily autonomy.
This. THIS! Excellent post @KuriGohan&Kamehameha ! This is something that I had in mind over the years of endless and tiring arguments I had against pro-lifers and I'm glad that you summarized it in a thread! Also, this proves ever more reason (not that there has to be any reason for one to CTB as CTB'ing should be a fundamental human right to begin with) to check out, and after learning the reality of this society, this world, and the people around me, it serves as further evidence that some of these later life outcomes are things I wish to avoid.
 
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LaVieEnRose

LaVieEnRose

Angelic
Jul 23, 2022
4,211
I wanted to reply to you yesterday, but I was just so tired. You really did hit the nail on the head with your posts in this thread. I've read your story, and it infuriates me the nonchalant, lack of understanding and care that's been thrust your way simply because you have an illness that doctors and laypeople alike can't grasp and don't know how to treat.

It's disappointing and shocking how very little we know about diseases of the human brain, in this so-called golden age of medicine. Cases like yours highlight the immense failure of the medical establishment when it comes to dealing with symptoms that aren't cut and dry case studies from a textbook. Despite all of the scientific advancement and progress, we are still wandering around in the dark when it comes to so many ailments, perpetually stuck in the stone ages. You deserve far better than the hand life has dealt you.

I think unless someone is visibly moribund, no one seems to take notice of their pain or care. Or if you do have something potentially life threatening (like my tumors that were leaking fluid into my insides) once the imminent danger is resolved, people don't seem to care about the after-effects, even if you become enfeebled as a result. I have acid reflux so bad after my surgery that I almost choke and nearly vomit no less than 5 times a day. I understand that we're expected to move on from things, but when your issues don't ever resolve, how much is a person meant to take before they finally crack?

I wish there was a compassionate, painless way out, rather than being forced to drink this awful salt and risk failing. I have been so close for days, done all the fasting, but I'm not sure why I can't pull the final trigger so to speak, when my life is already effectively over.
And I meant to respond earlier too. Thanks for what you've said; it's infinitely more than what any friend, family member, therapist, or doctor has given me. I agree with what you say wholeheartedly.

It hasn't been excruciating in many years and if everything else were okay I might just put up with it and continue to deal with it on my own (but spoiler alert, everything isn't okay lol). But having to deal with it alone is an immense psychological burden, one that is seldom appreciated. I'm glad people here have taken it seriously (even if commiseration can't change anything in practical terms) but I guess I've accepted I'll have to die without any real acknowledgment, let alone understanding. Honestly I'm surprised I haven't completely lost my sanity. It really highlights what people are capable of enduring and growing accustomed to, but still, I would have preferred this be lethal instead of endlessly chronic.

My cousin also has a terrible malady that struck him barely as a young adult as well. But it has a name (erythromelalgia) and acknowledgment from professionals and family. The problem is there is no effective remedy but it'd be so much worse psychologically if he didn't have the acknowledgement.

I think we just have a national aversion to our deaths that can't easily be overridden with reason and logic. The imperfect aspects of suicide by SN certainly don't make it any easier. I definitely don't want to fail and it is true that not trying clearly keeps me safe from the consequences of failure..
 
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Archness

Archness

Defective Personel
Jan 20, 2023
480
In our current world, disabled lives are inherently less valued by default, unless we are the object of someone's motivation porn. No one will admit it, but it's true, people do not care about sick and disabled people unless we have some positive hidden talent which is impressive or useful.

Honestly I'm sick and tired about people talking about this "talent" I'm supposed to have. It's rly a bad sign when people talk about these "talents" and "gifts" you supposedly have but, in reality, effectively don't. ppl fixate on these "smart autist" when in reality the amount of autist who are smart in any meaningful degree is a minority like /w smart ppl.

Honetly I understand why they tell me that lie, but I wory the tell themselves that too. Because it'd mean if they see it was false they'd throw me away to forget about.
 
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Judah

Judah

Enlightened
Oct 1, 2020
1,546
disabled lives are inherently less valued by default, unless we are the object of someone's motivation porn
God, since I understood this, my life changed. And it makes me cry a lot to think about it
 
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smokingfish99

smokingfish99

Member
Jul 25, 2023
41
I completely relate:( feel free to message me if you want to vent
 
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