Discussion I genuinely believe stress and depression for most people stems from the education system.

[aramir]

I'm sorry if this is a bit long , but these feelings were brewing inside me for all my life and I just wanted to let them out before I CTB.

I believe for a lot of people the title is accurate due to how I felt during every step in the education system that almost everyone goes through , and I know people feel the same way but they don't want to believe this , because our world view of merit is based primarily on the education system, and it's much easier to believe the status quo than to think about why it is wrong.

The way we "educate" is literally an artificial source of forced obligations that most people don't relate to and don't feel productive accomplishing; the reasoning justifying it is it's supposed to teach you and prepare you for the real world, but for most people after they get out there and get their real jobs, it is almost always reported that they feel that a professional's life is easier than a student's life.
Can you tell me of a job where it's acceptable to have someone forced to "understand" specific technical concepts from every single scientific field even if you're not interested and it served nothing but put you through a grinder, where is it ever acceptable in the real world to have someone spend sleepless nights memorizing descriptions of random concepts to prove that they're worth getting a decent life, but for students it's normal to not sleep , it's normal to memorize everything instead of being able to reference information when you need it, it is also normal to constantly be graded; Now everyone always says your worth isn't tied to your grades , but that is such bullshit , even if you believe that consciously , what do you think it does to your subconscious to be on constant judgement , based on things that you doubt even matter to you ( I can't believe people can't see how insane this is).
A bigger problem is students are forced (even when they choose majors in colleges) to memorize even more useless information. Let me give you a very real example that is supported by professionals in the field:
- I study computer science ; there is not a single self respecting professional that will tell you you need to memorize everything concerning programming, I'm not even speaking generally, even in very specific tasks programmers still consult their resources to make sure they're writing things properly. But guess what students are subjected to ? they are forced to memorize that information for no reason other than to be tested on whether they can regurgitate it on a test.

People always wonder why they lose motivation in college, why they can't do what they need to ensure a better life. Isn't it obvious ? it's because you know deep down that you are spending a lot of effort to complete pointless tasks, their only value comes from the fact that some random person decided that brute force education is the best way to go about treating future generations . Humans need to know that their efforts are worthwhile , our subconscious brain is lazy and wants to avoid spending energy pointlessly , We as a species are happy when we know we spent effort that was worthwhile, that we aren't rotting away being useless to ourselves and to others. In the current education system these basic needs are manipulated and quite honestly " tortured ", first of all you get frustrated by being forced to swallow new information from every side , your brain pushes back asking why , you answer by saying to get grades to prove we are worth having a decent life; the issue that arises here is that you know deep down that it's all artificial and unnecessary, and when you spend years and years and years constantly trying to chase that grade and chasing a basic need which is to prove to your society that you are worth having; Combine this with the fact that this chase is presented as a very individualistic and self-focused journey ; a journey that spans the majority of our learning years , don't people realize that this reinforces anti-social lifestyles that are constantly eroding at our social needs. for fuck's sake most people have now even detached themselves from the person they are when they go to work ; a common saying being "Personal and professional life is separate " ok sorry to break it to you but you can't trick your brain into stopping its social needs. I'm shocked at the fact no one is seeing how psychotic the way we cope with this world we created is.

Now this hell journey of chasing validation and worth during the education ends (in my opinion) with one of the following grievous scenarios:

1- you kept pushing and pushing until the stress finally broke you either while having a mental break down before a final or while feeling completely traumatized that you never want to go through the stress again; but you know it's coming again and again for many years for that cursed degree to prove that you're allowed to have a decent paying job. and you're even more frustrated by the fact that it's not like getting that job is heaven ; it's only another chapter of life that you will have to deal with while carrying your trauma from your education. maybe you feel it is hopeless and pointless and you're too tired so you decide to end your pain.

2- same as above except you'll be brainwashed by fake optimism to keep pushing somehow believing there's something better coming(spoiler: usually it's slightly better, but it sure as hell wasn't worth what you went through). congrats though if you make it here feeling like an empty zombie since that's how most people are shambling through this life.

3- you're one of the few that thrives slaving away under authority , so this actually works best for you lol .

4- you're part of the elite that isn't threatened by how they do in the education system , in fact you benefit from having a broken down populace that can't hope for a better life.

 

[brokenengine]

I don't know if this is true for other people but it certainly is for me. Although I'm mostly convinced it's my own fault for being lazy and apathetic. And I'm also a computer science student, what a coincidence! I wish there was some way to escape without being in a huge amount of debt and being a burden to my parents.

 

[2manyproblems]

I believe it is the economic system. That is a common diagnosis of the epidemic of suicide.

 

[TAW122]

I think this is a great post. Yes, as someone who earned a Bacehlor's in Computer Science (even though I could do next to fuck all in the real world since I lack the things to bridge the gap between real world and academics), and a Masters in Software Engineering, I do agree with you that the way the education system works just sucks. In my program, we learned a lot about theoretical stuff, we get tested on some inane shit (not all, but probably a good chunk of it) that isn't really used in the real world and/or are a bit outdated. I'm pretty sure that when/if I get a career in IT or comp sci, that I would not even use the majority of stuff learned in my courses, maybe some concepts and stuff, but most of it, not really.

 

[BlueWidow]

I'm sorry if this is a bit long , but these feelings were brewing inside me for all my life and I just wanted to let them out before I CTB.

I believe for a lot of people the title is accurate due to how I felt during every step in the education system that almost everyone goes through , and I know people feel the same way but they don't want to believe this , because our world view of merit is based primarily on the education system, and it's much easier to believe the status quo than to think about why it is wrong.

The way we "educate" is literally an artificial source of forced obligations that most people don't relate to and don't feel productive accomplishing; the reasoning justifying it is it's supposed to teach you and prepare you for the real world, but for most people after they get out there and get their real jobs, it is almost always reported that they feel that a professional's life is easier than a student's life.
Can you tell me of a job where it's acceptable to have someone forced to "understand" specific technical concepts from every single scientific field even if you're not interested and it served nothing but put you through a grinder, where is it ever acceptable in the real world to have someone spend sleepless nights memorizing descriptions of random concepts to prove that they're worth getting a decent life, but for students it's normal to not sleep , it's normal to memorize everything instead of being able to reference information when you need it, it is also normal to constantly be graded; Now everyone always says your worth isn't tied to your grades , but that is such bullshit , even if you believe that consciously , what do you think it does to your subconscious to be on constant judgement , based on things that you doubt even matter to you ( I can't believe people can't see how insane this is).
A bigger problem is students are forced (even when they choose majors in colleges) to memorize even more useless information. Let me give you a very real example that is supported by professionals in the field:
- I study computer science ; there is not a single self respecting professional that will tell you you need to memorize everything concerning programming, I'm not even speaking generally, even in very specific tasks programmers still consult their resources to make sure they're writing things properly. But guess what students are subjected to ? they are forced to memorize that information for no reason other than to be tested on whether they can regurgitate it on a test.

People always wonder why they lose motivation in college, why they can't do what they need to ensure a better life. Isn't it obvious ? it's because you know deep down that you are spending a lot of effort to complete pointless tasks, their only value comes from the fact that some random person decided that brute force education is the best way to go about treating future generations . Humans need to know that their efforts are worthwhile , our subconscious brain is lazy and wants to avoid spending energy pointlessly , We as a species are happy when we know we spent effort that was worthwhile, that we aren't rotting away being useless to ourselves and to others. In the current education system these basic needs are manipulated and quite honestly " tortured ", first of all you get frustrated by being forced to swallow new information from every side , your brain pushes back asking why , you answer by saying to get grades to prove we are worth having a decent life; the issue that arises here is that you know deep down that it's all artificial and unnecessary, and when you spend years and years and years constantly trying to chase that grade and chasing a basic need which is to prove to your society that you are worth having; Combine this with the fact that this chase is presented as a very individualistic and self-focused journey ; a journey that spans the majority of our learning years , don't people realize that this reinforces anti-social lifestyles that are constantly eroding at our social needs. for fuck's sake most people have now even detached themselves from the person they are when they go to work ; a common saying being "Personal and professional life is separate " ok sorry to break it to you but you can't trick your brain into stopping its social needs. I'm shocked at the fact no one is seeing how psychotic the way we cope with this world we created is.

Now this hell journey of chasing validation and worth during the education ends (in my opinion) with one of the following grievous scenarios:

1- you kept pushing and pushing until the stress finally broke you either while having a mental break down before a final or while feeling completely traumatized that you never want to go through the stress again; but you know it's coming again and again for many years for that cursed degree to prove that you're allowed to have a decent paying job. and you're even more frustrated by the fact that it's not like getting that job is heaven ; it's only another chapter of life that you will have to deal with while carrying your trauma from your education. maybe you feel it is hopeless and pointless and you're too tired so you decide to end your pain.

2- same as above except you'll be brainwashed by fake optimism to keep pushing somehow believing there's something better coming(spoiler: usually it's slightly better, but it sure as hell wasn't worth what you went through). congrats though if you make it here feeling like an empty zombie since that's how most people are shambling through this life.

3- you're one of the few that thrives slaving away under authority , so this actually works best for you lol .

4- you're part of the elite that isn't threatened by how they do in the education system , in fact you benefit from having a broken down populace that can't hope for a better life.

You have just hit the nail on the head! It's been a long time since I was in school, but I ended up quitting college because I was having a nervous break down in the early 1990s. I barely made it through high school, mostly because dealing with the atmosphere at school and the atmosphere I had at home was just too much for me. I completely get what you're saying & I've lived it as well. And I know that these days, it's even worse than it was when I was in school (Grammar school in the 1970s/Junior high and high school in the 1980s/and college in the very late 1980s and early 90s). I remember being shocked when I got into college and found out all the remedial classes you had to take before you could start taking classes that had something to do with your major. They weren't easy classes either. Some of them were classes that I struggled through and had no interest in and were not going to serve me at all once I started studying my major, so I do know what you're talking about. I don't know who decided to create the system, but it definitely needs a major overhaul.
I'm hopeful the computers (virtual classrooms) and homeschooling will help with some of that to some degree in the future. You're right though that they need a better way to teach people than just having them regurgitate facts and figures. They've done all kinds of studies that prove that students lose some amount of what they learned every summer vacation. I've read different amounts, sometimes as much as a third. So they go to school and learn all that stuff, and then during summer vacation they forget a third of it. So what was the point?
And then what's your reward for all of that? You finish your work life, and now you get to be a broken down retired person. Well, some people do have fairly good health and have enough money saved in their retirement, but I think most people don't. Most people spend the last years of their lives struggling both financially and with health issues. And that doesn't even count the fact that the people you knew and grew up around and all of your family and friends are all going to start dying around you. I'm only 50 and that's already happening to me.

 

[2manyproblems]

I think this is a great post. Yes, as someone who earned a Bacehlor's in Computer Science (even though I could do next to fuck all in the real world since I lack the things to bridge the gap between real world and academics), and a Masters in Software Engineering, I do agree with you that the way the education system works just sucks. In my program, we learned a lot about theoretical stuff, we get tested on some inane shit (not all, but probably a good chunk of it) that isn't really used in the real world and/or are a bit outdated. I'm pretty sure that when/if I get a career in IT or comp sci, that I would not even use the majority of stuff learned in my courses, maybe some concepts and stuff, but most of it, not really.

Yes. I've seen it said that people used to learn through doing not through schooling detached from real life experience on the job. I haven't really researched it but there seems to be a belief that for some reason things were better when people learned through doing.

 

[MysticPerception]

Your post just reinforced the idea that I was correct in avoiding college and deciding personally that it's not for me. My family tried very hard back when I finished high school to shove me into college to the point where I unwillingly jumped through the hoops to sign up for classes and get in only to have a panic attack before the first class and go home and outright state that I would literally rather kill myself than go back. Working is so much easier than school it's a joke. The education system in the US is honestly a scam with how it wrings you dry of your money while making you take multiple classes you don't even need to take that just waste years of your life stuffing you full of useless information you're just going to forget in the future anyway.

 

[Backwood_tilt]

lets make this an anti-capitalism thread

 

[WhyIsLife56]

You're brainwashed from the day you're born. It's not just education. The whole entire world(your parents, the media, school etc) promises you happiness, a better life and all but it all comes at a price. Your mental health. Your well-being. Existential crisis. Stress. That everything in your life doesn't last forever.

 

[MysticPerception]

You're brainwashed from the day you're born. It's not just education. The whole entire world(your parents, the media, school etc) promises you happiness, a better life and all but it all comes at a price. Your mental health. Your well-being. Existential crisis. Stress. That everything in your life doesn't last forever.

Yeah they always fail to leave out the part where you have to grind yourself into a fine dust before you're allowed to see a sliver of the so called happiness they promise will come to you naturally later in life when you're a child.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Yeah they always fail to leave out the part where you have to grind yourself into a fine dust before you're allowed to see a sliver of the so called happiness they promise will come to you naturally later in life when you're a child.

And you start questioning yourself: is all of this hard work worth it? Why am I doing it in the first place?

 

[MysticPerception]

And you start questioning yourself: is all of this hard work worth it? Why am I doing it in the first place?

Then some come to the unfortunate conclusion like me that no, it's not worth it. None of it is. None of it ever was, and ever will be. We will all die in the end, so why am I punishing myself every day for nothing?

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Then some come to the unfortunate conclusion like me that no, it's not worth it. None of it is. None of it ever was, and ever will be. We will all die in the end, so why am I punishing myself every day for nothing?

Exactly. Everything goes to dust once you die.

 

[BabyYoda]

The only class I've genuinely enjoyed last semester was my Japanese class. I almost fucked up my History grade because...maybe I had no interest in it in any way since before. The history we've learned was the one specific to my country, and for some reason I find world history more engaging. Well, that's just my personal preference.

I wouldn't want to drop out of college tho because I've met so many wonderful people there and I really have no idea where to start if I need to hone up my skills for the job I want. Most companies pay close attention to where you've studied.

Organizations > Academics.

 

[CynicalHopelessness]

Education system is bullshit. I can't even remember most of what I studied in school or uni (Math), since I don't use it either in my work (software engineer) nor in day to day life.

I even don't think it's intended to. It is meant to be a grinder, a conveyor line for producing employees. It's meant to make you complacent with giving most of your day to some authority, your actual wishes being discarded. Meanwhile, their parents can be not concerned about it while they slave away to have a roof over their heads.

I think there are basic skills that everybody needs that they get from school - reading, writing, some basic arithmetics. That's about how much is actually needed to function in society. And then there's other set of skills - building relationships, self-awareness, managing your budget, etc. that never get taught at all, but are vital to being an actual human. But since the goal isn't for you to become one, very few to none of things that don't fit into sitting in a concrete box for hours unending even come into curriculum.

And after you go through this, you get your reward - another grinder of slaving for food until you are no longer able to. Though, like every factory, some pieces produced are defective in unintended ways, just like us there.

Honestly, school has made me an antinatalist years before I learned a word "antinatalist".

Another aspect is that school makes you hate learning. Because everybody way of learning is different, and adapting to this is difficult and risks not producing results, you are subjected to the One Way of memorizing stuff, recalling stuff, then letting stuff go. I figured out too late that I could just pick up few things by doing them, and read sci-pop literature for topics that I'm curious about but don't really want to go deep into. I can solder and dis/assemble electronics with few videos - not perfectly, and I sometimes burn my fingers a bit, but some of things that I'm using are perfectly functioning few years beyond the point where they are supposed to instead of polluting the soil in the landfill. Who needs this though? We're conditioned to spend money, not spending is bad for economic growth.

Ultimately, I think the issue is systemic. It's just that school is your first taste of the grotesque society you're thrown into.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

Education system is bullshit. I can't even remember most of what I studied in school or uni (Math), since I don't use it either in my work (software engineer) nor in day to day life.

I even don't think it's intended to. It is meant to be a grinder, a conveyor line for producing employees. It's meant to make you complacent with giving most of your day to some authority, your actual wishes being discarded. Meanwhile, their parents can be not concerned about it while they slave away to have a roof over their heads.

I think there are basic skills that everybody needs that they get from school - reading, writing, some basic arithmetics. That's about how much is actually needed to function in society. And then there's other set of skills - building relationships, self-awareness, managing your budget, etc. that never get taught at all, but are vital to being an actual human. But since the goal isn't for you to become one, very few to none of things that don't fit into sitting in a concrete box for hours unending even come into curriculum.

And after you go through this, you get your reward - another grinder of slaving for food until you are no longer able to. Though, like every factory, some pieces produced are defective in unintended ways, just like us there.

Honestly, school has made me an antinatalist years before I learned a word "antinatalist".

Another aspect is that school makes you hate learning. Because everybody way of learning is different, and adapting to this is difficult and risks not producing results, you are subjected to the One Way of memorizing stuff, recalling stuff, then letting stuff go. I figured out too late that I could just pick up few things by doing them, and read sci-pop literature for topics that I'm curious about but don't really want to go deep into. I can solder and dis/assemble electronics with few videos - not perfectly, and I sometimes burn my fingers a bit, but some of things that I'm using are perfectly functioning few years beyond the point where they are supposed to instead of polluting the soil in the landfill. Who needs this though? We're conditioned to spend money, not spending is bad for economic growth.

Ultimately, I think the issue is systemic. It's just that school is your first taste of the grotesque society you're thrown into.

Welcome to antinatalism

 

[2manyproblems]

lets make this an anti-capitalism thread

The paper, published in the Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health, found that state-level increases of $1 in minimum wage corresponded with a 3.4 percent to 5.9 percent decrease in the suicide rates of people with a high school diploma or less in that age group. Emory University researchers analyzed monthly data from all 50 states and the District of Columbia between 1990 and 2015.

"Our findings are consistent with the notion that policies designed to improve the livelihoods of individuals with less education, who are more likely to work at lower wages and at higher risk for adverse mental health outcomes, can reduce the suicide risk," the researchers wrote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...e-minimum-wage-is-linked-lower-suicide-rates/

not exactly about the topic of discussion but this study came out a few days ago.

 

[TheEndof]

100% agree. As someone who recently graduated college, I regret it 1000%. I was able to make connections in my field and get valuable internships, but that's about it. Those things I could have done on my own. All it brought me was major debt, false hope, anxiety, and low self worth because I have a math disability and had to take the same math classes as everyone else for my major. It was hell.

 

[Quarky00]

I always say :
8h at school .. or work
8h at home .. or family, environment
8h at sleep .. your mind

Each can potentially break a person .

Sometimes things are close at home. Sometimes it's "the system" . Whether the daily (fake values , rough schedule , nastiness) or as a whole (hard work no prospects).

 

[Wayfaerer]

It stems from many things, especially within the United States of America. Greed and corruption that is rampant and ever-present.

 

[Epsilon0]

In my case, my problems did not stem from the pressure I felt during school, but my stress and depression where definitely intensified by those experiences.