Venting I cant bear the guilt of feeling pleasure

[NoMoreSanity]

I know most on here don't understand the ideas of antinatalism and promortalism( or philosophical pessimism ) but for the handful who do, I feel guilty for feeling pleasure or having "good" days. Ofc i don't think these things are worth being tortured, but I still feel pleasure and like doing things that give me pleasure. But since life is evil like dark over, FC, and some others who are gone ( and one guy who's name i don't know how to spell sorry...) say it is which I agree with, I feoe wrong to indulge in pleasure and find it hard to stop. I know it's pointless to alliviate suffering but I do it to myself anyway and I feel wrong for that. I feel as if I should make myself miserable in order to be truthful and good. But I can't give up the pleasure, even though I know it's evil. What do I do. I can't fukcing stand this back and forth between wanting pleasure and realizing it's worth nothing. And I'm not ready to end my life yet. I'm so unbelievably lost and it hurts. I want to die but feel as if I don't. I guess these pleasures are addictions, but I don't want to give them up because they help me stay sane until I can blow my head off( as guns are a lot easier to get than SN Nad other substances). I know most here won't understand, but for the few who do, what do you think.

 

[divinemistress36]

Why do you think idulging in pleasure is evil? Were you raised religious?

 

[NoMoreSanity]

Why do you think idulging in pleasure is evil? Were you raised religious?

No. Based off of ideas like eiflism and promortlaism. I assume you know what those are

 

[divinemistress36]

No. Based off of ideas like eiflism and promortlaism. I assume you know what those are

No sorry I only know of antinatalism

 

[Lyn]

Sorry for invading this thread as someone who doesn't align closely with antinatalism or promortalism.
Well, I mean I don't know much about what lays behind those words and I don't really like to relay on labels.
But I do believe that non-existence is a better concept/state than existence.
And your thread made me curious.

I guess I can see how, if you deeply believe life is inherently harmful or evil, even small pleasures could feel like betrayals of some sort. Probably like indulging in something you know doesn't fix the larger problem, and might even feel like you're complicit in it or feel becoming "addicted".
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But I don't think it's necessarily wrong to feel pleasure in a world that's full of suffering. Even if life is fundamentally flawed... choosing to find moments of peace or even enjoyment might not be a denial of that reality as you perceive it.
I'm trying to suppose here that it might just be a way of coping with it while you are on the way to your own goals.

All in all pleasure can be a coping mechanism. And that's pretty much human.
You're not wrong for trying to stay sane or feel okay for a moment. That doesn't invalidate your philosophical position.

The pain you're feeling seems to come more from the conflict between your ideals and your instincts. And I can imagine that's a hard place to be.

You don't sound weak or hypocritical though.
You sound like someone caught in a storm of thought and emotion, trying to find a way to be honest to yourself without breaking.
I don't think the answer is to make yourself suffer just to prove a point.
Maybe the answer is to allow yourself the contradiction.

I mean if pleasure could bring you peace at least for a while no matter how small it is on the scale of obviously violent universe, wouldn't it give some sort of freedom in knowing how meaningless it all might be and that means you don't have to justify the small joys.

And by the way I respect your honesty and sincerity.
I may not fully relate and understand, but I'm listening.

 

[NoMoreSanity]

A

Sorry for invading this thread as someone who doesn't align closely with antinatalism or promortalism.
Well, I mean I don't know much about what lays behind those words and I don't really like to relay on labels.
But I do believe that non-existence is a better concept/state than existence.
And your thread made me curious.

I guess I can see how, if you deeply believe life is inherently harmful or evil, even small pleasures could feel like betrayals of some sort. Probably like indulging in something you know doesn't fix the larger problem, and might even feel like you're complicit in it or feel becoming "addicted".
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But I don't think it's necessarily wrong to feel pleasure in a world that's full of suffering. Even if life is fundamentally flawed... choosing to find moments of peace or even enjoyment might not be a denial of that reality as you perceive it.
I'm trying to suppose here that it might just be a way of coping with it while you are on the way to your own goals.

All in all pleasure can be a coping mechanism. And that's pretty much human.
You're not wrong for trying to stay sane or feel okay for a moment. That doesn't invalidate your philosophical position.

The pain you're feeling seems to come more from the conflict between your ideals and your instincts. And I can imagine that's a hard place to be.

You don't sound weak or hypocritical though.
You sound like someone caught in a storm of thought and emotion, trying to find a way to be honest to yourself without breaking.
I don't think the answer is to make yourself suffer just to prove a point.
Maybe the answer is to allow yourself the contradiction.

I mean if pleasure could bring you peace at least for a while no matter how small it is on the scale of obviously violent universe, wouldn't it give some sort of freedom in knowing how meaningless it all might be and that means you don't have to justify the small joys.

And by the way I respect your honesty and sincerity.
I may not fully relate and understand, but I'm listening.

although I don't agree with your suggestion, I really do appreciate the kindness and open mind to my ideas. And you were correct about your second paragraph. You have the correct idea bout me on that part

 

[x22]

I'm not looking to get into a debate, but you should reexamine what morality means to you. If your core belief is that suffering should be eliminated (in this case through the elimination of life), then why would you let pleasure cause you more suffering? Your notions of benevolence are hurting you and helping no one.

 

[Lyn]

A

although I don't agree with your suggestion

That's totally fair.
So if understand correctly the main thing is that gap between what you believe intellectually and what you feel emotionally and being torn between those extremes.
Well I don't know then. I guess at this point I'd start trying to reflect on why that gap exists in the first place.
But it's just me.

 

[NoMoreSanity]

That's totally fair.
So if understand correctly the main thing is that gap between what you believe intellectually and what you feel emotionally and being torn between those extremes.
Well I don't know then. I guess at this point I'd start trying to reflect on why that gap exists in the first place.
But it's just me.

I'm just waiting until I become numb

 

[Lyn]

I'm just waiting until I become numb

Ah, I guess now I got it a little bit more.
So this numbness you are waiting is exactly what's supposed to cover the gap and eliminate that dissonance?

 

[genie]

I don't understand why you'd feel guilty. Efilism is about being opposed to life because of suffering. If you get some pleasure in life, why would that make you feel guilty? You could still be an efilist and seek pleasure. I think the main point is it's disproportionate. Life is about 80/20% suffering/pleasure.

 

[Lyn]

Sorry, my sleep pills are starting to kick in, so I've got to go. If you ever want to talk, or even if you just need someone to listen... my PM's are always open.
You've got me really interested in your perspective. But no rush, no expectations.

 

[NoMoreSanity]

But the pleasures are addictions to keep you here as a user here says. Forgot his nams

I don't understand why you'd feel guilty. Efilism is about being opposed to life because of suffering. If you get some pleasure in life, why would that make you feel guilty? You could still be an efilist and seek pleasure. I think the main point is it's disproportionate. Life is about 80/20% suffering/pleasure.

His name is pthnrdnojvsc i think

 

[mikgazer6]

I consider myself antinatalist and promortalist and relate to a lot of what you wrote. I think all life, future and current, should cease to exist as soon as possible. But unless you're trying to pursue a strict ascetic state, I don't see the reason to feel guilt towards pleasure. Pleasures are an anesthetic for existence. As long as you're still here then you might as well mindfully indulge in the pleasures that are detached from causing suffering or promoting harmful silly delusions like legacy, hope, ambition, and whatnot.

But the pleasures are addictions to keep you here as a user here says. Forgot his nams

Technically everything other than the intentional pursuit of death or denial of needs is, in some form, submission to our will to continue living. This doesn't demand guilt though, only acknowledgement. It's just something that is. Personally I've chosen to accept the fact and am able to find value and peace in the refusals of my will that I can manage.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Sorry for invading this thread as someone who doesn't align closely with antinatalism or promortalism.
Well, I mean I don't know much about what lays behind those words and I don't really like to relay on labels.
But I do believe that non-existence is a better concept/state than existence.
And your thread made me curious.

I guess I can see how, if you deeply believe life is inherently harmful or evil, even small pleasures could feel like betrayals of some sort. Probably like indulging in something you know doesn't fix the larger problem, and might even feel like you're complicit in it or feel becoming "addicted".
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But I don't think it's necessarily wrong to feel pleasure in a world that's full of suffering. Even if life is fundamentally flawed... choosing to find moments of peace or even enjoyment might not be a denial of that reality as you perceive it.
I'm trying to suppose here that it might just be a way of coping with it while you are on the way to your own goals.

All in all pleasure can be a coping mechanism. And that's pretty much human.
You're not wrong for trying to stay sane or feel okay for a moment. That doesn't invalidate your philosophical position.

The pain you're feeling seems to come more from the conflict between your ideals and your instincts. And I can imagine that's a hard place to be.

You don't sound weak or hypocritical though.
You sound like someone caught in a storm of thought and emotion, trying to find a way to be honest to yourself without breaking.
I don't think the answer is to make yourself suffer just to prove a point.
Maybe the answer is to allow yourself the contradiction.

I mean if pleasure could bring you peace at least for a while no matter how small it is on the scale of obviously violent universe, wouldn't it give some sort of freedom in knowing how meaningless it all might be and that means you don't have to justify the small joys.

And by the way I respect your honesty and sincerity.
I may not fully relate and understand, but I'm listening.

"I guess I can see how, if you deeply believe life is inherently harmful or evil, even small pleasures could feel like betrayals of some sort. Probably like indulging in something you know doesn't fix the larger problem, and might even feel like you're complicit in it or feel becoming "addicted"."

That's how i feel. and also the pleasurable addictions waste my time i could be using to get my suicide method and plan decided on and ready to go.

imo the pleasure addictions keep me here , got me here .If it weren't for the pleasure addictions i wouldn't be here but be safe in non-existence. non-existence is the only safety from suffering or pain so bad it's a trillion times worse than you can imagine.

 

[NoMoreSanity]

"I guess I can see how, if you deeply believe life is inherently harmful or evil, even small pleasures could feel like betrayals of some sort. Probably like indulging in something you know doesn't fix the larger problem, and might even feel like you're complicit in it or feel becoming "addicted"."

That's how i feel. and also the pleasurable addictions waste my time i could be using to get my suicide method and plan decided on and ready to go.

Well lucky you. I don't have a method nor the money for it. So I get to tackle this hellish feeling of wanting pleasure and coping and feeling bad about it. I know you actually have methods ready. I DONT. WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSE TO DO

I consider myself antinatalist and promortalist and relate to a lot of what you wrote. I think all life, future and current, should cease to exist as soon as possible. But unless you're trying to pursue a strict ascetic state, I don't see the reason to feel guilt towards pleasure. Pleasures are an anesthetic for existence. As long as you're still here then you might as well mindfully indulge in the pleasures that are detached from causing suffering or promoting harmful silly delusions like legacy, hope, ambition, and whatnot.


Technically everything other than the intentional pursuit of death or denial of needs is, in some form, submission to our will to continue living. This doesn't demand guilt though, only acknowledgement. It's just something that is. Personally I've chosen to accept the fact and am able to find value and peace in the refusals of my will that I can manage.

Well I'm completely convinced of ideas against this. I'm fucking sick of all these different views. I can't fucking stand it anymore. I CANT COPE. I CANT ENJOY SHIT. BUT I CANT KILL MYSELF. IM JUST AN EVIL PEICE OF SHIT I FUCKING HATE THIS SHIT. FUCK I WANT TO BLOW MY HEAD OFF RIGHT NOW

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Well lucky you. I don't have a method nor the money for it. So I get to tackle this hellish feeling of wanting pleasure and coping and feeling bad about it. I know you actually have methods ready. I DONT. WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSE TO DO

Well I'm completely convinced of ideas against this. I'm fucking sick of all these different views. I can't fucking stand it anymore. I CANT COPE. I CANT ENJOY SHIT. BUT I CANT KILL MYSELF. IM JUST AN EVIL PEICE OF SHIT I FUCKING HATE THIS SHIT. FUCK I WANT TO BLOW MY HEAD OFF RIGHT NOW

i'm not lucky at all . i have the worst life and the worst luck. i don't have my suicide method ready to go where it's reliable yet so i don't really have a suicide method yet.

i only speak for myself and my horrible situation . i don't know your situation. it's up to you if you want to indulge in pleaurable things and you don't have to do anything because i or others say it for myself.

it's up to you to decide if life is evil or good. or if you want to indulge or pleasure or not . you don't have to feel guilty or suffer for any of that . i only say it for me because of my horrible nightmare life and situation that's unimaginably horrible.

you might not be in such danger as me so there might not be a need for you to suicide i don't know. it's only you who can decide what to do with your life or to seek enjoyment or not to suicide or not . don't let anything like some philosophical ideas make you suffer or affect you .

as for me i want to kill myself . i don't want to indulge in pleasurable addictions because i need to try to get my suicide method and plan ready to go .

 

[NoMoreSanity]

i only speak for myself and my horrible situation . i don't know your situation. it's up to you if you want to indulge in pleaurable things and you don't have to do anything because i or others say it for myself.

it's up to you to decide if life is evil or good. or if you want to indulge or pleasure or not . you don't have to feel guilty or suffer for any of that . i only say it for me because of my horrible nightmare life and situation that's unimaginably horrible.

you might not be in such danger as me so there might not be a need for you to suicide i don't know. it's only you who can decide what to do with your life or to seek enjoyment or not to suicide or not . don't let anything like some philosophical ideas make you suffer or affect you .

To late. All these ideas make me suffer mentally every single day. And you don't mean this. You don't believe its up to me, id rather you be honest with me. Please don't take this as me being cruel to you. I'm having a really bad time with all this shit and I need to vent. The hell of like makes it hard to enjoy things. I feel obligated to die. And I also want to die but don't. It's hell

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

To late. All these ideas make me suffer mentally every single day. And you don't mean this. You don't believe its up to me, id rather you be honest with me. Please don't take this as me being cruel to you. I'm having a really bad time with all this shit and I need to vent. The hell of like makes it hard to enjoy things. I feel obligated to die. And I also want to die but don't. It's hell

it's up to you unless you feel you have to suicide . that's a decision only you can make . only you know your situation. i have to kill myself asap and i don't have a method that's reliable ready to go .so i'm in hell . i need to and want to kill myself.

i'm not lucky at all . i have the worst life and the worst luck. i don't have my suicide method ready to go where it's reliable yet so i don't really have a suicide method yet.

 

[NoMoreSanity]

it's up to you unless you feel you have to suicide . that's a decision only you can make . only you know your situation. i have to kill myself asap and i don't have a method that's reliable ready to go .so i'm in hell . i need to and want to kill myself.

i'm not lucky at all . i have the worst life and the worst luck. i don't have my suicide method ready to go where it's reliable yet so i don't really have a suicide method yet.

I feel like you're lying to me. I've looked at your posts and this seems to be a way to calm me......

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I feel like you're lying to me. I've looked at your posts and this seems to be a way to calm me......

. i have the worst life. you could have an average life for all i know. only you know what is your situation. it's up to you unless you feel you have to suicide . that's a decision only you can make to be or not to be.

Plus we are all going to die anyway so nothing matters except avoiding suffering

 

[NoMoreSanity]

. i have the worst life. you could have an average life for all i know. only you know what is your situation. it's up to you unless you feel you have to suicide . that's a decision only you can make to be or not to be.

Plus we are all going to die anyway so nothing matters except avoiding suffering

I hope you find peace. In death.