How to be troubled but not annoying

[Taki]

A guy I grew up with started becoming really neurotic and narcissistic in his twenties. He would get into relationships and sabotage them in spectacular ways, became a massive music snob and would never shut up, in general couldn't shut up about his opinions on anything. By his thirties all these disasters and (surprise) having few friends made him chronically depressed. Unfortunately the only way he knew how to boost his mood and ego was to pontificate and share his opinions on music. I started avoiding him (not that I was in great shape either).

Every time I ran into him, he insisted we should get together because he needed to talk about his problems. His father even approached me in a grocery store and urged me to have coffee with his son, "because he really needs a friend." I said yes to be polite but never followed through, because the son was such a bore and jackass, despite being depressed.

Since then I've met other people like this. They have problems, even serious ones, but are a complete pain to be around. They really broadcast the impression that they're solely to blame for their woes, mostly because they're so annoying.

To be fair, I've caught myself doing this sometimes: someone reaches out to me and I'm just persistently negative, and I start wanting to hang out with that person just so I can vent. I can see how tiresome they find this. I don't talk to people anymore about my issues.

I think it's good if you still want to reach out to people and talk. But if you want to use that opportunity to help yourself (and let them help you), you still need to let them in by listening and respecting their time and energy. That's part of staying connected to people and boosting your mood, and feeling less alone.

Personally I've given up. I've stopped seeing all my friends except for the most superficial reasons, I don't go out anymore, I don't do therapy and have taken myself off meds. I talk to no one. But I respect and support those of you here who still want to talk to someone and hopefully get past your distress. Don't forget to let those people in.

 

[LegaliseIt!]

Good advice for those who want to stay connected.
I was raised to socialize in a very "scripted" way, and one never spoke of one's troubles, health, etc.
I am just too exhausted to socialize now.
It's like everything is happening in a foreign language that I am just learning, and I must slowly decipher each phrase.

 

[Jean4]

A guy I grew up with started becoming really neurotic and narcissistic in his twenties. He would get into relationships and sabotage them in spectacular ways, became a massive music snob and would never shut up, in general couldn't shut up about his opinions on anything. By his thirties all these disasters and (surprise) having few friends made him chronically depressed. Unfortunately the only way he knew how to boost his mood and ego was to pontificate and share his opinions on music. I started avoiding him (not that I was in great shape either).

Every time I ran into him, he insisted we should get together because he needed to talk about his problems. His father even approached me in a grocery store and urged me to have coffee with his son, "because he really needs a friend." I said yes to be polite but never followed through, because the son was such a bore and jackass, despite being depressed.

Since then I've met other people like this. They have problems, even serious ones, but are a complete pain to be around. They really broadcast the impression that they're solely to blame for their woes, mostly because they're so annoying.

To be fair, I've caught myself doing this sometimes: someone reaches out to me and I'm just persistently negative, and I start wanting to hang out with that person just so I can vent. I can see how tiresome they find this. I don't talk to people anymore about my issues.

I think it's good if you still want to reach out to people and talk. But if you want to use that opportunity to help yourself (and let them help you), you still need to let them in by listening and respecting their time and energy. That's part of staying connected to people and boosting your mood, and feeling less alone.

Personally I've given up. I've stopped seeing all my friends except for the most superficial reasons, I don't go out anymore, I don't do therapy and have taken myself off meds. I talk to no one. But I respect and support those of you here who still want to talk to someone and hopefully get past your distress. Don't forget to let those people in.

I relate. Talk to us. We understand.

 

[waterbottleman]

I agree with you.

While I do have sympathy and compassion for anyone who has depression and has isolated people, it's also important to do some introspection as an adult and be honest with yourself if you have some responsibility in pushing people away from you and/or people not wanting to be around you.

i know for me personally I take responsibility for pushing away many friends I used to have when I was younger. Also I'm autistic which isn't my fault, but it does make sense why people may meet me and think that there is something "off" about me so to speak and I don't blame people for feeling that way even though it sucks for me.

You know honestly I could choose to get counseling to improve my social skills, plenty of people with autism choose to do that and they get positive results from it. They get better at reading people, body language, social ques, etc. I have chosen not to do that and I have no one to blame but myself for a lack of action.

ironically though my depression has made me connect with my feelings more and overall has made me a more empathetic and compassionate person and I've noticed people like me more for it now.

 

[Taki]

This is kind of what I'm pointing at. We all have our deficits and handicaps, but we can still find ways to be adults.

 

[fightingsioux]

"I think it's good if you still want to reach out to people and talk. But if you want to use that opportunity to help yourself (and let them help you), you still need to let them in by listening and respecting their time and energy. That's part of staying connected to people and boosting your mood, and feeling less alone.

Personally I've given up. I've stopped seeing all my friends except for the most superficial reasons, I don't go out anymore, I don't do therapy and have taken myself off meds. I talk to no one. But I respect and support those of you here who still want to talk to someone and hopefully get past your distress. Don't forget to let those people in."

These lines show a lot of insight, they're quite excellent. You realize that your situation may not be the best pattern for everyone to follow, which is a hard thing for many people to say. It's great that you acknowledge and appreciate the difference between online chatting and reaching out and talking to people in the real world. Yes, listening to them, responding to their concerns, not treating them as your therapist, is the key to good conversation.

As you very honestly and compassionately say, this forum and others like it serve a needed purpose, but you encourage people to keep trying to be part of the outside world and to let those people in. I strongly second that.

Nice post!

 

[MeltingHeart]

But you sound so insightful, self-aware, and kind too-why have you personally given up? when you articulate so well how best to communicate with people & forge those all important connections in real life

 

[Moonicide]

I'm sorry, love. But we are here for you when you feel the most alone.
I barely leave my house as well. Only 2-3 times a month for my appointments, so I can relate a lot... May I ask why you stopped therapy, medication, etc? Did none of it help?

 

[Taki]

But you sound so insightful, self-aware, and kind too-why have you personally given up? when you articulate so well how best to communicate with people & forge those all important connections in real life

I have no future. That's about it.

 

[crea_the_hopeless]

I have no future. That's about it.

High key relate

 

[Science Is Scary]

I too have been diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder, and I have trouble with social skills. I was fortunate in my early 20s that a caseworker recommended me an old book called How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. Finally I had a guide to the unwritten social rules of society.

I have only anecdotal evidence that the book has been helpful for me. I still use some of the tricks in that book by habit. I imagine there are better books these days.

For the curious, here's some of the advice from the book as i've interpreted it. The advice may make more sense when reading the historical stories in the book.

• Avoid the gut reaction to criticize, label, ridicule, judge or insult - it tends to end badly for everyone involved
• Make other people feel important - genuinely appreciate, praise and encourage them
• Become a cooperative ally rather than an enemy or competitor - create a win-win situation
• Become genuinely interested in other people - do thoughtful things for them based on their interests
• Force oneself to treat people with cheerfulness and a smile even in sour situations - the cheerfulness may become natural
• Use and honor people's names - they like to hear them [recording names and a few facts about people can be useful]
• Encourage other people to talk about themselves - listening intently and asking questions is flattering - let others boast about their achievements
• Little phrases can be nice
  • Sorry to trouble you
  • Would you be so kind
  • Won't you please
  • Thank you
• Demonstrate that one sincerely recognizes how other people are better than oneself - ""Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."
• Let other people save face - help them avoid embarrassment
• Arguments
  • Avoid arguments - they have losers - "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"
  • Listen before responding
  • Focus on the points on which both people agree - emphasize those points of agreement over and over
  • Say things likely to yield a "Yes" response rather than a "No" response - Socratic method
  • Admit one's errors and apologize to help the other person feel less defensive
  • Tell one's opponents one will consider their ideas and do so
  • Thank one's opponents for their interest - think of them as friends trying to help
  • Take a break for everyone to review the problem before another meeting. During the break think carefully:
    • "Could my opponents be right? Partly right? Is there truth or merit in their position or argument?"
    • "Is my reaction one that will relieve the problem, or will it just relieve any frustration? Will my reaction drive my opponents further away or draw them closer to me? Will my reaction elevate the estimation good people have of me?"
    • "Will I win or lose? What price will I have to pay if I win? If I am quiet about it, will the disagreement blow over? Is this difficult situation an opportunity for me?"
• Changing people's minds
  • Influence other people by relating things to their desires - try to see things from their point of view and interests - present advantages and disadvantages from their perspective - "Why should he or she want to do it?"
  • Avoid telling people they are wrong or stating one is going to prove something to them - they become defensive
  • Admit that one could be wrong and do it right away and with emphasis - "By fighting you never get enough, but by yielding you get more than you expected."
  • Show respect for someone's opinions - we value our opinions like we value our physical objects
  • Convince other people by demonstrating that one is their sincere friend first - "a drop of honey catches more flies than a gallon of gall" - gentleness and friendliness over fury and force
  • Wait patiently and ask questions rather than interrupting with one's own ideas
  • Ideas someone discovers for themself may be more appreciated than ideas given to them directly
  • Allow other people to feel that an idea belongs to them and take credit - let the buyer create their own ideas rather than trying to convince them to accept the seller's ideas
• Say negative things about oneself that the other person might be thinking and preparing to say - they may respond with mercy
• Give people sympathy for being victims of circumstances - ""I don't blame you one iota for feeling as you do. If I were you I would undoubtedly feel just as you do."
• Appeal to noble, ideal reasons - "Please do not publish that picture of me any more. My mother doesn't like it."
• Dramatize ideas
• Inspire a competition or challenge to be excellent
• Criticism
  • If one must criticize, praise and appreciate the good things and humble oneself before doing it
  • Change the word "but" to "and" in criticism
  • Call attention to mistakes indirectly
  • Admit one's past mistakes first
• Leadership
  • Ask questions and make suggestions rather than giving orders
  • Praise even small improvement
  • "Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to." - Act like someone already has the characteristic one wants to see improve - [Causing them to fake it until they make it?]
  • Encourage other people. Make mistakes or personal issues seem easy to fix
  • "Always make the other person happy about doing the thing you suggest."
  • Give people titles and special roles
  • Guidelines for changing others:
    • "Be sincere"
    • "Know exactly what it is you want the other person to do."
    • "Be empathetic"
    • "Consider the benefits that person will receive from doing what you suggest." "Match those benefits to the other person's wants." Present those benefits in a request.
• Romantic relationships
  • Avoid rudeness, nagging, jealousy, insulting and criticism
  • Don't interfere with what causes happiness for other people if it doesn't interfere with one's own happiness
  • Small demonstrations of attention add up
    • Honestly appreciate someone's efforts, such as
      • looking nice (like clothing)
      • cooking (such as the taste)
      • home making
    • Give gifts like flowers outside of normal occasions
    • Spending money
    • Remember important dates like birthdays and anniversaries
    • Wave goodbye
    • Give breakfast in bed
  • Choose partners carefully? For example, sexual and leisure compatibility may be important. "Read a good book on the sexual side of marriage".
  • Be courteous even after marriage - "It is an amazing but true thing that practically the only people who ever say mean, insulting, wounding things to us are those of our own households."
• "[T]he principles taught in this book will work only when they come from the heart. I am not advocating a bag of tricks. I am talking about a new way of life."

Thanks for the interesting topic, @Taki.