Discussion How people react and treat you when wanting to end your suffering vs a terminal illness

[Rubypie41]

If someone is diagnosed with a terminal illness then nobody would be mad at them. They would feel sorry for them and do all they can to ensure they are supported until the end. They would not be made to feel any guilt, shame or responsibility for what's happened to them.

If someone has a chronic illness/condition and can't tolerate it any longer, then they are frowned upon, people get angry with them and make them feel guilty, shame and responsibility for wanting to end their life to end their suffering.

Both situations are completely out of the person's control in terms of what's happened to them, but in each scenario the way others respond to that person is completely different.

Personally, I think a chronic condition that cannot be cured and caused both physically and psychological pain is somewhat even worse than a terminal diagnosis, because there is no end in sight, but yet people have less sympathy and even get angry with the person for wanting to end their suffering.

What do others think?

 

[dinosavr]

P e r i o d ! ! !
I hate it how differently they handle it. As if mental illnesses were always curable and dependent on us. No! Why don't they understand we're actually exhausted?? And that basically, there IS a difference between us and people with physical disabilities - we do want to die, they don't!! So why is anyone upset about that? It should be the other way around. After all, we'll have what we need.

 

[TAW122]

Yes, this is the problem and main contention that we pro-choicers have with most of the other people. They (the anti-choicers, pro-lifers) don't get that suffering is suffering, regardless of whether it is a terminal illness or not. Just because people who are chronically ill or have conditions that induce long term (maybe even permanent) suffering, does NOT invalidate one's suffering. In fact, I agree with you, it may be even worse suffering from chronic illnesses as they have no end in sight as the person could be suffering for years and decades on end without relief.

This is also why I'd all for expanding the death with dignity and assisted death eligibility to cover those who are non-terminal, but are suffering immensely, which goes for both physical and psychological illnesses. That would be the next logical step for death with dignity and medical assistance in death policies imo.

 

[wljourney]

I agree with the above replies completely.

Sadly the stigma around and misunderstanding of chronic physical and mental illness is real and weighs heavy on everyone living with it.

I would say living with a chronic disabling illness is made much harder by the stigma and misunderstanding of others.

I am battling not only my illness but also the misconceptions of people around me who can't understand that "a walk in the park" or "thinking positive" Will fix my problems.

They simply can't imagine the pain and suffering one endures.

And then of course there are those who believe that many illnesses are brought on by the sick person themselves.
Blaming the person on their illness.
Assuming that they are weak, don't want to get better etc.

People often can't empathize with something they have not experienced themselves.

Worse: they believe they understand because they had something similar and got over it by drinking camomile tea and doing yoga (insert whatever nonsense they suggest)

It's rough.
It's unfair.
I can't see this change anytime soon.

 

[Beyond_Repair]

I think that what it comes down to is in the first case, the person is already going to die, against their will. Everyone feels sorry for them, it's seen as tragic and noble, since the general assumption that most people live by is that everyone should want to live as long as possible, and life is great and worth living.

In the second instance, the person is making a decision to end their life, which is seen as extremely taboo because it opens up questions that most people would rather look the other way and never address (I've read a decent amount about this, most people have protective cognitive mechanisms in place that prevent them from even considering suicide as an option, let alone ever condoning or accepting it). It contradicts the assumption that life is always worth living and precious and a gift, that people have drilled into their subconscious. The anger and disdain that results is a form of control that discourages others from possibly making the same decision in the future, to avoid the same contempt of those that have already done so.

I believe that's why many family members of those who CTB will try their best to blame others, chalking it up to an accident or 'losing their mind' or even potential foul play. Because they cannot fathom the idea that the person has made the decision to take their own life. The alternative is acceptance, and most people aren't capable of this when it comes to suicide.

Stigmas exist for the sole purpose of controlling the behavior of the masses. Like the stigma against gay marriage used to exist (and still exists in some places) because it does not lead to the furthering of the human race. The stigma against women choosing to be childfree exists (and with it the stigma against abortion and getting sterilized before having children or without husband's consent) because it goes against the furthering of the human race. We have it imprinted in our DNA to continue the human race (in reality it's our only given 'purpose', biologically speaking), and things that are not conducive to that are seen as taboo by most and thus stigmatized

 

[Sheisme]

If someone is diagnosed with a terminal illness then nobody would be mad at them. They would feel sorry for them and do all they can to ensure they are supported until the end. They would not be made to feel any guilt, shame or responsibility for what's happened to them.

If someone has a chronic illness/condition and can't tolerate it any longer, then they are frowned upon, people get angry with them and make them feel guilty, shame and responsibility for wanting to end their life to end their suffering.

Both situations are completely out of the person's control in terms of what's happened to them, but in each scenario the way others respond to that person is completely different.

Personally, I think a chronic condition that cannot be cured and caused both physically and psychological pain is somewhat even worse than a terminal diagnosis, because there is no end in sight, but yet people have less sympathy and even get angry with the person for wanting to end their suffering.

What do others think?

I see your point but disagree. Terminal means incurable and it will inevitably kill you. Mental illness will not. It isnt finite. You can recover. From a terminal illness there is no hope.
As someone whos attempted and had a family member die of cancer recently, a person with mental illness when they have means to recover and may not do everything it takes to recover, is hard hitting for a terminally ill person who is out of options and doesnt have that choice. E.g coming onto a forum like this is not going to promote recovery in the best way. Its going to keep you locked in the dark because youve found people to relate too who are also in the dark.

It is two different things entirely, one is deadly, the other has the potential to be deadly. Having lived through both, before a person reaches the decision to end their life in my view, like a terminally ill person would, they have to try everything at their disposal to get well especially if the suicidal ideation comes from an emotional response or is situational. If its chronic thats a whole different ball game. Its so complex.

 

[WearyWanderer]

I 1000% agree

I am literally too deformed to live now and I still can't get even one person in my family to actually help me with Pegasos

No one believes I'm as bad as I am even though I'm bedridden and my entire fucking body is deformed I feel like the poster child for assisted euthanasia and I hate everyone for not letting me go when it's literally my right and my choice. I would NEVER do this to any of them. I would literally do whatever it took to help them get there even if this had not happened to me. Why will none of them do the same They refuse to even believe me instead.

If you're in the US and on disability can I DM you one question possibly

 

[Cress]

If someone is diagnosed with a terminal illness then nobody would be mad at them. They would feel sorry for them and do all they can to ensure they are supported until the end. They would not be made to feel any guilt, shame or responsibility for what's happened to them.

If someone has a chronic illness/condition and can't tolerate it any longer, then they are frowned upon, people get angry with them and make them feel guilty, shame and responsibility for wanting to end their life to end their suffering.

Both situations are completely out of the person's control in terms of what's happened to them, but in each scenario the way others respond to that person is completely different.

Personally, I think a chronic condition that cannot be cured and caused both physically and psychological pain is somewhat even worse than a terminal diagnosis, because there is no end in sight, but yet people have less sympathy and even get angry with the person for wanting to end their suffering.

What do others think?

Yeah to be honest even people with terminal illnesses Are not sufficiently offered with a way to CTB. It does happen from time to time and there's countries that have put legislation in place for it to some degree. A lot of the time if you're suffering from a terminal illness the best the hospital staff will offer you is you can refuse food and water and they can give you some drugs to help make you feel more comfortable with the effects of dehydration and hunger and the slow Agonizing death that goes along with it.

It's quite a bit disheartening but the truth is people have a really hard time directly assisting you with ending your life. I'm not sure if you have the impression that if you get diagnosed with the terminal illness then you're automatically approved for Doctor Sanctioned catching the bus But it's rarely in the case. Hopefully someday it'll be the gold standard that everywhere in the world you will be able to have a doctor assist you anytime you're diagnosed with something terminal.

Then after that you can work your way to other conditions like mental health. If you can't convince people at the moment to help CTB someone That's gonna pass away in 6 months it's definitely really difficult to bring someone over to allowing it for mental health issues.

I have heard of a case where a really young girl Was traumatized and she was absolutely certain she didn't want to live anymore and she refused all food and water and the hospital staff offered her stuff to help with the symptoms.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I see your point but disagree. Terminal means incurable and it will inevitably kill you. Mental illness will not. It isnt finite. You can recover. From a terminal illness there is no hope.
As someone whos attempted and had a family member die of cancer recently, a person with mental illness when they have means to recover and may not do everything it takes to recover, is hard hitting for a terminally ill person who is out of options and doesnt have that choice. E.g coming onto a forum like this is not going to promote recovery in the best way. Its going to keep you locked in the dark because youve found people to relate too who are also in the dark.

It is two different things entirely, one is deadly, the other has the potential to be deadly. Having lived through both, before a person reaches the decision to end their life in my view, like a terminally ill person would, they have to try everything at their disposal to get well especially if the suicidal ideation comes from an emotional response or is situational. If its chronic thats a whole different ball game. Its so complex.

I'd agree with you that they are seen as and I suppose fundamentally are different things. Terminal illness will kill you. Chronic illness and mental illness may not. Chronic means doctors have at least agreed the person is intensely suffering presumably. Mental illness- the jury still seems to be out on. But yes, I suppose there's this idea of recovery as a varyingly realistic prospect for some people- even if they are currently suffering.

I also understand and sympathise that a person dying and in pain who actually wants to live may well feel envious I suppose- of anyone who still has enough health to have a shot at life. My Grandma suffered terribly with her health and she would impress upon people how important it is. She was right- of course.

But still, to argue against that- why is it insisted that we must all try at life? Really- the pro-life and suicidal are totally different mindsets. To people who are suicidal, life is an absolute chore and burden a lot of the time. They may well not even have the desire to 'get better.' Regardless of their mental or physical health, they simply don't enjoy life and don't want to participate in it.

I can understand how someone physically incapable of participating in life despite wanting to feels frustrated. Thinking that those that have relatively better health are so privelaged and lucky but- why take it out on that person? They didn't choose their life. They aren't doing anything to that terminally ill person to make them sick. In fact- I reckon- if you asked most people here- they would give their lives to someone who wanted them- if they were able to be released from them and- if that were possible.

I think there's this kind of weird notion that people who aren't that unwell who want to die are selfish. But, who are they being selfish to? It's not like they're stealing health from other people! We all live independently. They just happen to have a perspective that life isn't worth it.

Also, what difference does it make to the terminally ill person if someone with either chronic illness or, no illness whatsoever decides to kill themselves? (If they aren't related to them.) Again, I feel like there's this notion that we all owe one another something. Like some unspoken pledge to try and live, no matter what. Maybe there are some grounds to that- if we have dependants and even just considering how our suicides may upset loved ones.

Were you ever given that guilt trip as a child though: 'Finish your dinner because there are children starving in Africa.' It feels like a similar phrase but, it's weird. How does it affect children in Africa whether children in wealthy countries finish their meals?!!

I guess it's a morale thing with suicide. Like- letting the side down somehow. If people who seem to have less problems in life decide to off themselves, why would someone with far greater problems keep going? It's simply down to choice though- people keep going because they want to or, feel they have to, or they feel trapped here because suicide is scary and risky. Why should they keep going though if it isn't for them anymore?

I really wish pro-lifers would just admit that they insist upon the two following ideas, which- when you really look at them- aren't very reasonable:

-You can't even consider killing yourself. No one can. (Obviously, we can and we do- it is an option and it's one some of us will take.)

If you can't stay alive for you then, you must stay alive for other people. (Is that fair to ask of someone? Especially if they don't have dependants.)

 

[Cress]

I'd agree with you that they are seen as and I suppose fundamentally are different things. Terminal illness will kill you. Chronic illness and mental illness may not. Chronic means doctors have at least agreed the person is intensely suffering presumably. Mental illness- the jury still seems to be out on. But yes, I suppose there's this idea of recovery as a varyingly realistic prospect for some people- even if they are currently suffering.

I also understand and sympathise that a person dying and in pain who actually wants to live may well feel envious I suppose- of anyone who still has enough health to have a shot at life. My Grandma suffered terribly with her health and she would impress upon people how important it is. She was right- of course.

But still, to argue against that- why is it insisted that we must all try at life? Really- the pro-life and suicidal are totally different mindsets. To people who are suicidal, life is an absolute chore and burden a lot of the time. They may well not even have the desire to 'get better.' Regardless of their mental or physical health, they simply don't enjoy life and don't want to participate in it.

I can understand how someone physically incapable of participating in life despite wanting to feels frustrated. Thinking that those that have relatively better health are so privelaged and lucky but- why take it out on that person? They didn't choose their life. They aren't doing anything to that terminally ill person to make them sick. In fact- I reckon- if you asked most people here- they would give their lives to someone who wanted them- if they were able to be released from them and- if that were possible.

I think there's this kind of weird notion that people who aren't that unwell who want to die are selfish. But, who are they being selfish to? It's not like they're stealing health from other people! We all live independently. They just happen to have a perspective that life isn't worth it.

Also, what difference does it make to the terminally ill person if someone with either chronic illness or, no illness whatsoever decides to kill themselves? (If they aren't related to them.) Again, I feel like there's this notion that we all owe one another something. Like some unspoken pledge to try and live, no matter what. Maybe there are some grounds to that- if we have dependants and even just considering how our suicides may upset loved ones.

Were you ever given that guilt trip as a child though: 'Finish your dinner because there are children starving in Africa.' It feels like a similar phrase but, it's weird. How does it affect children in Africa whether children in wealthy countries finish their meals?!!

I guess it's a morale thing with suicide. Like- letting the side down somehow. If people who seem to have less problems in life decide to off themselves, why would someone with far greater problems keep going? It's simply down to choice though- people keep going because they want to or, feel they have to, or they feel trapped here because suicide is scary and risky. Why should they keep going though if it isn't for them anymore?

I really wish pro-lifers would just admit that they insist upon the two following ideas, which- when you really look at them- aren't very reasonable:

-You can't even consider killing yourself. No one can. (Obviously, we can and we do- it is an option and it's one some of us will take.)

If you can't stay alive for you then, you must stay alive for other people. (Is that fair to ask of someone? Especially if they don't have dependants.)

That's an interesting idea that you have there with suicidal people giving their mind and body up and essentially dying giving their body over to someone who could potentially make better use of it. Someone from the third world would love to take the place of someone in the First World who's suffering from crippling depression. As theoretically If they take over your body you'll be cured of your mental condition. Probably would make a decent plot for a movie someday.