How do you get a gun if you've been 5150'd?

[slowdance]

I'm actually not sure if it's still illegal. I haven't been in the psych ward since 2019 and I live in Pennsylvania now. Either way, how do I get my hands on a gun I can CTB with?

 

[ShatteredSerenity]

You might need a lawyer for that, since in Pennsylvania it looks like you need to go in front of a judge and show you're no longer a threat.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I think you'd need to have your rights legally restored.

 

[nembutaldream]

The feds ban you for life. ctb at a range, or buy one on the black market. If you're gonna use it to ctb, it might be worth the legal risk. Or 3d print one like that Mangione guy.

I think you'd need to have your rights legally restored.

I don't think you can; I think it's a lifetime ban at the federal level once you've been involuntarily committed.

 

[ShatteredSerenity]

The feds ban you for life. ctb at a range, or buy one on the black market. If you're gonna use it to ctb, it might be worth the legal risk. Or 3d print one like that Mangione guy.

I don't think you can; I think it's a lifetime ban at the federal level once you've been involuntarily committed.

No, there's a process to restore rights at the federal level, it's called "relief from disabilities" and you do it through the ATF and the state where the involuntary commitment happened. It's definitely something you'd want a lawyer for because it's complicated and requires knowledge about both state and federal laws.

 

[nembutaldream]

No, there's a process to restore rights at the federal level, it's called "relief from disabilities" and you do it through the ATF and the state where the involuntary commitment happened. It's definitely something you'd want a lawyer for because it's complicated and requires knowledge about both state and federal laws.

I just discussed this with a lawyer and am 99% certain that I am right. What you are referring to is for *criminal convictions*:
A Certificate of Relief from Disabilities (CRD) is a document that can help people with criminal convictions apply for jobs, licenses, and other benefits. It can also help people reintegrate into society after committing a crime.

NOT involuntary mental health holds.

 

[maniac116]

Its been some years since I retired from psych nursing but 5150 doesn't necessarily mean you can't by a gun.
We didn't send a DOJ gun restriction til a person is held an additional 14 days (5250. Then the person would have a determination hearing. If the lost the hearing then we sent gun restriction to DOJ prohibiting owning a gun. But I don't know about laws now.
Its been some years since I retired from psych nursing but 5150 doesn't necessarily mean you can't by a gun. A 5150 is a health & welfare code. Its for an "evaluation" to assess whether a person is mentally I'll, danger to self or others.
We didn't send a DOJ gun restriction til a person is held an additional 14 days (5250. Then the person would have a determination hearing. If the lost the hearing then we sent gun restriction to DOJ prohibiting owning a gun. But I don't know about laws now.

 

[OnlyOutcastsMourn]

You live in America, you can get a gun if you look hard enough. Your uncle might have one under the couch cushions.

 

[ShatteredSerenity]

I just discussed this with a lawyer and am 99% certain that I am right. What you are referring to is for *criminal convictions*:
A Certificate of Relief from Disabilities (CRD) is a document that can help people with criminal convictions apply for jobs, licenses, and other benefits. It can also help people reintegrate into society after committing a crime.

NOT involuntary mental health holds.

That's a different thing with the same name.

The relief from disability I'm referring to is a federal program to restore firearms rights after mental health prohibitions. The law is absurdly complex, so this article gives an overview of the history and legal framework:

Legal Regulation of Restoration of Firearms Rights After Mental Health Prohibition

The federal government and many states have laws restricting access to firearms by those who have been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric institution or adjudicated not competent to stand trial or not guilty by reason of insanity. The federal government and many states also have statutes...

jaapl.org

Essentially what happened is that there was a time when mental holds did create a lifetime firearm ban at the federal level, but the NRA objected to that and pressured legislators to create a legal pathway to restore those rights. So they enacted the relief from disability laws, but its not as simple as that because states have their own gun laws. So they also had to push states to develop some mechanism to lift firearms restrictions, since not all states had that.

In the system that emerged, the states (and some federal agencies like the Veteran's Administration) have the final say in removing firearms restrictions, and they can do it however they want. In order to remove restrictions at the federal level you have to fill out a bunch of forms provided by the ATF. One of those forms has to be signed by a state official that certifies that you are no longer restricted from owning firearms. You then return everything to the ATF for adjudication, and typically they would approve it as long as the state approved.

In my case, I was put in a 5150 hold last year, but in my state the firearms restrictions only last for 6 months and they already expired automatically. So I don't need to do anything at state level to purchase firearms, but I need to fill out the ATF forms and jump through whatever other hoops exist to remove the federal restrictions. I just don't feel like the hassle and expense, so I'll CTB using a different method.

 

[ThatStateOfMind]

I have no clue if this is still a thing, but there was a gun show loophole ages ago. Even minors could buy guns. Basically, at a gun show, some sellers don't bother checking anything and you can just buy a gun. Without the restrictions, buying a gun would be super easy. Again though, I have no clue if it's still a thing and even if it exists in general, no clue if it will work in Pennsylvania.

Edit: Never mind, the Biden administration got that closed in April 2024. That sucks. I mean I'm typically for gun control because school shootings are too common and minors shouldn't be able to get guns so easily. However, it makes it much harder for people like people who got 5150'd to get a gun.

 

[Nervous young man]

I'm actually not sure if it's still illegal. I haven't been in the psych ward since 2019 and I live in Pennsylvania now. Either way, how do I get my hands on a gun I can CTB with?

Black powder firearms do not require a licensed seller for purchase.

Edit: Only outside of Illinois or New York.

 

[nembutaldream]

That's a different thing with the same name.

The relief from disability I'm referring to is a federal program to restore firearms rights after mental health prohibitions. The law is absurdly complex, so this article gives an overview of the history and legal framework:

Legal Regulation of Restoration of Firearms Rights After Mental Health Prohibition

The federal government and many states have laws restricting access to firearms by those who have been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric institution or adjudicated not competent to stand trial or not guilty by reason of insanity. The federal government and many states also have statutes...

jaapl.org

Essentially what happened is that there was a time when mental holds did create a lifetime firearm ban at the federal level, but the NRA objected to that and pressured legislators to create a legal pathway to restore those rights. So they enacted the relief from disability laws, but its not as simple as that because states have their own gun laws. So they also had to push states to develop some mechanism to lift firearms restrictions, since not all states had that.

In the system that emerged, the states (and some federal agencies like the Veteran's Administration) have the final say in removing firearms restrictions, and they can do it however they want. In order to remove restrictions at the federal level you have to fill out a bunch of forms provided by the ATF. One of those forms has to be signed by a state official that certifies that you are no longer restricted from owning firearms. You then return everything to the ATF for adjudication, and typically they would approve it as long as the state approved.

In my case, I was put in a 5150 hold last year, but in my state the firearms restrictions only last for 6 months and they already expired automatically. So I don't need to do anything at state level to purchase firearms, but I need to fill out the ATF forms and jump through whatever other hoops exist to remove the federal restrictions. I just don't feel like the hassle and expense, so I'll CTB using a different method.

This is extremely interesting. As the article states, this must be unknown to attorneys because I literally just discussed this problem in detail with an attorney who specializes in restoration of 2A rights and they said I have no chance. Can I PM you?

 

[slowdance]

The feds ban you for life. ctb at a range, or buy one on the black market. If you're gonna use it to ctb, it might be worth the legal risk. Or 3d print one like that Mangione guy.

I don't think you can; I think it's a lifetime ban at the federal level once you've been involuntarily committed.

It's legal to go to a gun range if you can't legally own a gun?

 

[nembutaldream]

It's legal to go to a gun range if you can't legally own a gun?

I think so? Good question though. I'm pretty sure they don't do a background check but a lot of ranges require you go with a friend if you don't own a gun.

 

[J&L383]

You live in America, you can get a gun if you look hard enough. Your uncle might have one under the couch cushions.

What about a ghost gun? (Don't know much about them but I guess there's a little bit of fabrication you just have to do)