How can one call themself Pro Choice?

[Lycan]

One of my sisters works as a nurse and had a Pro Choice sign on her Lawn. I asked her to help me end my suffering but she refused. How can you call yourself Pro choice If you don't believe one should have the choice to end their "LIFE" even If it's Hell? What bodily autonomy is there if you aren't allowed to end you life function when you want to? If you are only Pro choice when it comes to abortion then your actually almost entirely Pro Life. Why is it that after Roe V Wade Passed, Gloria Steinem and the rest of the Pro Choice movement did not start start aggressively campaigning for the right to die? Maybe some people have. But not enough.

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

I'm pro choice, and yet I wouldn't give anyone advice or assistance for them to take their own life.

I'm happy to listen and offer life advice if they want it. I will understand their decisions and their pain, and I won't try to minimise it, detract from it, or to stop them from making and carrying out a decision.

But I won't help. I'm pro choice. Not pro death. This isn't as simple as you're all in or you're against it.

 

[Lycan]

I'm pro choice, and yet I wouldn't give anyone advice or assistance for them to take their own life.

I'm happy to listen and offer life advice if they want it. I will understand their decisions and their pain, and I won't try to minimise it, detract from it, or to stop them from making and carrying out a decision.

But I won't help. I'm pro choice. Not pro death. This isn't as simple as you're all in or you're against it.

If abortion got banned Nation/Worldwide would you help a woman get one illegally? If so why not one who wants to end their suffering?

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

If abortion got banned Nation/Worldwide would you help a woman get one illegally? If so why not one who wants to end their suffering?

I can see the argument you're trying to make, but again, just because I believe that someone should have the right to something, it doesn't mean I'm going to help them do it. I have to be able to live with myself after all.

Look at it from your side of things. I'm suicidal, and I believe that I'll likely end up going through with it sooner or later. That's my choice, so tell me, are you willing to shoot me in the head? Or to strangle me?

This isn't a simple black and white issue. And it never will be.

 

[Lycan]

I can see the argument you're trying to make, but again, just because I believe that someone should have the right to something, it doesn't mean I'm going to help them do it. I have to be able to live with myself after all.

Look at it from your side of things. I'm suicidal, and I believe that I'll likely end up going through with it sooner or later. That's my choice, so tell me, are you willing to shoot me in the head? Or to strangle me?

This isn't a simple black and white issue. And it never will be.

I don't know if I'd be able to do it those ways. But if I knew enough about Meds or something I might at least urge you to think about it one more time. If you wouldn't change your mind I'd help us both.

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

I don't know if I'd be able to do it those ways. But if I knew enough about Meds or something I might at least urge you to think about it one more time. If you wouldn't change your mind I'd help us both.

And that's fair enough. Those are your boundaries, just as I have mine. Even though we both ultimately agree that a person should be allowed to end their own life.

 

[myownpetvirus]

I can see the argument you're trying to make, but again, just because I believe that someone should have the right to something, it doesn't mean I'm going to help them do it. I have to be able to live with myself after all.

Look at it from your side of things. I'm suicidal, and I believe that I'll likely end up going through with it sooner or later. That's my choice, so tell me, are you willing to shoot me in the head? Or to strangle me?

This isn't a simple black and white issue. And it never will be.

You spilled. Sometimes this forum is so hard headed. It's like don't be offended that people don't support instant death for anyone who wants it and home delivered Nembutal paid for by the government

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

You spilled. Sometimes this forum is so hard headed. It's like don't be offended that people don't support instant death for anyone who wants it and home delivered Nembutal paid for by the government

My personal belief is that a Swiss style method of euthanasia should be available to anybody over 18, regardless of reason. However this would need some safeguards such as a six month wait period, with scheduled consultations. I feel like that would give people the freedom of choice with a robust enough process to ensure that's what a person truly wants.

I love this forum. Said it many times. It's an amazing place for support and comfort and being able to speak freely. However I do think you have to be a bit careful in how much it influences you back. Just because you're here, and you feel as you do now, it doesn't mean you're stuck on one path. If you have any hope of turning things around, I think you need to be open to that too.

I know it's much easier said than done. But I worry that there may be a few people sometimes who just tunnel vision and refuse to even consider a different angle. This should always be the last resort, not the first choice.

I will point out, this is just my opinion, and I'm no more right or wrong than anyone else here. I'm also just a very depressed person making it through each day as best I can.

 

[FuneralCry]

Those who are only pro choice for abortion and not for suicide disgust me. If someone is against suicide under any circumstances, then they are certainly thinking irrationally and are likely blinded by their own privilege and delusions. It's seriously insane to want to force others to suffer, the truth is that suicide could never be wrong as after all to die would solve all of life's problems and death is what we are destined for anyway, continuing to exist could only ever be delaying the inevitable. So there is nothing that could ever justify purposely making suicide so difficult for people.

I like to think of pro life people (including those who love to gatekeep suicide), as being pro suffering. If people wish to exist then that is fine for them but they have no right to force their deluded beliefs onto others.

 

[myownpetvirus]

My personal belief is that a Swiss style method of euthanasia should be available to anybody over 18, regardless of reason. However this would need some safeguards such as a six month wait period, with scheduled consultations. I feel like that would give people the freedom of choice with a robust enough process to ensure that's what a person truly wants.

I love this forum. Said it many times. It's an amazing place for support and comfort and being able to speak freely. However I do think you have to be a bit careful in how much it influences you back. Just because you're here, and you feel as you do now, it doesn't mean you're stuck on one path. If you have any hope of turning things around, I think you need to be open to that too.

I know it's much easier said than done. But I worry that there may be a few people sometimes who just tunnel vision and refuse to even consider a different angle. This should always be the last resort, not the first choice.

I will point out, this is just my opinion, and I'm no more right or wrong than anyone else here. I'm also just a very depressed person making it through each day as best I can.

Yeah I agree with you except I think it should be for people over 25. But yeah this forum can be great but I can't help to see some folks on here that I think need to get the first k off here and go live. They seem very uncertain and actually seem to have reasonable paths forward to happiness. But this can be an echo chamber of everyone encouraging death

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

Yeah I agree with you except I think it should be for people over 25. But yeah this forum can be great but I can't help to see some folks on here that I think need to get the first k off here and go live. They seem very uncertain and actually seem to have reasonable paths forward to happiness. But this can be an echo chamber of everyone encouraging death

I think it's hard to deduce if someone has a 'reasonable' path to happiness or not. And I personally have seen very little that I would consider 'encouraging' death, and I would call it out if and when I do see it.

There are a lot of people here of varying degrees of belief if you will. Some are very, very entrenched in the suicidal mindset. FuneralCry above springs to mind as I wrote that. I disagree with that viewpoint, but that's not to say that either of us are right or wrong. We just believe different. They're as entitled to their opinion as I am and I've no wish to argue or try to convince them otherwise. Who am I to do that?

 

[myownpetvirus]

I think it's hard to deduce if someone has a 'reasonable' path to happiness or not. And I personally have seen very little that I would consider 'encouraging' death, and I would call it out if and when I do see it.

There are a lot of people here of varying degrees of belief if you will. Some are very, very entrenched in the suicidal mindset. FuneralCry above springs to mind as I wrote that. I disagree with that viewpoint, but that's not to say that either of us are right or wrong. We just believe different. They're as entitled to their opinion as I am and I've no wish to argue or try to convince them otherwise. Who am I to do that?

I think if someone is talking about Suicidality over a debt that they could payoff in a given amount of time, or if they think they might have things in life that could make them happy I think they should hold off as long as possible though they probably naturally will as SI is strong

 

[Wannagonow]

This is a site designed specically to support those who are desiring, contemplating or planning suicide. There is also a discussion page for those seeking support with recovery. We all have differing life experiences, illnesses, viewpoints, beliefs and options. We're not all going to agree. Respect of one another is a must. Again, let's remember why this page is here and who the target audience is.

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

This is a site designed specically to support those who are desiring, contemplating or planning suicide. There is also a discussion page for those seeking support with recovery. We all have differing life experiences, illnesses, viewpoints, beliefs and options. We're not all going to agree. Respect of one another is a must. Again, let's remember why this page is here and who the target audience is.

This is very simply put, and I completely agree

 

[GasMonkey]

And what type of help did you expect from her?

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I can see the argument you're trying to make, but again, just because I believe that someone should have the right to something, it doesn't mean I'm going to help them do it. I have to be able to live with myself after all.

The problem with this line of thinking is if you're pro choice, then you believe that suicide is someone's right. However if you don't think you can live with yourself, then you instinctively don't believe suicide is right. If you didn't see anything wrong with it, then there'd be no reason for you not to be able to live with yourself if you help them.

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

The problem with this line of thinking is if you're pro choice, then you believe that suicide is someone's right. However if you don't think you can live with yourself, then you instinctively don't believe suicide is right. If you didn't see anything wrong with it, then there'd be no reason for you not to be able to live with yourself if you help them.

Not quite, though I see where you're coming from. I cannot stress enough that I fully respect a persons choice and I believe, right, to take their own life. But I don't have the right to take their life. If I help them, I'm a part of it. I share the responsibility. That's where my issue is.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Not quite, though I see where you're coming from. I cannot stress enough that I fully respect a persons choice and I believe, right, to take their own life. But I don't have the right to take their life. If I help them, I'm a part of it. I share the responsibility. That's where my issue is.

That is fair. Thank you for the explanation.

(Admittedly I don't think I could assist in it either, but that's partially due to worry about legal consequences).

 

[Lycan]

And what type of help did you expect from her?

I assume this was a question for me about my sister. How about she gives me some drugs or gives me instructions on a lethal combination of common drugs in the house? She is a nurse. She would know how.

 

[GasMonkey]

How about she gives me some drugs

I don't know in your country but in my country nurses can't prescribe any drugs.

gives me instructions on a lethal combination of common drugs in the house?

There is no lethal combination of common house drugs.

She is a nurse. She would know how.

Not really, unless she has read the PPeH she won't know jackshit about effective drug combinations for a reliable, peaceful, fast and painless CTB.

 

[stermc]

One of my sisters works as a nurse and had a Pro Choice sign on her Lawn. I asked her to help me end my suffering but she refused. How can you call yourself Pro choice If you don't believe one should have the choice to end their "LIFE" even If it's Hell? What bodily autonomy is there if you aren't allowed to end you life function when you want to? If you are only Pro choice when it comes to abortion then your actually almost entirely Pro Life. Why is it that after Roe V Wade Passed, Gloria Steinem and the rest of the Pro Choice movement did not start start aggressively campaigning for the right to die? Maybe some people have. But not enough.

I agree with everything you said, but when it comes to family things tend to get a little different.

 

[western_heart]

Being pro-choice does not imply that you provide material support to those making the choice to terminate a pregnancy or their own life.

However, I will help someone with abortion if I am able. I can see how it's a bit hypocritical but there is much greater legal risk to help those already living end their life, and abortion prevents a lifetime of suffering.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Can't believe someone hasn't even mentioned the legal implications of explicitly helping someone CTB.

 

[Sovereign]

I'm fully for people having the choice to take their own life. It's your life, it's your choice. Even though I think the opportunity to try and better your life should be facilitated by either friends/familiy or the government, I think the final call should lay iwht the person who that life belongs to. However I don't agree with the fact that someone else should be held accountable for not helping you with CBT. People can have their own opinions and internal logic systems. If you disagree with a person you can try to point out what the mistake in the reasoning of the other person is and help them fix their thinking, but it's not something to be held accountable for if it's not directly hurting people.

 

[odradek]

One of my sisters works as a nurse and had a Pro Choice sign on her Lawn. I asked her to help me end my suffering but she refused. How can you call yourself Pro choice If you don't believe one should have the choice to end their "LIFE" even If it's Hell? What bodily autonomy is there if you aren't allowed to end you life function when you want to? If you are only Pro choice when it comes to abortion then your actually almost entirely Pro Life. Why is it that after Roe V Wade Passed, Gloria Steinem and the rest of the Pro Choice movement did not start start aggressively campaigning for the right to die? Maybe some people have. But not enough.

You are holding your sister to an impossible standard here imo.

Think about it like this: we all believe in free speech, people should be able to say whatever they want. What about threats of violence tho? I think everyone agrees threats of violence should be silenced. Following your reasoning here: I guess no one anywhere actually believes in free speech because we are unwilling to permit threats of violence. Is that not shortsighted?

To put it frankly, you're asking your sister to assist in your death. Think about the all the consequences for her should she choose to help you: her own emotional wellbeing, any potential legal ramifications, how this will affect her relationships with the rest of your family, just to start. I would just say that I understand the misery and desperation of being suicidal but also try to have some perspective on what you're asking here. Her being a nurse and prochoice would only be tangental to me if I were in a similar situation. There's having principals and then there's your material reality, what's actually going on around the screen we're all looking at RN, perspective is important.

I think whatever you believe, purity tests are not constructive. This being an extreme example of a purity test imo, like really extreme.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

It could be the case that she simply doesn't want to go to prison for helping you die. Even if she's pro-choice, why would she want to risk something like that? You would get to die a peaceful death, while she gets convicted of murder and sentenced to a life in prison, with no access to peaceful methods for herself afterwards.

Maybe if you think about it that way, it's easier to understand why she won't do it? If assisting with suicide was legal, then maybe things would be different, but it isn't. It would be so nice if it was legal though.