Discussion How can anyone think life is worth living?

[Candleburn]

This maybe sounds strange but I have a hard time understanding that anyone can think life is worth living. For moste people it's all struggles, work and pain until they die anyway. Whats the point? But still are all those people obsessed in saving us. I dont get it. Do u?

 

[sserafim]

Because society needs slaves and capitalism needs human capital. Therefore, they keep us alive against our will. You exist to work and to be a slave to the system.

 

[Candleburn]

Because society needs slaves and capitalism needs human capital. Therefore, they keep us alive against our will.

But why do we need a society at all? Why do anyone want to live?

 

[sserafim]

But why do we need a society at all? Why do anyone want to live?

I don't know why we need a society at all either, but I guess it's because social animals inevitably organize themselves into hierarchies. Even bees have one. Every bee plays their part in the hive, just like how everyone is a cog in the capitalist wheel. People exist to keep the machine running. @DarkRange55 @SexyIncél Any ideas why we need a society?

 

[Candleburn]

I don't know why we need a society at all either, but I guess it's because social animals inevitably organize themselves into hierarchies. Even bees have one, every bee plays their part in the hive, just like how everyone is a cog in the capitalist wheel. People exist to keep the machine running. @DarkRange55 @SexyIncél Any ideas why we need a society?

But couldent we all just die at the same time? The planet would be better without us

 

[DarkRange55]

I don't know why we need a society at all either, but I guess it's because social animals inevitably organize themselves into hierarchies. Even bees have one. Every bee plays their part in the hive, just like how everyone is a cog in the capitalist wheel. People exist to keep the machine running. @DarkRange55 @SexyIncél Any ideas why we need a society?

I was summoned to this thread so I don't have a lot of context. Whats the question?

 

[sserafim]

I was summoned to this thread so I don't have a lot of context. Whats the question?

Why do we need a society at all?

 

[DarkRange55]

Where's @Pluto?

 

[ctbcat]

it's all the hypothetical - for the saving part, anyway. people want to keep us alive for hypothetical art, hypothetical music, hypothetical cancer cures.. people want to keep us around for the illusion of potential, or worth. if we just overcome suicidality, we can do this and that and change the world... but it's all bullshit. like you pointed out, life for most is painful and mundane.

i think people hold more value in people than life itself. but you can only really 'stay' for someone for so long.

 

[untothedepths]

I know life is probably not so bad for many people, but there are major issues coming our way and have been that are making it harder for most people to just make ends meet. You also have to live above poverty level and/or have good loving family. Oh yeah, and not mental illness/disease either. Unfortunately many people are a mix of these. And those who have the most generally don't even have to care. They don't have to see it.

 

[DarkRange55]

Why do we need a society at all?

Have @SexyIncé answer that first before I do

 

[FuneralCry]

I don't understand as well, in my case I'd certainly prefer to not exist under all circumstances, I only wish for eternal nothingness, I could never see anything desirable about being burdened with something so futile and cruel as human existence.
To me it's an abomination to have the ability to exist especially as there is no limit as to how much one can suffer and I simply don't wish to suffer in any way. I see existence as so evil, I despise this hellish world that is filled with so much endless suffering and senseless cruelty, existence truly does cause nothing but harm.

 

[sserafim]

Have @SexyIncé answer that first before I do

@SexyIncél Wya?

 

[DarkRange55]

@SexyIncél Wya?

He's the man of the hour

 

[UKscotty]

I think normal people enjoy and want life.

It offers opportunity to learn, grow and develop.

Some people in hardship get on with life and make the most of it and some billionaires hang themselves. It's really a bit of a roll of the dice who gets hit with depression.

With depression life feels pointless and all you see is negative and suffering.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

They have good health, friends, romance, lots of hobbies including a job they like doing so I can see then why life would be good although I couldn´t imagine enjoying working a full work week 5 days a week for the rest of your life with waaaaay less vacation than when you were in school so other than the job part I can see why life would be good it was for me until I became an adult.

 

[sserafim]

They have good health, friends, romance, lots of hobbies including a job they like doing so I can see then why life would be good although I couldn´t imagine enjoying working a full work week 5 days a week for the rest of your life with waaaaay less vacation than when you were in school so other than the job part I can see why life would be good it was for me until I became an adult.

Adulthood isn't worth living for me. Work is literally modern day slavery.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

But why do we need a society at all? Why do anyone want to live?

There is no objective reason no purpose for life or a society. Life and everything is meaningless suffering.

Imo humans were taught life and society were good important necessary. But I don't think so at All. I only want to avoid extreme pain and extreme suffering. they say I'm not allowed even to question or give my opinion that life and society are not good and they made a guaranteed exit impossible

 

[LaVieEnRose]

If you're conventional in all the key ways, I imagine life could be pretty cool.

 

[Pluto]

 

[PetrichorBirth]

This maybe sounds strange but I have a hard time understanding that anyone can think life is worth living. For moste people it's all struggles, work and pain until they die anyway. Whats the point? But still are all those people obsessed in saving us. I dont get it. Do u?

Many people do find lots of enjoyment in relationships, sometimes even their work, and their hobbies. I guess that makes it worth it to them

 

[sserafim]

There is no objective reason no purpose for life or a society. Life and everything is meaningless suffering.

Imo humans were taught life and society were good important necessary. But I don't think so at All. I only want to avoid extreme pain and extreme suffering. they say I'm not allowed even to question or give my opinion that life and society are not good and they made a guaranteed exit impossible

I dont think that society is necessary either, but I believe that it's a result of inevitable organization and the fact that we're social animals. What do you think?

Many people do find lots of enjoyment in relationships, sometimes even their work, and their hobbies. I guess that makes it worth it to them

Guess they enjoy modern day slavery lol

 

[davidtorez]

Optimism bias and the polly Anna effect allow most people to believe their lives are better than what they are. Evolution has a thing to do with it. Maybe the depressed "negative " few have a more realistic perception of the world? I know I'd rather not exist or my second choice would be to be ignorant of how bad life is

 

[ultrasharpy123456]

No I honestly don't get it. I was told all my life, "Stop living in lala land. Life isn't make believe. You only have one chance, life isn't a videogame." Then they get mad at me for trying to kill myself for realizing that what they're saying is true.

You don't want me to believe in Santa Claus but you want me to continue suffering on this planet for God knows how long for... literally no reason? Not only that but you don't want me to kill myself especially knowing that I have no chance in life as getting a job with a degree in art is super duper hard and I know that and that's why I want to kill myself? Especially since I have literally no idea how I would be able to support myself and get an apartment for myself seeing as how hard living financially is even with a job that pays $10/hour?

You want me to continue living with my trauma no matter how hard I try making it go away?

No I do not understand why people find life worth living. This isn't me being cool. This isn't me trying to fit in with Sanctioned Suicide and say, "Life sux lololol." This isn't me insulting anyone or trying to insult someone (but I guess I already have so I apologize) for wanting to live. This is me genuinely having literally no idea why anyone would want to live on this planet.

As for the saving thing that to me only makes sense for 2 reasons:

1- Suicide is hard. If you mess up you can end up in a worse condition hence the saving. Sometimes that is not necessary (possibly SN sometimes, gun suicides, nembutal). Other times it's not.

2- Fear. Sometimes people save us out of impulse and fear. They didn't know any better. I've seen it happen, people on here regret saving some people and feel bad for doing it but they did it out of panic. It's the human instinct.

 

[divinemistress36]

I dont think that society is necessary either, but I believe that it's a result of inevitable organization and the fact that we're social animals. What do you think?

Guess they enjoy modern day slavery lol

Some people love their jobs

 

[davidtorez]

Some people love their jobs

The same way the hamster loves running around in its hamster wheel!

 

[divinemistress36]

The same way the hamster loves running around in its hamster wheel!

Haha that's a perfect analogy

 

[sserafim]

Some people love their jobs

"The best way to keep a prisoner from escaping is to make sure he never knows he's in prison."

 

[SexyIncél]

Weird! I didn't get the first notification, @sserafim @DarkRange55. Long post; feel free to skip/skim

I don't understand as well, in my case I'd certainly prefer to not exist under all circumstances, I only wish for eternal nothingness, I could never see anything desirable about being burdened with something so futile and cruel as human existence.

You mentioned: "We are always conscious, aware of everything, no escape from ourselves"

I wonder if you're like a promortalist I know. She has a brain condition where she's hyper-conscious — very little unconscious. She even consciously shapes her lips as she talks! A couple times during sports, she was horrified when her unconscious took over — like running & hitting a volleyball

(Unlike me. While I'm talking, I can be conscious of just 1 thing. My unconscious does everything else)

For her, every minute's work-work-work — an endless grind. I realized: my unconscious spares me from much suffering. Many listen to music, drive a car or take drugs — to turn off conscious mind. We've experimented with disabling it & trying to grow her unconscious

But why do we need a society at all? Why do anyone want to live?

Biologically, I think we form group minds. Not as hardcore as termites or fire ants. But with mirror neurons & whatnot, we often hypercharge our conscious minds when communicating. (Communication's how we link up)

Many die because we lack purpose within group minds. Einstein argued:

I have now reached the point where I may indicate briefly what to me constitutes the essence of the crisis of our time. It concerns the relationship of the individual to society. The individual has become more conscious than ever of his dependence upon society. But he does not experience this dependence as a positive asset, as an organic tie, as a protective force, but rather as a threat to his natural rights, or even to his economic existence. Moreover, his position in society is such that the egotistical drives of his make-up are constantly being accentuated, while his social drives, which are by nature weaker, progressively deteriorate. All human beings, whatever their position in society, are suffering from this process of deterioration. Unknowingly prisoners of their own egotism, they feel insecure, lonely, and deprived of the naive, simple, and unsophisticated enjoyment of life. Man can find meaning in life, short and perilous as it is, only through devoting himself to society.

— Einstein, "Why Socialism?"

Less dramatically, I think of it in terms of teamwork. Dysfunctional teams are somehow dumber than each of their members. And suffer from "individual vs society"

Whereas functional teams are greater than the sum of their parts. And enable people to self-actualize: discover & grow their individuality

Some enjoy playing with basic team operations: creating, destroying, merging & splitting teams

 

[theboy]

they simply find meaning in their lives through what motivates them to get up every morning or they simply accept life as it is and do not complicate it.