Help Help with Method using Nitrogen

[pramavoid]

Hey y'all.

So I'm planning to "ctb" on Thursday using the Nitrogen method. I've got all the equipment ready in order to execute, assembled everything with exception of attaching/taping the tube to the exit bag (which I'll do on the day before or on the day). I Just wanted some advice regarding the set-up. I've read a lot of the threads regarding the whole sitting up in a chair.

I'm going to do a similar method where I set up the tank behind the passenger seat of my car (which is small so no issues in terms of reaching the tank to turn the switch nor any issue reading my flowmeter to get to the 15 litres per minute) and then sitting in the driver's seat wearing a seatbelt with additional tape for reinforcement.

Is there any risks that I should be aware of doing it this way or any weaknesses in this alternative method to sitting in a chair?
Additionally would it be okay to set up the flow to 18 litres per minute as opposed to 15 litres?

Would appreciate any feedback.​

 

[Greenberg]

I think it is important to be parked at a secluded place so that you would not experience any (well-intentioned) interference. If you increase the flow rate, please make sure that you will have sufficient gas to last around 30 minutes or so. Best, G

 

[bennay]

As stated above, just be mindful of where for passing people.

was wondering of the reasoning for 18 liters instead of 15, if you wouldn't mind sharing!

 

[ContinuousJump]

Is there any risks that I should be aware of doing it this way or any weaknesses in this alternative method to sitting in a chair?

Ive read multiple instructions for this and I cannot think of any weakness in sitting in a car seat. Some instructions reports that there can be some muscles a little shaking after passing out. Position so hose can't detach of course. Probably recline the seat a little so you don't slump over? Falling down to the side will probably be the biggest risk. Maybe pillows can prevent it?

Additionally would it be okay to set up the flow to 18 litres per minute as opposed to 15 litres?

The PPH says you need a minimum of 15 minutes of flowing. How many liters is your tank? More flow can make the noise a little louder.

A little less flowing time and a little more noise are the disadvantages. A little more faster purging of co2 is the advantage although probably unnecessary.

 

[Sacred Rest]

Hey y'all.

So I'm planning to "ctb" on Thursday using the Nitrogen method. I've got all the equipment ready in order to execute, assembled everything with exception of attaching/taping the tube to the exit bag (which I'll do on the day before or on the day). I Just wanted some advice regarding the set-up. I've read a lot of the threads regarding the whole sitting up in a chair.

I'm going to do a similar method where I set up the tank behind the passenger seat of my car (which is small so no issues in terms of reaching the tank to turn the switch nor any issue reading my flowmeter to get to the 15 litres per minute) and then sitting in the driver's seat wearing a seatbelt with additional tape for reinforcement.

Is there any risks that I should be aware of doing it this way or any weaknesses in this alternative method to sitting in a chair?
Additionally would it be okay to set up the flow to 18 litres per minute as opposed to 15 litres?

Would appreciate any feedback.​

My advice would also be to make sure to crush and release all of the normal air out of the exit bag on your head before starting the flow of Inert Gas / Nitrogen as that is a crucial step before putting the exit bag on. Also, you'll likely need around 15-30 minutes of gas flow just in case. Make sure all the windows to your car are closed and you're in a secluded spot where you won't experience interruption.

 

[pramavoid]

I think it is important to be parked at a secluded place so that you would not experience any (well-intentioned) interference. If you increase the flow rate, please make sure that you will have sufficient gas to last around 30 minutes or so. Best, G

Appreciate the advice brother, thank you. Do you think there'd be any risk of me falling over and breaking open the exit bag while I'm sitting in the driver seat with my seatbelt?

As stated above, just be mindful of where for passing people.

was wondering of the reasoning for 18 liters instead of 15, if you wouldn't mind sharing!

Thanks so much.

To be honest, it's just my way of trying to neutralise any possibility of the flow rate of 15 litres per minute not being enough, so I wanted to set it at 17 or 18 litres per minute as a sort of margin of safety if that makes sense?

 

[Greenberg]

Appreciate the advice brother, thank you. Do you think there'd be any risk of me falling over and breaking open the exit bag while I'm sitting in the driver seat with my seatbelt?

It all depends on the sturdiness of the bag. Others have resorted to using a mask or hood for improved securability. Best, G

 

[weallneedtovent]

Appreciate the advice brother, thank you. Do you think there'd be any risk of me falling over and breaking open the exit bag while I'm sitting in the driver seat with my seatbelt?

Thanks so much.

To be honest, it's just my way of trying to neutralise any possibility of the flow rate of 15 litres per minute not being enough, so I wanted to set it at 17 or 18 litres per minute as a sort of margin of safety if that makes sense?

I'd be very surprised if that happened. As long as your bag is properly secured and the tube is firmly attached to the bag, you're unlikely to fail.

Just one for whoever finds you, it's advisable to put a note on the window explaining that the car may be filled with gas. Saves some poor devil getting injured too

 

[pramavoid]

Position so hose can't detach of course. Probably recline the seat a little so you don't slump over? Falling down to the side will probably be the biggest risk. Maybe pillows can prevent it?

This is exactly the risk I was thinking of (regarding falling to down to the side)! I like this idea of yours, I'll definitely test it out and simulate a "falling over" to see how it play out before I execute. Appreciate the advice, thanks man!

How many liters is your tank?

I got a 10-litre sized tank. According to the specs from the company I got it from it has 2.3 kg's of Nitrogen Gas in the cylinder so around 1.83908 cubic metres... is that not fine?

My advice would also be to make sure to crush and release all of the normal air out of the exit bag on your head before starting the flow of Inert Gas / Nitrogen as that is a crucial step before putting the exit bag on. Also, you'll likely need around 15-30 minutes of gas flow just in case. Make sure all the windows to your car are closed and you're in a secluded spot where you won't experience interruption.

Thanks a lot! I've been reading the step-by-step guide everyday day. Especially ensuring the crushing the air out of the bag (Lol, put it in uppercase and bold in the document).

Yeah, I feel you, I'm doing it around 03:00 in the morning since our lockdown curfew only ends at 04:00, so it should give me at least an hour before anyone would even be allowed outside and very low probability (hopefully) of people being awake at 04:00 (fingers crossed) to interrupt.

It all depends on the sturdiness of the bag. Others have resorted to using a mask or hood for improved securability. Best, G

I get you, my original idea was actually to use an oxygen mask but when I was doing research finding more and more articles about how the oxygen mask was not effective for some people as those small holes on the two sides of mask allowed oxygen to enter the body to neutralise the effect of the inert gas. Thanks!

I'd be very surprised if that happened. As long as your bag is properly secured and the tube is firmly attached to the bag, you're unlikely to fail.

Just one for whoever finds you, it's advisable to put a note on the window explaining that the car may be filled with gas. Saves some poor devil getting injured too

True, true. Will definitely remember to that (kind of just had everything regarding instructions for whoever finds on a USB that I'll have with me but I realise now after what you've just said that I was being dumb thinking someone would have a laptop on them to know car being filled with gas, lol brain fart moment. Thanks man - Appreciate it!

 

[pramavoid]

Anyone have ideas to calm the nerves before "ctb"?

 

[ContinuousJump]

1.83908 cubic meters =
1839.08 liters / 18 liters per minute =
102 minutes (15 of flow is the minimum, so 102 minutes is plenty).

Anyone have ideas to calm the nerves before "ctb"?

Many seem to recommend alcohol. Nobody here has really ctb'd yet though.

I think you need to find the reasons in your self.

My thinking is, we will all die, it's inescapable... Is it really so much different happening "then," versus "now?"

I'm thinking of you and wishing you all the best.

 

[pramavoid]

1.83908 cubic meters =
1839.08 liters / 18 liters per minute =
102 minutes (15 of flow is the minimum, so 102 minutes is plenty

Oh dope! Imma copy and paste this ice mathematical formula did into my instructions document. Thanks for this!

Many seem to recommend alcohol. Nobody here has really ctb'd yet though.

I think you need to find the reasons in your self.

My thinking is, we will all die, it's inescapable... Is it really so much different happening "then," versus "now?"

I'm thinking of you and wishing you all the best.

Thanks man, Appreciate the words. Hopefully all goes to plan... (fingers crossed)

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

one of the reasons why they say to sit on a chair is that if the head is laying against something, there is a high chance that you might get the bag off your head (or create an opening between the bag and the neck) while you're unconscious. So consider where you are laying your head, while you sit in the car.

 

[LADY007]

It all depends on the sturdiness of the bag. Others have resorted to using a mask or hood for improved securability. Best, G

I made mine with one bag inside the other just in case..

 

[Butterflyfree]

Ive read multiple instructions for this and I cannot think of any weakness in sitting in a car seat. Some instructions reports that there can be some muscles a little shaking after passing out. Position so hose can't detach of course. Probably recline the seat a little so you don't slump over? Falling down to the side will probably be the biggest risk. Maybe pillows can prevent it?

The PPH says you need a minimum of 15 minutes of flowing. How many liters is your tank? More flow can make the noise a little louder.

A little less flowing time and a little more noise are the disadvantages. A little more faster purging of co2 is the advantage although probably unnecessary.

Why are you not supposed to lie down on your side in your bed with your head on a pillow? Why do you have to be leaning in a reclining position?

 

[ContinuousJump]

Why are you not supposed to lie down on your side in your bed with your head on a pillow? Why do you have to be leaning in a reclining position?

According to the Peaceful Pill Handbook,

The optimum position for a hypoxic death is to be reclining comfortably in an armchair, supported by pillows if necessary. Do not lie down. Finally, ensure that the bag will not be dislodged when consciousness is lost.

And they have the not underlined. But they don't explain exactly why.

Search the megathread or ask there if it isn't already answered there.

 

[Butterflyfree]

According to the Peaceful Pill Handbook,

And they have the not underlined. But they don't explain exactly why.

Search the megathread or ask there if it isn't already answered there.

Thank you, but I haven't been able to find the reason why.

 

[Apricity]

It's to do with gas flow i think. Carbon dioxide is heavier, if you lie down it won't leave the bag like it should and could build up. Also, you could accidentally dislodge or otherwise mess up the bag moving your head around involuntarily

 

[Butterflyfree]

Thank you that makes sense.

 

[Tempest]

It's fine if the head is against the back of the chair, right?

 

[Apricity]

It's fine if the head is against the back of the chair, right?

No idea for certain. I'm assuming it's not as bad because there's not as much pressure against the bag while sitting up vs laying down

 

[hdahsa]

I guess it has to do with two things. One is to allow the CO2 to be expelled through the small space around the neck. Lying down may cause a hindrance to it. Secondly when you lose consciousness, due to involuntary movement the bag may come loose or shift somewhat causing oxygen (air) to creep inside the bag.

Sitting in a relaxed position will largely negate both these possibilities.

 

[Tempest]

Related question: how tight should the elastic around the bag be? I'm guessing about the snugness of underwear or leggings around the waist, but it can't hurt to double check. There's a small gap where the hose passes between the mouth of the bag and the neck and I don't want that to be a confounding variable

 

[hdahsa]

According to available information, the bag should be loose enough that you can put two fingers through without difficulty. The flow rate should be 15 lpm so that it can expel all the carbon dioxide coming out of breathing and also hinder any incoming air / oxygen. The gap for the tube should not matter if these two things are done right.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

I guess it has to do with two things. One is to allow the CO2 to be expelled through the small space around the neck. Lying down may cause a hindrance to it. Secondly when you lose consciousness, due to involuntary movement the bag may come loose or shift somewhat causing oxygen (air) to creep inside the bag.

Sitting in a relaxed position will largely negate both these possibilities.

I've read about the fact that CO2 is heavier than Helium; so if the opening of the bag is on the lower end, it's easier to allow for CO2 to escape the bag.
Anyway Nitrogen is not lighten than CO2 (otherwise flying balloons would be filled with the cheaper Nitrogen, instead of Helium). So I'm not sure that having the opening of the bag on the lower end has the same effect with Nitrogen as with Helium.

An advice that I have often read is to exhale deeply before pulling the bag on the head, so that the buildup of CO2 in the bag is minimized.

About the tightness of the seal: it all depends on the strength of the bag. The pressure inside the bag will increase and, soon or later, it will cause some gas to escape from the opening. If the pressure increases too much, it will cause the bag to explode. Maybe this can be tested by blowing air in the bag with a pump, placing the bag on something that has the same diameter as the neck.

The method requires a constant flow of gas from the cylinder for a certain amount of time (at least 30min?). I think that this is to prevent that oxygen enters the bag from the "leaky seal" around the neck. The constant flow of gas from the cylinder will allow the gas from the bag to flow only from the inside to the outside (if the leak from the seal is not higher than the flow of gas from the cylinder). I think that's the only reason why they advice to regulate the valve of the cylinder and the size of the cylinder so that there is gas flowing for a long enough time.
If one was surrounded with enough nitrogen in a leak-proof chamber, he would not need a constant flow or refill.

 

[Apricity]

I've read about the fact that CO2 is heavier than Helium; so if the opening of the bag is on the lower end, it's easier to allow for CO2 to escape the bag.
Anyway Nitrogen is not lighten than CO2 (otherwise flying balloons would be filled with the cheaper Nitrogen, instead of Helium).

Nitrogen gas has a molar mass of 28.0134 g/mol. Carbon dioxide has a molar mass of 44.01 g/mol. Carbon dioxide is in fact heavier than nitrogen gas.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

Nitrogen gas has a molar mass of 28.0134 g/mol. Carbon dioxide has a molar mass of 44.01 g/mol. Carbon dioxide is in fact heavier than nitrogen gas.

thanks. that's useful. True, nitrogen is a bit lighter than CO2, not as much as helium. I assume that in the air that we breathe nitrogen and CO2 are mixed and not separated, otherwise nitrogen will escape to higher heights, as it happens when helium is released in the atmosphere.

 

[Tempest]

The air we breathe is mostly nitrogen and oxygen. CO2 is gonna be heavier than air on average because it has the extra carbon molecule compared to O2. O2 and N2 are about the same mass.

Thanks to everyone who replied about the tightness of the bag. I think what I have is fine.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

The air we breathe is mostly nitrogen and oxygen. CO2 is gonna be heavier than air on average because it has the extra carbon molecule compared to O2. O2 and N2 are about the same mass.

Thanks to everyone who replied about the tightness of the bag. I think what I have is fine.

thanks! then it's clear that the most efficient way to get rid of the CO2 is with gravity :)