Hear Me Out

[TheEternalMist]

I'm new here and I'd love to hear your opinions on what I've been thinking after reading some posts. I noticed a lot of people have the desire to die but is it really the desire to die or do people just want to have something changed in their life?

I feel very sorry for any problems people are going through. Life is very tough sometimes. Would most people still want to die if they were able to instantly remove one of their problems from their life? Whether that's receiving money to fix a situation, find a romantic partner they can share things with and build a life with to have something to live for. Maybe a car, enjoyable job, a better relationship with parents, etc? If one, or all of that would be solved, would people still want to leave this place? I'd love to hear your thoughts and happy new year. X

 

[Eriktf]

Most here have mental or physical problems, sure stuff like that might do something for many of us but its not like we wanted to become ill.

 

[ecolofienjoyer]

Maybe. I think if life was good i'd be curious enough to stay for a bit longer. But also maybe not. Even if you imagine the most fullfilling life it will still amount to nothing (assuming a cosmic nihilist stance). You would still die in the end and all your memories lost. It would be to you as if you didn't exist at all. The outcomes are identical. There is also an argument that your fate is in your hands instead of chance. No car crash or such. In my mind the two are very similar

But to answer your question probably. I think if you could magic wand a person's problems, depression, and trauma away most people would stay longer.

 

[amor.dor]

Your words remind me very much of Schopenhauer's, and I agree to a certain extent.

"The suicide wills life, and is only dissatisfied with the conditions under which it has presented itself to him. He therefore by no means surrenders the will-to-live, but only life, in that he destroys the individual manifestation."
— The World as Will and Representation, Vol. 1, §69.

At first, I even believe that for some there is a desire to live, even though they want to die due to life's conditions. But I notice that the more a person reflects on life, the more they realize that life is not a gift, but a curse… So dying would merely be hastening the inevitable. Although I believe suicide is always a valid option, it is never an obligation

 

[Forever Sleep]

Fair warning- this is a pessimists view... I mostly reside in the 'suicide section'. May be best to skip if you want to avoid negativity...

I think for a lot of people, it's the very nature of life itself though. Life kind of comes with problems of varying severeness. It's hard to always dodge those problems. Some of them simply don't have an adequate cure either- just a whole series of compromises. So- should we be willing to compromise? It depends. Will the good outweigh the bad? Ultimately, we may not know till we try.

I mean in principle, it makes sense- you're unhappy with your life because of the problems in it... So- fix the problems! But- is that possible always? Bereaved? We can't bring them back to life! We simply have to live with it. (A compromise.) Ill? Is there a cure? Is there treatment, how effective is it? (A compromise.) Poor? Become rich- how? Do they have the brains and experience to net a good job? (A possibly unrealistic wish.) Lonely? Find a partner, find friends. Some people really struggle to do either despite doing all the things they're recommended. (Again, it can seem like a flimsy hope.)

A hope has to feel pretty tangible for us to really commit to giving it our all and chasing it I think. Because it's going to take a lot of effort. And it may not be smooth sailing. There may be failures and rejections along the way. Have we got the strength to cope with them?

I actually reside more in the 'suicide discussion' section of the forum. I'm a bit of a fraud being here because I don't intend to recover. But, when I do poke my nose here, it sometimes feels more depressing than the suicide forum.

I think it's because for us over there- suicide is a kind of fallback safety net. The people this side are now trying to climb back up and some will have decided they'll try not to consider suicide anymore.

I suppose I've seen that as just pure fighting the whole time with no break. Which is an exhausting prospect for someone who doesn't have huge faith in their hope or their ability/ chances of achieving their goal. It's just a big ask of some people.

Plus, people here are often suffering with depression and anhedonia. So- it's possible the 'wins' they do in fact achieve/ get- don't actually mean as much as they should. Which- all in all I think makes us question- Is this fight going to be worth the effort?

I watched a YouTube video short the other day about motivation. The guy said the difference between those who try and those who don't is that those who try focus on the end result. Those who don't focus on the gruelling work to get there. But- what if the end result just looks ok-ish? Then what? Why would you try really hard to get something you're not massively bothered about?

I think experience can be a factor there too. I worked hard and did achieve some of the things I wanted. But, I'm back to being in the same place. So- that tends to make me wonder whether it's worth trying again.

Plus- inviting hope back in. Say- we even do succeed and start to experience joy. The fall back down can feel all the worse after that and- there will be people here who are constantly on that rollercoaster.

I think some of the time, it's simply about wanting something bad in life to stop. I imagine most of the people suffering with illness are receiving treatment. Those with body dysphoria are maybe transitioning. Are those 'solutions' working for them? And, how do we get others to treat us better? If it's simply feeling alienated by the entire culture we are in- how easy is that to fix? Practicalities too.

I sometimes see people dismissing financial struggle as a good enough reason to suicide but then- can that really be fixed for that person? Are they going to give them that money?!!

I think there's this unrealistic hope that because we like to think we are a compassionate and clever species, that the world is fair. That because people shouldn't live in poverty, they shouldn't be in pain, they shouldn't experience bullying, abuse or trauma that all that stuff either doesn't happen or we have some helpline/ therapy/ meds that will fix it. Which is bizarre because we must realise that isn't true.

Yes, people want to suicide because of the problems they are experiencing but presumably, it's because they can't find an adequate solution to those problems and they may just be tired of having to keep trying.

It's a bit like saying- wouldn't you like life if it was all rainbows? But- it isn't! It's a whole bunch of weather systems- including hurricanes and tornadoes with next to nothing to stop them. And if you are getting hailed on every other day- life may well seem like not worth the umbrella.

Sorry. A bit too depressing maybe for the recovery section!

 

[Praestat_Mori]

People of any age don't become suicidal overnight. Some circumstances affect people in negative ways. I believe it takes a lot for someone to become passively suicidal at first and later actively suicidal if their situation doesn't change in a positive way.

Suicidal ideation can become chronic over time bc the thoughts about dying will be "burned" into the brain. It's very difficult to break up such loops, often impossible, especially if the circumstances that led to it haven't changed.

I would say a majority of suicidal people would prefer a solution to their problems rather than death. The earlier life circumstances change the better the chances to recover.

 

[amor.dor]

Fair warning- this is a pessimists view... I mostly reside in the 'suicide section'. May be best to skip if you want to avoid negativity...

I think for a lot of people, it's the very nature of life itself though. Life kind of comes with problems of varying severeness. It's hard to always dodge those problems. Some of them simply don't have an adequate cure either- just a whole series of compromises. So- should we be willing to compromise? It depends. Will the good outweigh the bad? Ultimately, we may not know till we try.

I mean in principle, it makes sense- you're unhappy with your life because of the problems in it... So- fix the problems! But- is that possible always? Bereaved? We can't bring them back to life! We simply have to live with it. (A compromise.) Ill? Is there a cure? Is there treatment, how effective is it? (A compromise.) Poor? Become rich- how? Do they have the brains and experience to net a good job? (A possibly unrealistic wish.) Lonely? Find a partner, find friends. Some people really struggle to do either despite doing all the things they're recommended. (Again, it can seem like a flimsy hope.)

A hope has to feel pretty tangible for us to really commit to giving it our all and chasing it I think. Because it's going to take a lot of effort. And it may not be smooth sailing. There may be failures and rejections along the way. Have we got the strength to cope with them?

I actually reside more in the 'suicide discussion' section of the forum. I'm a bit of a fraud being here because I don't intend to recover. But, when I do poke my nose here, it sometimes feels more depressing than the suicide forum.

I think it's because for us over there- suicide is a kind of fallback safety net. The people this side are now trying to climb back up and some will have decided they'll try not to consider suicide anymore.

I suppose I've seen that as just pure fighting the whole time with no break. Which is an exhausting prospect for someone who doesn't have huge faith in their hope or their ability/ chances of achieving their goal. It's just a big ask of some people.

Plus, people here are often suffering with depression and anhedonia. So- it's possible the 'wins' they do in fact achieve/ get- don't actually mean as much as they should. Which- all in all I think makes us question- Is this fight going to be worth the effort?

I watched a YouTube video short the other day about motivation. The guy said the difference between those who try and those who don't is that those who try focus on the end result. Those who don't focus on the gruelling work to get there. But- what if the end result just looks ok-ish? Then what? Why would you try really hard to get something you're not massively bothered about?

I think experience can be a factor there too. I worked hard and did achieve some of the things I wanted. But, I'm back to being in the same place. So- that tends to make me wonder whether it's worth trying again.

Plus- inviting hope back in. Say- we even do succeed and start to experience joy. The fall back down can feel all the worse after that and- there will be people here who are constantly on that rollercoaster.

I think some of the time, it's simply about wanting something bad in life to stop. I imagine most of the people suffering with illness are receiving treatment. Those with body dysphoria are maybe transitioning. Are those 'solutions' working for them? And, how do we get others to treat us better? If it's simply feeling alienated by the entire culture we are in- how easy is that to fix? Practicalities too.

I sometimes see people dismissing financial struggle as a good enough reason to suicide but then- can that really be fixed for that person? Are they going to give them that money?!!

I think there's this unrealistic hope that because we like to think we are a compassionate and clever species, that the world is fair. That because people shouldn't live in poverty, they shouldn't be in pain, they shouldn't experience bullying, abuse or trauma that all that stuff either doesn't happen or we have some helpline/ therapy/ meds that will fix it. Which is bizarre because we must realise that isn't true.

Yes, people want to suicide because of the problems they are experiencing but presumably, it's because they can't find an adequate solution to those problems and they may just be tired of having to keep trying.

It's a bit like saying- wouldn't you like life if it was all rainbows? But- it isn't! It's a whole bunch of weather systems- including hurricanes and tornadoes with next to nothing to stop them. And if you are getting hailed on every other day- life may well seem like not worth the umbrella.

Sorry. A bit too depressing maybe for the recovery section!

Sometimes I think life is just a game that we take too seriously. Once we get something we want, we immediately start chasing something else — it's an asymptotic race: you have the illusion of moving forward, but in the grand scheme you hardly get anywhere. Every good game gives you goals to keep you from getting bored, there's always something new. Life is the same. I admit I read some author — can't remember the name — who said: "Some suffering is preferable to absolute boredom." Our brains evolved to constantly seek nutrients, energy, and, for us humans, also to seek meaning.

I think the best posture I've found so far is to treat life like any other game — never taking it too seriously, never getting too attached to it. Actually, I'm reminded of the Hindu concept of lila: it's as if God or the cosmos were playing with itself. But the rule is clear: life sells illusions, but pain is the most real thing and our anchor while we're alive.