Has anyone here done ECT or TMS?

[Rustysoupcan]

I'm thinking of doing ECT or TMS because nothing else is working. Just wondering what your experiences are because I'm kinda scared about it.

 

[Meretlein]

I would try tms first since many anecdotal reports on ECT mention long lasting memory loss, despite denial from the medical profession. There is also some empirical evidence for this.

The long-term impact of treatment with electroconvulsive therapy on discrete memory systems in patients with bipolar disorder

Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) has been controversially associated with long-lasting memory problems. Verbal learning and memory deficits are commonly reported in studies of people with bipolar disorder (BD). Whether memory deficits can be exacerbated ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I am not trying to say you should never do ECT, I just believe in informed choice.

 

[neitherherenorthere]

Meretlein's comment is what I've read and heard anecdotally from the few people I know who've done ECT as well. TMS is not as effective as the clinics like to tell you (or at least, their definition of effectiveness is not what you'd assume it to be), so don't expect any miracles, but it's worth a shot. There are many people who it's helped at least somewhat, and compared to ECT long-term side effects seem to be quite rare. If you do choose ECT, try unilateral rather than bilateral, as the latter is known to cause more memory issues. Not that I'm a medical professional or anything. This is all just stuff I've gleaned over the years. If you have a psychiatrist you should definitely talk to them about it. Generally though I think TMS may be a better choice to go with before opting for ECT.

 

[noaccount]

I had TMS done on me as a paid "control subject" - it seems much lower risk at least.

 

[DeathWish89]

The psychiatrist I see actually does the ECT so he could be considered an expert. When he met with me in the psych ward a few weeks ago I had pretty much made up my mind about going through with ECT but he (and I thought this was interesting considering HE'S THE ONE WHO DOES ECT ON HIS PATIENTS) actually dissuaded me from doing it because in his experience, 1 out of 3 people have long lasting cognitive deficits, like they have issues with learning new things. He thought that if it happened it to me, it would cause me more distress in the long run, considering I'd like to go to medical school (if I ever get healthy enough, things aren't looking good.) He instead recommended intranasal ketamine because there really are no downsides to doing it.
He also does TMS and said that there is like a 50% success rate with that method.

 

[elfgyoza]

If you pick between the two then definitely TMS over ECT. I haven't had either but I saw first hand what ECT did to someone on my psych ward. She was like a zombie, every Friday you knew she'd been for ECT because she slept all day, forgot everyone's names, kept asking where she was. One week she slept through till Sunday and didn't have any idea what day it was. Even the nurses refused to take her one time, they knew how horrible it was

 

[CharlieBrown]

I did ECT. I concur with much of what has been posted in this thread (try TMS first; if you do ECT make sure to begin with unilateral). I don't know how badly you are suffering. I suppose that if ECT has been used for so long, that it must help some, so I would never want to talk someone out of trying something that can potentially save his / her life even though it didn't help me.

 

[Trisolaris]

I tried ECT. Didn't help me but it's worth a shot. It's safer than any medication.

 

[noname223]

I considered to try ECT. In Germany they barely use this method. I knew one severly ill person who has gotten it. He said it helped. But i am not an expert. I've read other stuff than in this thread but it is superficial knowledge.

 

[RedHarlequin]

I tried ECT. I had some memory problems during the treatment and a couple of months after it, but they are now gone. It didn't help me, but it is effective in around 70% of patients who have tried medication without success. I am also glad I did it so I don't have to wonder if I have missed a recovery option.
I haven't tried TMS, the doctor basically said if ECT didn't work TMS won't. It sounds like bs but oh well.

 

[Thiopentone31]

I tried tms for OCD (14 sessions) without results

 

[Thiopentone31]

No side effect at all anyway

 

[NeuroDamaged3]

Major side effects for me. It was like someone removed a little bit of my brain. All my issues worsened permanently while all it did was made me a 'happy zombie' of sorts, small increase in happiness that was very brief.

I would recommend alot of other solutions for ECT. I did ECT as a method to CTB since I was afraid it'd make me a drooling mess and although it didn't go that far, it definitely wrecked me.

 

[MutatedFlower]

I've done ECT and it does cause damage to short-term memory, which is one of the most important things for cognition. It does help a little. I no longer think about my life, but considering that whats makes humans human, being able to think. I don't recommend it, especially if you have any type of self-awareness. You'll still have that after the treatment.

 

[LittleJem]

I paid for TMS, it's not cheap - 7K in UK pounds. I was so ill and suicidal I decided it was worth trying, as their website hyped it up and their intake person hyped it up.

The company I used, Smart TMS, keeps no data on their patients post-TMS (i.e. even for patients for whom it works, what is the relapse rate, how long till relapse?). On their website they site 70% efficacy for TRD, BUT they only quote one or two research papers and do not state how long the treatment lasts for....You can have maintenance treatments, but there isn't research or data as to how much maintenance is required.

Even ECT when it works only works for maybe 6 months or a bit longer, nothing cures it long term. I didn't know any of this before I signed up and spent the money.

So out of 30 days of TMS (30 treatments anyway, I had two on the same day sometimes), I had 8 days of relief total. I remember the day it worked for me, about 10 days into treatment, before and after the TMS I was like a different person. before it, depressed, could barely speak, suicidal. After it, conversational and much happier. For those 4 days when I felt better, I wanted to marry the TMS machine. Seriously.

Then I had PMT and my mood crashed back to suicidal again. This was halfway through the sessions. I didn't know whether to pay for the next batch (where SmartTMS hike up the price). I took the next 15 and had a few days of relief. Nothing lasting.

Nevertheless, it was kind of worth it for me as the days of feeling better gave me the strength to fight bullying in my workplace and also gave me some hope that my brain could function differently. I was still horribly ill and suicidal with depression...UNTIL:

I feel better now thanks to microdosing Ketamine. 30mg every other day. That is my top tip. Snort it for better bioavailability. After 20 years of waking up wanting to die, I don't wake up now with suicidal thoughts. I do also use other stuff around it. Shrooms are now more helpful for me, LSD is still helpful for me (I count myself lucky that these substances are helpful for me). Weed is good for my agitation. Modafinil is instant mood uplift. I cycle all of them.

If you haven't tried Ketamine, I would recommend Ketamine first. The protocol of 30mg every other day is a good one, I found it on Reddit (finally) after much research. If you do it legally it is muchos expensive, so black market is much cheaper. The b**stards have made a nasal spray for treatment-resistant depression that costs £10,000 so the NHS have decided not to offer it. But on the street, it is £30 a gram. It is one of the most essential medications in the world, it is a battlefield anaesthetic and they even use it on babies. So all the lies they tell about 'party-drug' Ketamine is also a cover-up for not sharing this common and essential medicine with those whose lives it can save. It is saving my life at the moment.

 

[MiseryWithoutCompany]

I had ECT done a few years ago. I can't recall how many sessions but I think it was 3 years ago anyway. I'm still scatterbrained and my ability to solve puzzles, count above 12, or spell has tanked significantly. Please be careful if you choose this route.

 

[kappa]

I paid for TMS, it's not cheap - 7K in UK pounds. I was so ill and suicidal I decided it was worth trying, as their website hyped it up and their intake person hyped it up.

The company I used, Smart TMS, keeps no data on their patients post-TMS (i.e. even for patients for whom it works, what is the relapse rate, how long till relapse?). On their website they site 70% efficacy for TRD, BUT they only quote one or two research papers and do not state how long the treatment lasts for....You can have maintenance treatments, but there isn't research or data as to how much maintenance is required.

Even ECT when it works only works for maybe 6 months or a bit longer, nothing cures it long term. I didn't know any of this before I signed up and spent the money.

So out of 30 days of TMS (30 treatments anyway, I had two on the same day sometimes), I had 8 days of relief total. I remember the day it worked for me, about 10 days into treatment, before and after the TMS I was like a different person. before it, depressed, could barely speak, suicidal. After it, conversational and much happier. For those 4 days when I felt better, I wanted to marry the TMS machine. Seriously.

Then I had PMT and my mood crashed back to suicidal again. This was halfway through the sessions. I didn't know whether to pay for the next batch (where SmartTMS hike up the price). I took the next 15 and had a few days of relief. Nothing lasting.

Nevertheless, it was kind of worth it for me as the days of feeling better gave me the strength to fight bullying in my workplace and also gave me some hope that my brain could function differently. I was still horribly ill and suicidal with depression...UNTIL:

I feel better now thanks to microdosing Ketamine. 30mg every other day. That is my top tip. Snort it for better bioavailability. After 20 years of waking up wanting to die, I don't wake up now with suicidal thoughts. I do also use other stuff around it. Shrooms are now more helpful for me, LSD is still helpful for me (I count myself lucky that these substances are helpful for me). Weed is good for my agitation. Modafinil is instant mood uplift. I cycle all of them.

If you haven't tried Ketamine, I would recommend Ketamine first. The protocol of 30mg every other day is a good one, I found it on Reddit (finally) after much research. If you do it legally it is muchos expensive, so black market is much cheaper. The b**stards have made a nasal spray for treatment-resistant depression that costs £10,000 so the NHS have decided not to offer it. But on the street, it is £30 a gram. It is one of the most essential medications in the world, it is a battlefield anaesthetic and they even use it on babies. So all the lies they tell about 'party-drug' Ketamine is also a cover-up for not sharing this common and essential medicine with those whose lives it can save. It is saving my life at the moment.

This is really helpful. My therapist recommend trying TMS since medications do not work for me.

The treatments would be 5 days a week, at least 36 sessions. I don't understand how people can work a job and get this treatment at the same time.

Kinda though it was my last option. But hearing it doesn't last is helpful.

Mushrooms are decriminalized where I am at, loosely thinking of trying to grow some for microdosing.

I looked into TMS it kind of freaks me out tbh.

 

[LittleJem]

This is really helpful. My therapist recommend trying TMS since medications do not work for me.

The treatments would be 5 days a week, at least 36 sessions. I don't understand how people can work a job and get this treatment at the same time.

Kinda though it was my last option. But hearing it doesn't last is helpful.

Mushrooms are decriminalized where I am at, loosely thinking of trying to grow some for microdosing.

I looked into TMS it kind of freaks me out tbh.

 

[dandan]

ECT about 10 years ago? 11? that shit erases your mind so I felt good for a few weeks or perhaps couple of months, but damm... few sessions, can't remember, should I go ask my mom? naah
Testosterone Replacement Terapy, plus Dianabol did( and does) the trick with medical checkups every month or two

 

[Lawliet]

I did TMS, it didn't help me at all. But it has helped a lot of people. It's not scary at all, it feels like a tapping on your head. They can up or down the intensity. You get your head measured, they make a cap you put on and you sit still in a reclining chair for a certain amount of time, usually not above one hour. It's noisy but they give you earplugs.

Stay the fuck away from ECT.

 

[gianni rage]

I'm thinking of doing ECT or TMS because nothing else is working. Just wondering what your experiences are because I'm kinda scared about it.

I have completed 15 outpatient sessions since September at Mount Sinai hospital in NYC (my home)...Unfortunately, the mood stabilizer I was on (Lamictal) is a powerful anti-seizure drug, so even though I reduced my dose, the benefits of the first eight or nine treatments were much less than they could have been. My seizures clocked in at 4 to 8 seconds. To truly see results, one usually needs to have seizures that are at least 15 seconds, preferably 25+.

After titrating off of the Lamictal, I resumed treatment and for the past month have gone twice a week. My seizures immediately lengthened, and the response was much more tangible. This was important because I had really become demoralized: These treatments are not easy, can somtimes take a great deal out of a patient, so if the effects are paltry, it just feels like a tremendous waste of time and energy....And when one is in the grips of the level of distress deemed necessary for ECT to be considered, there is already a tremendous sense of futility, so it is important that some therapeutic value is apparent.
It is bad enough to be diagnosed with treatment-resistant depression disorder. ECT is regarded as the last resort, and to think this is even a bust can be devastating.

At the moment I am experiencing a definite upswing, but I must qualify that the improvements have been subtle. For some, it is like night and day, and even though the benefits of ECT are known to be temporary, many patients still feel almost transformed for a time, and the power of positive response cannot be understated. I am hoping that I will see more of a marked improvement over the next six weeks or so, after weekly treatments I will be going to biweekly, and then once a month, for a total of six months.

I have had little to no negative side effects, on the contrary, my memory is sharper than it has ever been, perhaps too sharp, for it is the long-term memory that has grown so stronger, and there is much in my past that I would like to forget, lol.
My short-term memory has been unaffected, and it is the short-term most patients usually have to worry about. But of all of the people I have known who have had this treatment, {about a half-dozen}, the interference in ability to recall has not been incredibly distressing and generally involves events that occur at the time of sessions.

I have several specific reasons for pursuing this avenue of therapy, beyond just incapacitating depression...One of the big factors in the intensity and stubbornness of my disorder has been a long-term dependency on very high-dose ADHD medicine...I have been on either Adderall or Dexedrine continuously for nearly ten years, and for almost two of those years my consumption became abusive. I have been on a clinical, closely monitored, therapeutic dose for years now, but it is still a very high dose. I believe this has all caused impairments to my dopaminergic brain function, and my doctors feel this suspicion could be valid, as the science is there. They are not certain how ECT works exactly, but they do know it has some impact on neuron plasticity in the cerebral cortex and hippocampus. The theory is that this is a type of "reboot" for the brain, with newer, "cleaner" connections being created as well as neurogenesis (actual creation of new cells)...
If this is so, it would follow that a reduction and downward titration off the medication might be much easier (it has been observed in other patients)
When one has the level of depression I suffer from, getting off amphetamine-type drugs, even gradually, can be incredibly uncomfortable and extremely disruptive and stressful. My hope is that the ECT will provide a certain pre-emptive "scaffolding", supporting my efforts to withdraw from the meds successfully and with minimized misery...I am currently working on a. schedule for micro-dosing titration off the drug with my shrink, which we will hopefully implement over the next two months....

If you are considering ECT, and qualify for it, you will encounter an incredible amount of negative feedback when discussing this in many open forums...Most will come from individuals who never even had the therapy, and their opinions will be based largely on anecdote and hearsay. There is a rabid anti-psych lobby out there, and extreme therapies like ECT (and to a lesser extent, TMS) are favorite targets.
ECT WAS a widely abused procedure for much of its history and is not without risks. But the therapy has been incredibly refined over the past several decades, and clinicians are much more judicious and knowledgeable about its application, indeed, the qualifications are now very strict and there is almost a level of over-caution about considering it (malpractice insurance is EXTREMELY expensive, and it is in their interest as well for doctors to be conservative.)

At this point, the greatest downside (IMO) is that it IS a time-and-energy consuming commitment, and if it is NOT effective---and not everyone sees benefits---it can be very, very discouraging.....This is not to say that there haven't been occasional cases
where experiences have been quite negative, but they actually are quite rare, and complications I have heard about usually have to do with things other than ECT, or are extremely misleading (Example: It is quite possible to make a "connection" between ECT and "increased risk" of suicide...Could it be that,since patients must be desperately depressed before ECT is even considered, they already belong to a population with significantly high suicide rates to BEGIN with? But such logic is enthusiastically overlooked by those who traffic in distortions and misinformation)
Try to ignore the dire warnings of the hysterical 'crusaders' and 'militants'. Ask them to provide sound, objective data and inquire about their qualifications to speak with authority about this, or any other, treatment. You will usually find they have neither.
Seek out more objective sources and do your own research, and do not hesitate to ask as many questions as you need of any medical personnel involved in your decision.

Good luck with whatever course you choose. I hope my words have been helpful. Feel free to ask me any questions you may have.

 

[vapauttaa]

I've had somewhere around 20 ECT treatments, spread out over a year or so. My memory is not as it was, or rather, the memories are there but it's like they're in a deep sleep/deep freeze and unfortunately, sometimes I'm reminded of a particular horror and then many more memories come flooding back.

I had completely "forgotten" my brothers wedding, or thought so anyway, esp how my father raged at me and told me I looked like shit. That memory was wiped, hadn't thought of it. My brother brought it up recently and I was like fuck, that's right…ugh.

I've also had quite a few head injuries in my life, which I'm sure is excellent for ECT recovery. Wayne's World NOT.

Best part of ECT, that sweet anesthesia.

 

[gianni rage]

I've had somewhere around 20 ECT treatments, spread out over a year or so. My memory is not as it was, or rather, the memories are there but it's like they're in a deep sleep/deep freeze and unfortunately, sometimes I'm reminded of a particular horror and then many more memories come flooding back.

I had completely "forgotten" my brothers wedding, or thought so anyway, esp how my father raged at me and told me I looked like shit. That memory was wiped, hadn't thought of it. My brother brought it up recently and I was like fuck, that's right…ugh.

I've also had quite a few head injuries in my life, which I'm sure is excellent for ECT recovery. Wayne's World NOT.

Best part of ECT, that sweet anesthesia.

oh ho ho yessss----that knock-out. interestingly, they have been doing studies in Britain combinng ECT with ketamine---administering the ketamine with anesthesia

 

[neitherherenorthere]

At the moment I am experiencing a definite upswing, but I must qualify that the improvements have been subtle. For some, it is like night and day, and even though the benefits of ECT are known to be temporary, many patients still feel almost transformed for a time, and the power of positive response cannot be understated. I am hoping that I will see more of a marked improvement over the next six weeks or so, after weekly treatments I will be going to biweekly, and then once a month, for a total of six months.

I have had little to no negative side effects, on the contrary, my memory is sharper than it has ever been, perhaps too sharp, for it is the long-term memory that has grown so stronger, and there is much in my past that I would like to forget, lol.
My short-term memory has been unaffected, and it is the short-term most patients usually have to worry about. But of all of the people I have known who have had this treatment, {about a half-dozen}, the interference in ability to recall has not been incredibly distressing and generally involves events that occur at the time of sessions.

This is very interesting, thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[Looooser]

I'm thinking of doing ECT or TMS because nothing else is working. Just wondering what your experiences are because I'm kinda scared about it.

There's nothing in the body that reacts to magnets or a magnetic field so I think it's just a pseudoscience. ECT makes more sense to me in the idea that it will work rather that TMS. I have heard mixed reviews on ECT.... More good that bad. But I've never talked to someone that's had TMS. A counselor did just tell me about a less extreme ECT kind of treatment. It sounded like it was just less of a jolt than normal. I'm still researching

 

[wait.what]

I've asked for ECT many times but I've always been turned down. The main reason I've been given is that ECT works best on depression that comes on suddenly and is very severe, like so bad it causes psychosis or catatonia. I've been depressed for decades, and while I feel like absolute hell, I've never lost contact with reality. There were also concerns about putting me under general anesthesia, given my sleep apnea.

I did 6 weeks of M-F TMS sessions during the fall of last year. By themselves they did nothing obvious, but when I added IV ketamine therapy it helped a lot. More than IV ketamine alone, and a lot more than other drugs.

 

[neitherherenorthere]

There's nothing in the body that reacts to magnets or a magnetic field so I think it's just a pseudoscience. ECT makes more sense to me in the idea that it will work rather that TMS. I have heard mixed reviews on ECT.... More good that bad. But I've never talked to someone that's had TMS. A counselor did just tell me about a less extreme ECT kind of treatment. It sounded like it was just less of a jolt than normal. I'm still researching

The less extreme ECT your counselor told you about is probably TMS. It's not just sticking magnets near your head (which would absolutely be pseudoscience), it's using an electromagnetic coil to generate a strong enough electrical current that it causes the neurons in that part of your brain to fire. ECT is similar, except that the electrical current they use is powerful enough to cause a seizure, which is why they put you under anesthesia and give you muscle relaxants for the procedure. (If I'm mis-describing anything here please correct me.)

I've asked for ECT many times but I've always been turned down. The main reason I've been given is that ECT works best on depression that comes on suddenly and is very severe, like so bad it causes psychosis or catatonia. I've been depressed for decades, and while I feel like absolute hell, I've never lost contact with reality. There were also concerns about putting me under general anesthesia, given my sleep apnea.

Part of it might be that the benefits of ECT don't actually last that long, based on what I've read, which could be a reason why they'd prefer to use it in acute, severe cases like that. I don't know why they wouldn't let you at least try a course of treatment once to see if it helps, though. That's interesting about sleep apnea being an anesthesia concern, I hadn't considered that. You'd think they could just hook you up to a CPAP while you're under, though...

 

[Kristicide]

I had TMS. I wanted to try something other than meditation especially since most antidepressants cause weight gain. I'm athletic, short/petite, and extra weight is really noticeable when you're short. I did the treatment for about 8 weeks (once a day for about 20-30min / 5 days a week). The bulk of the treatment was targeted for my depression. And there was a shorter section at the end which had a different impulse pattern that targeted my anxiety. I didn't find it painful - more like an annoyance. Picture someone mildly pinching your skin over and over in one spot. I was nervous at first because I suffer from chronic migraine (I'm currently taking a medication that has been a lifesaver so instead of having daily migraines now I have 5-7 month). It didn't seem to bother my head until that 8th week when I suffered with excruciating migraine and neck pain which radiated down my arms to my fingertips and my skin felt on fire with pins and needles. That lasted about a month and a half straight. Not sure if the TMS caused it or not. Went through a few rounds of steroids and other medications before it calmed down to the 5-7 monthly again.
When they do the initial fitting of the headwear and impulse settings it may take a couple visits to know if any adjustments need to be made. I developed tremors, like Parkisons, I guess because the setting was too strong but once they lowered the strength they went away. Unfortunately I didn't find it helped treat either my depression or anxiety. But I still encourage everyone to consider it. We're all different and we never know how our body will react to it. It's definitely been proven to work in some individuals.

 

[Tapir]

I see that the OP posted this question almost a year ago, but I thought I would respond in case anyone was looking for similar experiences.

I had bi-temporal ECT treatments with ketamine about 6 years ago for my chronic treatment resistant depression. I'm not actually sure how effective it was. At the time I did think I eventually got some temporary relief, but it could also have been the sheer act of doing such a extreme and time/energy intensive treatment made me feel like *something* was changing. Any benefits did not last long term. I had, in my opinion, a very good and thoughtful psychiatrist through a university do the treatments.

I did experience some cognitive side effects but for me they were mostly an amplification of things that I wasn't particularly good at to begin with. The two biggest ones were 1) I lost the ability to recognize some people who I did not know very well. For example -I saw the mother in law of my old boss (ahh ... small town life) at the grocery store. She greeted me by name and asked how I was and I had no idea who this person was. Eventually I got enough clues to identify her, but for the first 45-60 seconds of our interaction I was flying blind. I am not great a remembering names/faces to begin with. And 2) I would sometimes be driving somewhere that I had been 100 times and have a moment of doubt about how to get there or where in the journey I was. It would just last for a moment and then I could reorient. I'm not great with directions and get turned around a little bit easily, even before I had ECT. Both of these things lessened after I stopped ECT and went away completely in 3-4 months.

I stopped treatments for several reasons, the biggest one being that I have had some slight abnormalities with my heartbeat in the past (possibly due to eating disorder when I was young, but perhaps not) and the ECG I was required to get regularly (maybe once a month?) when I was getting ECT started to become slightly out of the realm of normal. My doctor assured me that there was medicine they could give me to correct these issues, but I didn't feel like I was getting that much of a positive effect from the ECT to continue.

I did not find the treatments themselves very alarming. They were really quite brief and routine after a while. Although, anesthesia will always be a bit unsettling to me. I probably had about 30 all together.