twolegs

twolegs

twoarms
Sep 17, 2024
31
It feels a bit hypocritical to try and convince someone else to live when you don't really want to yourself. I understand why they wouldn't want to be here anymore but it's hard to let them go that way. The thought of grieving someone who's so important to you seems impossible, unfathomable. I hate seeing people suffer. I've had suicidal friends and watched people suffer my whole life. It's just hard trying to pour from an empty cup, it's not that I don't want to help I just don't know how.



I'm guess I'm just wondering how other people manage this, surely I'm not alone.
 
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Hero Remeer

Hero Remeer

Member
Sep 22, 2024
39
In my case I don't think so, what has happened to me is that I have touched on the subject with people I trust and that has allowed us to get to know each other better through that suffering, that has made me think that most of us have thought about killing ourselves at some point in our lives.
The other thing that happened to me is that a coworker committed suicide, the news just arrived and that shocked me, but when you look back and put certain things together the person was in a certain sense telling you.
I think it's normal to be hypocritical in that sense, deep down we only want the best for the other because in part we understand that suffering.
Greetings, I hope you are well
 
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wren-briar

wrenbriar.gitlab.io
Jul 1, 2024
84
I have, but it was not when I was actively suicidal (although I firmly believed it was an individual's right long before hand).

I our case, we were on active duty, and I was an unofficial counselor. I.e a person, who I didn't know, would bang on my door in the middle of the night, with someone else who was claiming to be suicidal, who I also didn't know and tell me to deal with them. (Initially, I tried to figure out why these stangers were bringing other stangers to my door like this. But, at a certain point, I just accepted this role, although I never did learn why they thought I would be helpful, given we never knew each other. The military has some strange ways of dealing with things, and while I never did learn how I ended up in this role, it was better than many alternatives.)

I had a total of one "intro to psych" class, and they told us that if we were ever in such a situation, we should get a commitment to have breakfast or lunch with the person the next day. All but one person who was brought to my door, I was able to, pretty quickly, get such a commitment. Mind you, every single one was drunk, and I never did have a meal with any of them, but there also weren't any reported suicides, so our brief conversations and that meal commitment must have been just enough to keep those people safe until the sobered up.

The one exception broke my heart in so many ways. This young person had experienced something I wouldn't wish on anyone, none of the criminals involved were prosecuted, they never would be, and, as if that wasn't bad enough, this person had to work with those criminals day in and day out. Unfortunately, this person had turned to alcohol to numb the pain, but was underage, so was being prosecuted for that. (Yes, you read correctly, their assailants were not being prosecuted for a heinious crime, but the victim was being prosecuted for underage drinking.) Even after several hours of talking with this person and understanding what brought them to this point, this person refused to have a meal with me the next day, and was crystal clear what they were going to do if I didn't escort them to the psych ward. To be clear, they did NOT want to be taken to the ward, but they understood my obligaton, given the situation. I honestly bawled in the parking lot after they were admitted.

They were held on the psych ward for months until the military finally discharged them with a dishonorable discharge, using the underage drinking and missing a single AA meeting as the justification. Mind you, they had been required to attend mutiple AA meetings every single day for months while on the ward.

I ended up visiting them once or twice a week (even after I was told that doing so had put me on some less than desirable radars).

The last time I saw or heard from that person was after their discharge, when their parents took us out to lunch.

They were grateful to not be in the ward anymore, grateful not to have to work with their assailants anymore, and grateful not to have to attend useless AA meetings anymore.

Their parents were very grateful for everything I had done for their child (which, given the gravity of the assaults they had survived, still felt like far too little).

I know that the dishonorable discharge has undoubtedly had negative impacts for them, to include denial of VA support that they absolutely should have received.

And, of course, even decades later, I often wonder how they're doing.
 
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mango-meridian

mango-meridian

Member
Apr 5, 2024
36
I've never had someone confide in me that they were suicidal, but I'm sure I've known plenty of people that have been there and just didn't tell me.

If/when that day comes, my plan is simple: tell them that I won't rat them out, report them, etc. for having those thoughts. Then, if it's the right person/circumstance, I may even tell them I believe in the right to die. Of course, I also plan to let them know how much I love them and care about them in the same breath.

People need to have safe places to talk about these things without repercussions.
 
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twolegs

twolegs

twoarms
Sep 17, 2024
31
I've never had someone confide in me that they were suicidal, but I'm sure I've known plenty of people that have been there and just didn't tell me.

If/when that day comes, my plan is simple: tell them that I won't rat them out, report them, etc. for having those thoughts. Then, if it's the right person/circumstance, I may even tell them I believe in the right to die. Of course, I also plan to let them know how much I love them and care about them in the same breath.

People need to have safe places to talk about these things without repercussions.
I feel like for me, it's always been the wrong person. For some reason I seem to draw hurting people to me, I'm glad everyone that has confided in me trusts me with such information but it's just really hard to hear from a best friend or a partner. I let them know that I won't tell anyone so they feel safe to keep talking about it but idk what to do after that
 
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mango-meridian

mango-meridian

Member
Apr 5, 2024
36
I feel like for me, it's always been the wrong person. For some reason I seem to draw hurting people to me, I'm glad everyone that has confided in me trusts me with such information but it's just really hard to hear from a best friend or a partner. I let them know that I won't tell anyone so they feel safe to keep talking about it but idk what to do after that
Just by being someone that they feel safe confiding in you are already doing a lot! If your cup is empty and you don't have much to give, then you don't have much to give. If/when the day comes when your cup is more full, then maybe you can worry about it some more. My personal take is each person that's hurting needs something unique, but helping them to see what that is and how they can attain it takes work and energy on your part.
 
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-Link-

-Link-

Deep Breaths
Aug 25, 2018
426
Move away from the thoughts of being a hypocrite in this situation.

Look at your own suicidality as an ally, instead, because it gives you an ability to relate to that person on an empathetic level that most people cannot.

At the same time, you want to be careful so as not to take on too much ownership of their situation. If you find yourself in too deep, emotionally, don't hesitate to reach out for help in dealing with your own emotions.

So, suicidality occurs on a spectrum. On one extreme is "passive ideation" while on the other extreme is "they're attempting suicide right now." For anybody who deals with this, they can be anywhere on that spectrum at any given time.

If they're currently on the lower end of the spectrum -- maybe just lamenting life and saying how they'd rather be dead, but not actually actively suicidal, then maybe there is a conversation to be had, or maybe there's not. Sometimes just being with the other person -- just being present with them -- and the fact that they know you're available if they need support, is all they need. If in doubt, you could ask if they want to talk about it. Or you could request permission to ask them questions about it.

If you're talking to someone who is actively suicidal, you want to use direct language all the way through the conversation. This is to say, you're not going to do any harm by asking point-blank questions such as, "Are you thinking of suicide?" "Have you thought about how you'd do it?" "When are you planning to die?" "Do you have access to the things you want to use to do it?" These types of questions can act as a risk assessment of sorts.

General pointers:
  • You want to do more listening than talking.
  • You can repeat back to them (paraphrase) some of the things they say to show them you're actively listening.
  • Communicate in a way that's supportive, understanding, and free of criticism or judgement.
  • Maintain a reassuring, hopeful tone.
  • Validate their feelings.
  • Ask what's causing them to feel suicidal.
  • Ask how you can help.
  • Ask what they think would make them feel better.
  • Ask what reasons they have to keep living.
It's OK to push back on their reasons for wanting to die, but be gentle about it and as realistic as possible. Their reasons for wanting to die are distinct from their feelings; again, be careful not to make invalidating statements. If unable to think of reasons to live, remind them that the very fact they're engaged in conversation with you is evidence that they're unsure about their decision to die.

You could research treatment options for them. You could offer to help and support them in any efforts to engage treatment. But only do this if you're willing to follow through. Avoid false statements, false promises, and false hopes.

If you have to leave their presence while they are still in a state of emotional distress, then what you want to do is help them make a plan to stay safe through the night (or through to the next day or whatever time period). If they've ever engaged in treatment, what techniques have they learned to help get them through the moment? What distractions can they engage in? You want them to buy into the idea of staying safe in the short-term. Ask them to make a list of people and phone numbers they can contact if they spiral again in the interim. Ask them to promise you that if they start spiralling again, they'll make a call to a loved one, or otherwise emergency services if they can't reach a loved one.

And of course, with respect to the fact that we're talking about this on a pro-choice suicide forum... If the other person intends on dying in the immediate future, and they have a detailed plan, and they have ready access to the means to carry out their plan... Then, pro-choice or not, there is a difficult decision to be made, indeed.

This is just a general blueprint. There is no perfect way to navigate this kind of conversation or situation.

Remember you can only do your best, and your best is all you can ask or expect of yourself.
 
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NoPoint2Life

Why is this so hard?
Aug 31, 2024
108
Slightly different experience here. I had a friend who I met online waaay back in the dayand we only met in person twice. But we texted every so often. No social media .Back in those days, I wasn't actively suicidal, but it was something I thought was inevitable in my future. When we texted and I would ask how he was, he would always give me an answer like "I hope an asteroid hits the earth"
After not hearing from him for an unusually long time I just had this sick feeling. I googled his name and Sure enough His obituary popped up indicating he had committed suicide. I was finding out like 10 months after the fact. I didn't remove our text chain from my phone. it was like I knew I wanted to torture myself with it someday. Sure enough over a year later I was actively suicidal, and I looked at it. He was always giving off comments like the asteroid thing more than I remembered. I even found a part where I was said not to be a hypocrite, but maybe you should try therapy. It was just ironic, because even with how I felt for myself, I thought all the typical things Someone thinks when someone ctb. Like why didn't I take it more seriously, why didn't I try to help him more. Realistically there was nothing I could've done. We lived hours from each other, and I had no clue about contact his friends and family. It was also strange because unlike being mystified as to why someone Ctb, I could think of at least very 2 good reasons for him to do it. I just feel a bit guilty. Also tbh I miss not having him to commiserate with how miserable we are without actually talking about suicide. If I knew that subject wasn't taboo with him I might have bought it up..
 
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twolegs

twolegs

twoarms
Sep 17, 2024
31
Slightly different experience here. I had a friend who I met online waaay back in the dayand we only met in person twice. But we texted every so often. No social media .Back in those days, I wasn't actively suicidal, but it was something I thought was inevitable in my future. When we texted and I would ask how he was, he would always give me an answer like "I hope an asteroid hits the earth"
After not hearing from him for an unusually long time I just had this sick feeling. I googled his name and Sure enough His obituary popped up indicating he had committed suicide. I was finding out like 10 months after the fact. I didn't remove our text chain from my phone. it was like I knew I wanted to torture myself with it someday. Sure enough over a year later I was actively suicidal, and I looked at it. He was always giving off comments like the asteroid thing more than I remembered. I even found a part where I was said not to be a hypocrite, but maybe you should try therapy. It was just ironic, because even with how I felt for myself, I thought all the typical things Someone thinks when someone ctb. Like why didn't I take it more seriously, why didn't I try to help him more. Realistically there was nothing I could've done. We lived hours from each other, and I had no clue about contact his friends and family. It was also strange because unlike being mystified as to why someone Ctb, I could think of at least very 2 good reasons for him to do it. I just feel a bit guilty. Also tbh I miss not having him to commiserate with how miserable we are without actually talking about suicide. If I knew that subject wasn't taboo with him I might have bought it up..
I'm really sorry about your friend. It's hard to pick up on things like that unless you're experiencing it yourself, I understand that feeling of not realizing until after. Hearing people make "iokes" about something bad happening to them makes my stomach churn now.
 
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C

ctb2soble

The people who never frown eventually breakdown
Sep 29, 2024
21
My ex boyfriend was suicidal. He tried overdosing on Tylenol and called me when he was doing it. I stayed on the phone with him til the ambulance came to help him since he wanted help at the time. He died a few years later from a motorcycle accident and I am honestly jealous of him.

If I could leave now, I would. And I wouldn't even bother telling someone to not kill themselves when I think existence on this Earth is a living hell for almost everyone. Better to be dead and free, than living enslaved to the almighty dollar.
 
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CozyTime

CozyTime

Death should be a free choice
Feb 16, 2019
60
Try to show care and appreciation for the other person a bit but other than that the best you can do is be there and act like you usually are/have.

It is as you know ultimately their choice, having been in the situation for strangers, people I know and people I love and having both succeeded in helping and failing miserably at this point countless times there really isn't any other trick to it.

Consistency is of great importance, daily conversations can do wonders. Just don't lose yourself trying to save someone else.
 
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WildAtHeart

WildAtHeart

tired
Oct 1, 2024
17
when me and my current girlfriend were just friends we were dealing with us both being suicidal at the same time. shes fine for the most part now... im not sadly
 
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notwhereIbelong

notwhereIbelong

I'm so tired
Feb 12, 2023
96
On every occasion where someone close to me admitted to feeling suicidal, to any degree and at any point in time, it always turned into us just making jokes about it, serious discussions have never come out of it.
But I did stop someone from suicide once. It was at a time when I was actively suicidal myself, and it brought a lot of mixed feelings, I'm still not sure on how to feel about it. It wasn't someone close to me, he was a friend of a friend, specifically of a guy who I had been crushing on for years, I had only met him once at a party at his place. My crush texted me panicking because this guy was planning on overdosing, he wanted to call an ambulance but didn't know his exact address. As I lived close to him, my job was just to go to his house and tell him the address, so he could call emergency services. I only did it because I was willing to do anything for him, I had absolutely no connection to the guy. I still feel a bit of guilt, was it really my right to stop someone from killing themselves?
 
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wren-briar

wrenbriar.gitlab.io
Jul 1, 2024
84
@notwhereIbelong - That's especially rough.

I'm haunted knowing the details of the person I "saved", even though, they were ultimately grateful (to be clear, I'm not haunted because I saved them, rather I'm haunted that I had to admit them to the f'ing psych ward and that I couldn't do jack to bring any type of justice against their assailants.)

Honestly, I think I'd be haunted more not knowing details.

🫂
 
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killorbekilled

killorbekilled

depressing manhwa reader
Oct 3, 2024
21
In my case, I usually ask them if they have are going to have any regrets, and then that if they aren't prepared for them wait. I don't want to be hypocritical and I usually ask this to myself when I get suicidal.
 
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wren-briar

wrenbriar.gitlab.io
Jul 1, 2024
84
In my case, I usually ask them if they have are going to have any regrets, and then that if they aren't prepared for them wait. I don't want to be hypocritical and I usually ask this to myself when I get suicidal.

That's honestly the best single question I've heard to sum it up - for those of us who have given it any serious thought.

All but the one of the suicidial service members that I had dumped on me, were so drunk, they simply needed to sober up before making any decisions.

The one exception, I think they would have agreed that they would have regrets.

Both times that I've attempted in my life (early-to-mid-20's, and again several weeks ago, in my early 50s) my only regret was failing.

At this point, for me, the only possible regrets would be blowback on friends and another failure - hence a delay before trying again.
 
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Dot

Dot

Info abt typng styl on prfle.
Sep 26, 2021
2,843
I still feel a bit of guilt, was it really my right to stop someone from killing themselves?

Slf calld in a welfre chck on sme1 wh/ postd on FB tht thy wre goin2 ctb

Tht ws ovr 10 yrs ag/

If sme1 mkes thr suicde 'publc' or thy invlve ppl w/o thr consnt thn imo thre = nothng wrng wth contctng EMS

Whn slf volnteerd on suicde ht-lne & also whn slf joind sasu th/ agreemnt ws tht ppl wre adlts wh/ r makng thr own decsns & intractns wre prts of tht agreemnt

Bt irl slf rfuse t/ b mde a prt of sme1 els suicde attmpt w/o cnsent & thn mde 2 fl gulty fr steppng in - membr ctb on sasu = anonyms fr reasn in tht ppl r nt givng tht cntrol or rsponsblty t/ ech-othr

Also whn slf ws 16 a frnd tk dy frm schl bcse thy wre goin2 ctb & slf jst flt tht smethng ws up s/ slf calld thm frm schl py-phne & thn grp of frnds vistd thm t/ jst spnd tme wth thm - dd nt knw thy wre suicdl untl aftrwrds tho bt th/ grp jst Mbraced thm whch ws th/ rght thng @ th/ tme
 
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killorbekilled

killorbekilled

depressing manhwa reader
Oct 3, 2024
21
That's honestly the best single question I've heard to sum it up - for those of us who have given it any serious thought.

All but the one of the suicidial service members that I had dumped on me, were so drunk, they simply needed to sober up before making any decisions.

The one exception, I think they would have agreed that they would have regrets.

Both times that I've attempted in my life (early-to-mid-20's, and again several weeks ago, in my early 50s) my only regret was failing.

At this point, for me, the only possible regrets would be blowback on friends and another failure - hence a delay before trying again.
The reason most of us kms is because we don't have any lingering attachment to this world. Once you let go of everything, you simply don't feel the need to stay. Some may also have small regrets that aren't as important, the pros of death outweighing the cons. If the person is prepared for what happens, then they are ready to go. In the end, whether or not you encouraged or stopped them, it was their choice. If they are able to be swayed by a friend's words, then they weren't completely ready.
 
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futurebuscatcher

futurebuscatcher

Cat Connoisseur
Sep 15, 2024
54
Sort of– I have s friend th a claims they have notes written and everything but they seem mostly talk. When I showed how much I was actually planning mine they suddenly got really worried and didn't want me to die.

I did appreciate it but it rubbed me the wrong way only cause they seemed to laugh off my issues a lot before hand and it was easily forgotten. Still it felt nice to know I mattered.

I say it would have been better to offer your help and see what they want to do or check up in them more in little ways. Just show you care. It goes a long way.
 
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