Venting HARDCORE materialists aren't logical by definition, or by nature.

[Lucifer'sRight]

heaven, hell, reincarnation, oblivion, nothingness, consciousness created by your brain ALL have one thing in common. no matter how hard you want to deny it they're IDEAS in your MIND. and if you're not willing to question it, well there's a name for an idea that shan't ever be questioned, and it's called DOGMATIC BELIEF - commonly used mostly by RELIGIONS, CULTS, SECTS and anyone who wants to brainwash you.
how are people seen as more logical by virtue of being die-hard materialists is beyond me, since EVERY SINGLE PERSON studying logic knows, you can't know something, until you actually KNOW IT. you can't disprove the unknown.
is this an epistemological error???
this shit is beyond me.
you're either logical or you're not, but if you are then stick to logic, and not what is more comfortable for you to belief. people who claim they found proof that there isn't life after death make me piss my pants laughing. it's the most basic level of reasoning. if you're stuck hard on the idea of oblivion and no matter what you won't make an attempt at questioning it, then guess what? you're involved in RELIGIOUS THINKING, no matter how hard you want to deny it.
i wouldn't be so pissed, but more often than not i see sarcastic comments towards people who believe in the afterlife in here. or even people who only WONDER whether there is one. more often than not they're condescending and rude, and made by people who genuinely think they're above other people because they read an article online. wow, you read an article? on neuroscience? you must be the expert on the Nature of Reality, and generally The Grand Expert on All Things True. shame you don't understand how to logically dissect your own belief system you fool. so FUCK OFF from other people, or debate me, or fuck off

 

[Anathema]

Anyone who argues for or against non-observable phenomena and claims to have not evidence, but proof, is not an intellectually honest person.
I would go as far as to say that even claims of evidence, positive or negative, are intellectually dishonest.

The simple reason is concepts such as a god, or afterlife, in their traditional meaning, are not even expressible non-ambiguously in any language any human can come up with, so we cannot even assign to them meaning. It is well known that the pursuit of absolute truth is a farce. In epistemology, we have Agrippa's trilemma. In mathematics, we have Tarski's undefinability of truth and Godel's second.

Even in mathematics we only study relative truth, we cannot even prove that reasonable enough foundations are absolutely consistent - because if you know some mathematical logic, such a proof would be a witness to the inconsistency of the system itself resulting in contradiction. We can only prove relative consistency from stronger systems.

Perhaps the reason materialists are seen as more 'logical' is because it is a more safe position in the sense that, if you do not trust your senses and the material experience of your life, you lose. Whilst being a materialist isn't necessarily a bad thing, extrapolating from a physical philosophical point of view to talk about the possible nonphysical is meaningless - the language a materialist confines themselves to simply isn't rich enough for it. Similarly, the language a non-materialist confines themselves to would necessarily produce non-verifiable claims.

 

[demuic]

If that makes you feel better.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

you're either logical or you're not, but if you are then stick to logic, and not what is more comfortable for you to belief.

I disagree. Human beings are imperfect by nature and this means we all make the wrong decisions when thinking sometimes. Everybody has biases, and they might not be aware of them at first. Even the most logically-minded person is prone to issues such as emotional outbursts, or casting unfair judgements based on some subjective opinion taking root in the back of their minds.

 

[Lucifer'sRight]

Anyone who argues for or against non-observable phenomena and claims to have not evidence, but proof, is not an intellectually honest person.
I would go as far as to say that even claims of evidence, positive or negative, are intellectually dishonest.

The simple reason is concepts such as a god, or afterlife, in their traditional meaning, are not even expressible non-ambiguously in any language any human can come up with, so we cannot even assign to them meaning. It is well known that the pursuit of absolute truth is a farce. In epistemology, we have Agrippa's trilemma. In mathematics, we have Tarski's undefinability of truth and Godel's second.

Even in mathematics we only study relative truth, we cannot even prove that reasonable enough foundations are absolutely consistent - because if you know some mathematical logic, such a proof would be a witness to the inconsistency of the system itself resulting in contradiction. We can only prove relative consistency from stronger systems.

Perhaps the reason materialists are seen as more 'logical' is because it is a more safe position in the sense that, if you do not trust your senses and the material experience of your life, you lose. Whilst being a materialist isn't necessarily a bad thing, extrapolating from a physical philosophical point of view to talk about the possible nonphysical is meaningless - the language a materialist confines themselves to simply isn't rich enough for it. Similarly, the language a non-materialist confines themselves to would necessarily produce non-verifiable claims.

agreed. unknown is an unknown, so both claims (positive or negative) are equally "ridiculous" from a scientific standpoint.
i'd say another reason for materialists to be seen as more logical is the societal position of a scientist in today's society is equal to a priest in the times before. so strangely and paradoxically people look up to scientist's opinions for "logic", or "logical answers", forgetting that if you want to engage in logical discourse at all, the only authority is proof.

loving your answer by the way, it's such a relief to read something that makes sense, honestly..

If that makes you feel better.

see above debate me, or FUCK OFF

I disagree. Human beings are imperfect by nature and this means we all make the wrong decisions when thinking sometimes. Everybody has biases, and they might not be aware of them at first. Even the most logically-minded person is prone to issues such as emotional outbursts, or casting unfair judgements based on some subjective opinion taking root in the back of their minds.

yes, I agree your state of mind can influence your reasoning, but usually it's overwhelmingly easy to decide whether you do, or do not have proof or evidence for something. also your state of mind doesn't change the nature of what logic is. water boils at 100 celsius no matter if you're girlffriend left you or not.

 

[Anathema]

loving your answer by the way, it's such a relief to read something that makes sense, honestly..

you're welcome :)

 

[Lucifer'sRight]

I disagree. Human beings are imperfect by nature and this means we all make the wrong decisions when thinking sometimes. Everybody has biases, and they might not be aware of them at first. Even the most logically-minded person is prone to issues such as emotional outbursts, or casting unfair judgements based on some subjective opinion taking root in the back of their minds.

(not YOUR girlfriend, just to be clear, just an expression.) what i mean is that there are certain things that are very, very easy to decide, and very hard get confused about. so if you stick to logic for as much as you can, you can at least have a general idea of the world that is objectively closer to truth, no matter what

 

[little helpers]

heaven, hell, reincarnation, oblivion, nothingness, consciousness created by your brain ALL have one thing in common. no matter how hard you want to deny it they're IDEAS in your MIND. and if you're not willing to question it, well there's a name for an idea that shan't ever be questioned, and it's called DOGMATIC BELIEF - commonly used mostly by RELIGIONS, CULTS, SECTS and anyone who wants to brainwash you.
how are people seen as more logical by virtue of being die-hard materialists is beyond me, since EVERY SINGLE PERSON studying logic knows, you can't know something, until you actually KNOW IT. you can't disprove the unknown.
is this an epistemological error???
this shit is beyond me.
you're either logical or you're not, but if you are then stick to logic, and not what is more comfortable for you to belief. people who claim they found proof that there isn't life after death make me piss my pants laughing. it's the most basic level of reasoning. if you're stuck hard on the idea of oblivion and no matter what you won't make an attempt at questioning it, then guess what? you're involved in RELIGIOUS THINKING, no matter how hard you want to deny it.
i wouldn't be so pissed, but more often than not i see sarcastic comments towards people who believe in the afterlife in here. or even people who only WONDER whether there is one. more often than not they're condescending and rude, and made by people who genuinely think they're above other people because they read an article online. wow, you read an article? on neuroscience? you must be the expert on the Nature of Reality, and generally The Grand Expert on All Things True. shame you don't understand how to logically dissect your own belief system you fool. so FUCK OFF from other people, or debate me, or fuck off

well.

whatever one believes about death means fucking nothing. it's like nihilism. it's not either/or, it's neither/nor. and where does neither meaningful nor meaningless go to? fucking nowhere.

cuz no one on this plane of existence can know it. if you believe you exist in some form after death, there's sill no way you can communicate it to those here. it's worth it exploring something we *don't* know, but it means fucking nothing challenging something we *can't* know.

near-death experiences are still conscious experiences anyways. what conscious brains conjured up about things.

so they can piss you off, but that means fucking nothing. and I can be pissed off, and it means fucking nothing too.