Good Reddit post that summarizes how most people react to sad and suicidal people

[TAW122]

I've just come across a good Reddit post that summarizes how the majority of people in society react to sad people wanting to CTB.

Here is the post by u/Problematic_possum

I've reached out to people before and they just get hurt. They can't handle it because it's too much or too sad or they don't have the time. It's honestly fine. I understand that no one is obligated to listen to me or give me any of their time, but I know these will be the same people who will be upset if I'm gone. My sadness is so inconvenient that they'd rather me stay sad and destructive for the rest of my life than have to deal with any of it. There is no fix for my problems and I feel like it's selfish for them to want me alive when they know just how awful I feel. They don't have to help me, but they shouldn't get mad when I try to help myself.

More context: I've also done therapy for 3 years and been on multiple meds for depression, anxiety, and bipolar disorder. I exercise, practice self-care, and try to do my hobbies when I can pull myself out of bed. I have tried everything else to fix myself. I worked really hard just to keep falling to the same low point.

It goes to show how ironic most people are when it comes to not wanting to help, but at the same time not wanting to deal with the consequences of the suicidal person (such as the person CTB'ing or attempting to CTB). It's not about the suicidal person's feelings or interests, but rather about the collective and others' feelings. It makes my blood boil that society and other people in it can be so cruel as to not wanting to deal with suicidal person's circumstances or problems (which is understandable and it's not their obligation to do so), but yet won't respect nor accept that person's decision. Instead they would gaslight and invalidate the suicidal's problems and even go to great lengths to intervene (oftenly resulting in welfare checks, being locked up in a psych ward/hold, etc. and only making the suicidal person's life even worse, both financially and socially speaking).

Thankfully (so far), there hasn't been too many pro-life bullshit comments on that thread (yet).

 

[muffin222]

That sounds about right to me. I think a lot of people feel sympathetic and wish they could help, but it's almost like they wish or subconsciously believe that we could just "make" the depression vanish and our failure to do so is the real reason why we're not getting better. Idk if that makes sense

 

[TAW122]

That sounds about right to me. I think a lot of people feel sympathetic and wish they could help, but it's almost like they wish or subconsciously believe that we could just "make" the depression vanish and our failure to do so is the real reason why we're not getting better. Idk if that makes sense

Yeah it makes sense. People (most of them in society that is) are generally ignorant and lack self-awareness and introspection, unable to think critically or rationally when it comes to important and serious topics. They are also partially (or even mostly at times) driven by their instincts and programming.

 

[FreedomInDeath]

I am glad some people are turning around to realizing they cannot help everyone though. I feel so happy when I watch those documentaries on medical assisted death for people who have mental disorders. The doctors are so empathetic and realize there is nothing more to be done. There were doctors in Canada trying to advocate for it there as well but sadly it got turned down. Maybe when society matures and becomes more science based people will understand more.

 

[TAW122]

I am glad some people are turning around to realizing they cannot help everyone though. I feel so happy when I watch those documentaries on medical assisted death for people who have mental disorders. The doctors are so empathetic and realize there is nothing more to be done. There were doctors in Canada trying to advocate for it there as well but sadly it got turned down. Maybe when society matures and becomes more science based people will understand more.

I seriously hope so... but keep in mind there are humanists and other pro-lifers who (while not religious) will push for life at all costs and guard the sanctity of life just as tight as they guard the federal reserve vault (see the analogy here?).

 

[DoNotLet2]

Dude, you read my mind! I feel the same :P I am feeling a little better now but still highly unstable.
So... It's really like that in my opinion unfortunately. Shouting "SUICIDE IS BAD" is actually very easy especially when you are a shouting person in general. But being with a person, helping them? Em, nah.
I think that pro lifers is a name solely for people who are doing something to make death happen more rarely. If you just shout "don't die" then you are anti choice and a despot. But the society is entirely broken unfortunately... Yep thinking is actually painful and exhausting! We are merely animals in a world that requires thinking. It's abnormal for our species. So people try to make out in life as much as possible without thinking. But you can't come to right conclusions if you're just guessing. The conclusions must be wrong. But the people are living up to those bad conclusions...
You know what I think? We haven't evolved enough to live in modern world. We are nothing but the same animals like in the middle ages or even before. We can't evolve fast. That's why the modern society doesn't work and people go suicidal. We are fishing trying to climb a tree! (that's a metaphor). We must speed up the evolving. Be less rushy, impulsive and start to be more calm and empathetic. The world used to be either safe or not safe. It isn't so nowadays, so many things are spectrum! But our mind can't process that. It's either this or that in our mind. We always misjudge because we can't judge right if we don't think properly.
This is just my opinion ofc I'm not that wise to be fully right. XD

 

[TAW122]

Dude, you read my mind! I feel the same :P I am feeling a little better now but still highly unstable.
So... It's really like that in my opinion unfortunately. Shouting "SUICIDE IS BAD" is actually very easy especially when you are a shouting person in general. But being with a person, helping them? Em, nah.
I think that pro lifers is a name solely for people who are doing something to make death happen more rarely. If you just shout "don't die" then you are anti choice and a despot. But the society is entirely broken unfortunately... Yep thinking is actually painful and exhausting! We are merely animals in a world that requires thinking. It's abnormal for our species. So people try to make out in life as much as possible without thinking. But you can't come to right conclusions if you're just guessing. The conclusions must be wrong. But the people are living up to those bad conclusions...
You know what I think? We haven't evolved enough to live in modern world. We are nothing but the same animals like in the middle ages or even before. We can't evolve fast. That's why the modern society doesn't work and people go suicidal. We are fishing trying to climb a tree! (that's a metaphor). We must speed up the evolving. Be less rushy, impulsive and start to be more calm and empathetic. The world used to be either safe or not safe. It isn't so nowadays, so many things are spectrum! But our mind can't process that. It's either this or that in our mind. We always misjudge because we can't judge right if we don't think properly.
This is just my opinion ofc I'm not that wise to be fully right. XD

Good analogy and it makes sense, humans (at least thousands and thousands of years ago) were used to active lifestyles and cooperation among the tribe and not this kind of modern lifestyle. I'd say after the Industrial Revolution, things (technology, social, and economic change starts to occur at a rapid pace and of course, don't forget Moore's law) changed really quickly, and only faster as each few years pass us by. The world even 30, or 20 years ago is vastly different from what we have today. It's likely things will get worse, government starts to overreach, freedoms curtailed, and CTB being increasingly restricted by the people in charge, etc.

 

[DoNotLet2]

Good analogy and it makes sense, humans (at least thousands and thousands of years ago) were used to active lifestyles and cooperation among the tribe and not this kind of modern lifestyle. I'd say after the Industrial Revolution, things (technology, social, and economic change starts to occur at a rapid pace and of course, don't forget Moore's law) changed really quickly, and only faster as each few years pass us by. The world even 30, or 20 years ago is vastly different from what we have today. It's likely things will get worse, government starts to overreach, freedoms curtailed, and CTB being increasingly restricted by the people in charge, etc.

I know nothing but I love to talk so I will go on.
You say sometimes that you have poor social skills which I understand that you think you are bad at being a modern man. But would you be a worse caveman than a 100% neurotypical person? I don't think so. I am also bad at being a modern woman but I don't think I would be a bad cavewoman. If I got used to live in a cave if I didn't have memories about living in a modern society... You know I've heard a theory that autism is nothing but a different kind of brain. Imagine how great an autistic person would be in spotting danger. Being oversensitive to sounds, smells and changes - that would be a very precious skill in a jungle or savanna. And the communication was much simpler - there wasn't a very complicated language with nuances. The same goes about psychopaths. If you lived in a jungle, death, murder, slaying was something natural. You couldn't be too empathetic to make a decision. If your tribe was in danger, you had to kill. Psychopath the tribe ruler had to make decision. But they would also have to become highly manipulative to become a tribe ruler - people must think you can do the job.

And nowadays? We and psychopaths are considered nothing but a problem that needs to be fixed. Therapy for autistic people? Goddamn, I hate it. It is basically making you neurotypical. So called "therapist" gives no shit whether your autistic trait is good or bad. It is autistic it has to be changed. You know it's dumb sometimes because autistic people are often more sincere and open about their feelings - something is wrong and autistic people will tell you about it right away when the neurotypical person will be lying, smiling which will lead your relationship to collapse... But no, you gotta behave neurotypically, keep staring in the eye, because neurotypicals only think you listen if you look at them. Therapy isn't about helping autistic people with their problems such as possible traumas or depression.
Psychopaths become useless. Now ruling doesn't involve constant murder and the power is possibly unlimited. Thousands years ago you could rule one tribe, maybe two, now you can rule the world. Psychopaths can't stop. They never think that have enough power even when they have way more cash than they could possibly spend.

Can we live well in modern society? Yes, but we need to evolve it is hardly possible unfortunately. The nowadays school would be great for cavemen and slaves but it is very dumb for people that live in a modern world where nothing is 0 or 1 and you have to decide for yourself - listening to your ruler is often a bad choice. We also are a very unaware society - we know nothing about people living near us that are different for example Deaf people. Who knew that sign languages are the same languages as phonetic ones? That you can easily think in sign? And that's one topic there are so many things... And it's also uncomfortable for psychopaths and non psychopathic rulers. They could possibly lose their power is society was aware - they would have to be perfect/almost perfect or lose the power. That's why I have little hope.

We are fuckin computers and we don't know that! We think that we think in decimal system but we really think in binary! We are just good at translating binary to language! But computers don't get tired easily.
So about the main topic - I showed the reason why possibly so many people commit suicide (they are maladjusted) and I said why people hate suicide - they think in binary suicide either is bad or good it can't be sometimes good and sometimes bad. It's closer to bad so people assume it's always wrong even if it's not.
Just an opinion.

 

[TAW122]

@DoNotLet2 What you said is spot on, especially about how society treats suicidal people and that many MHP (Mental Health Professionals) only seek to change and get one to comply with the masses. They are nothing more than just enforcers of the state, policing behavior and ignoring the person's actual concerns. Contrary to what others say or may defend MHP and the field of Psychiatry, I find more negatives than positives on the grand scheme of things. I even had numerous topics about them too:

Psychiatry and Religion are two sides of the same coin

Also this, my experiences with therapy and counseling

And this too, re-clarification on why therapy and counseling isn't for me

Additionally, The evils of psychiatric holds and wards

Finally, this one, How therapy isn't for everyone (This one was when I had a small recovery that got me through the year 2019)

These are just the many threads I've written about my general dislike of the MHP and the field itself as well as how ineffective they are for solving my problems. I had much better success figuring out what I want and chasing those (sometimes ending up in failure but better than the bullshittery that is parroted around in world).

 

[DoNotLet2]

I mean not only about treating suicidal people by "professionals". I also mean that about autistic people in general. The behavioral "therapy" is like you are put to the table with 4-5 other people with autism. Those people are completely random, they have different likes, dislikes, tastes, mental capabilities, interests, views and so on. And the "therapist" tells you to make friends with them and gaslights you when you don't do it. I just wonder how many suicides were caused solely by that kind of "therapy".

It's very inconvenient to say that our modern world is not good. We have vaccines, transport, we can choose food, we don't have to eat what we picked up from the ground, we have access to vast amount of knowledge we got. People always say "don't complain, others have it worse for example children in Africa don't kill themselves so why would you?". So it's a very hard topic to talk about because we need to understand some things first.

Yep, the mega discussions like political discussions are almost always pointless because at least one side doesn't know the required definitions for example many people can't distinguish socialism and capitalism while talking about economy.
And that's why talking to suicide about non suicidal people is usually pointless. They don't know the definitions.

 

[262653]

@thrw_a_way1221221
I find it funny how people are unable/unwilling to help with problems that can severely affect those same people. I had a few situations in the past where I was too stupid and self-absorbed to notice the problems of others, like asking mother to stop crying when she was clearly dealing with some problem... Someone who is capable and willing to understand the problem might expect others to do the same, to change, but... how can we be sure that we're not setting unrealistic expectations for others? I feel like sometimes the conflict of interests is unavoidable. It's either the pain of a suicidal person, or his closed ones.

I know nothing but I love to talk so I will go on.

My thoughts exactly whenever I write something here. I also like lots of your other points.

Thinking can be really difficult... Especially when one is heavily loaded with daily routines and concerns. Sometimes I think of thinking as something that requires processing power, GPU, RAM or whatever. Being loaded with modern school program and social interactions can take so much resources that there's not much time (power) for thinking about other things. I've became suicidal when I had more time and processing power in my disposal, and was thinking about what do I want from life...

I wanted to say more but that would be too inconvenient to express, so maybe other time. Limiter processing power + priorities = we might not be able to afford to think too much about things that are of little concern to us. And good point about definitions. It's like trying to learn... like, linear algebra without the prerequisite knowledge, like counting, basic operations, relations.

 

[DoNotLet2]

I mean you're not the only one "the purpose of thinking is to stop thinking". We live on autopilot. We don't think more than it's required. You know brains aren't heavy but the brain in your body consumes 20% of energy that you have! So if you're given 1000 J brain will eat alone 200 J. At least that's what I read in a book.

 

[262653]

I mean you're not the only one "the purpose of thinking is to stop thinking". We live on autopilot. We don't think more than it's required. You know brains aren't heavy but the brain in your body consumes 20% of energy that you have! So if you're given 1000 J brain will eat alone 200 J. At least that's what I read in a book.

Wait... are you saying that we think to think more effectively efficiently, so we think less and consume less resources as the result? (Like prejudices.) I don't think I got it.

I heard that too, but from some online psychology course. Biggest mouth in the house.

 

[DoNotLet2]

I mean it was a quote. But yeah we want to be efficient and we want to think as quickly as possible.

 

[TAW122]

Bumping this thread and also had some scenario examples to illustrate my original post's point. The basic premise is that "people don't care nor want to deal with sad, miserable, negative people (which is understandable and of course, they aren't obligated to), but on the same token, they don't want the sad, miserable, negative people to take matters into their own hands by self deliverance or CTB'ing (they want them to remain miserable and alive just so they (the masses, people) would not have to feel sad, which is equally if not more selfish than the sad person)."

Scenario #1
Sad person: Man life sucks, I hate I won't be able to get xyz goal, desire, etc.
Other person A: Well that's life, just man up and keep on going!
Other person B: Look you're better than most people in this world, you got a roof over your head, food on the table, loving and caring people (fake as hell), *inserts more guilt tripping rhetoric..*
Sad person: *feels even worse* Ok, I'll shut up.
Both person A and B secretly look down on "sad person."

Scenario #2 (Case A)
Sad person: Man life sucks, I hate I won't be able to get xyz goal, desire, etc. I should just give up on life..
Other person A: No! Please don't!! I promise it will get better!!!!
Other person B: How could you even think about that?! Life is a gift, life is precious!
Sad person: *feels even worse and shuts up*
Both person A and B still look down on sad person, but with a sliver of 'pity.'

Scenario #2, (but Case B)
Sad person: Man life sucks, I hate I won't be able to get xyz goal, desire, etc. I should just give up on life..
Other person A: No! Please don't!! I promise it will get better!!!!
Other person B: How could you even think about that?! Life is a gift, life is precious!
Sad person: *feels even worse, stays silent, then later on, CTB's successfully*
Person A and B: Wow! We wished we could have helped him(her)! He(she) should have reached out to us! *virtue signals* Friends and people, if you ever feel suicidal or wanting to die, call the (insert suicide prevention hotlines) hotlines and don't be afraid to tell your doctor/therapist (people who have authority over you and can lock you up if they learn or believe (based on their opinion of course) that you are a danger to yourself or others, against your will and without actual due process).

Scenario #2, (but Case C)
Sad person: Man life sucks, I hate I won't be able to get xyz goal, desire, etc. I should just give up on life..
Other person A: No! Please don't!! I promise it will get better!!!!
Other person B: How could you even think about that?! Life is a gift, life is precious!
Sad person: *feels even worse, stays silent, then later on, failed to CTB*
Person A and B: Oh thank god he(she) is alive! Hope he(she) got the help he(she) needed. *inserts some more gaslighting and shame tactics*
Meanwhile, sad person's life only gotten worse, sadder now saddled with more debt (medical bills, hospital bills, and other stuff), then a blemish on his/her background check/records, and other consequences. Also pro-lifers, anti-choicers rejoice in their saving of a suicidal person, completely disregarding the fallout and aftermath of such an ordeal (financial, social, and other consequences).

Of course, not all people are going to respond like that or with the same words, but most interactions boil down to these scenarios and outcomes. It just angers me to how suicidal people are treated like criminals who have done something wrong or that they don't know any better.