autumnal

autumnal

Enlightened
Feb 4, 2020
1,950
I know that there is a prevailing view here that the PPH recommending 2 grams of Propranolol along with the SN method is a vastly excessive dosage.

I'm sure there are several people here who are also paid Exit International members, have any of you considered posting in their forums or contacting them to seek clarification directly from their medical experts on the dosage issue?

Although it's not a vital part of the SN protocol, it would still be a good way to get some certainty on this without needing to wait for the next PPH volume to come out.
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
3,138
I think PePH would be way informative if they used info from there because some of the advice in the book completely devoid of logic.
You are at the same time OD on propranolol and using SN. So it has to be clearly stated that this is a combined method.
I don't even say about places to buy N when people were going to Peru or Cancun and finding literally nothing.
Detergent method in the book is odd in PePH at all.
In my native language we have a proverb "Trust but check".
This applies to PePH.
 
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autumnal

autumnal

Enlightened
Feb 4, 2020
1,950
iu
Update: For anyone still following this thread, please note that the newest PPeH for 2020 (24 March 2020) reduces the Propranolol dosage to 1 gram (instead of the existing 2 grams). Note that this is still an overdose quantity of Propranolol, and so technically still makes their implementation of SN a 'combined' method.
 
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enjolras

enjolras

Dead are useless if not to love the living more
Feb 13, 2020
1,293
I think PePH would be way informative if they used info from there because some of the advice in the book completely devoid of logic.
You are at the same time OD on propranolol and using SN. So it has to be clearly stated that this is a combined method.
I don't even say about places to buy N when people were going to Peru or Cancun and finding literally nothing.
Detergent method in the book is odd in PePH at all.
In my native language we have a proverb "Trust but check".

Yeah many oddities. The ability to make updates is not used to correct extent.

Regarding street acquisition, at live workshops in 2019 and february 2020, Phillip continued to tell that N is the most easily available in Peru...

Proper revisions are needed in several chapters.
 
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autumnal

autumnal

Enlightened
Feb 4, 2020
1,950
Yeah many oddities. Proper revisions are needed in several chapters. The ability to make updates is not used to full extent.
[...]

Even the 1 gram Propranolol revision is missed in another spot in the book where they still reference 2 grams. A world-famous euthanasia clinician is all well and good, but it also needs a good proofreader!
 
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enjolras

enjolras

Dead are useless if not to love the living more
Feb 13, 2020
1,293
Agrees. This is common awkwardness unfortunately. More frequent than acceptable
They should hire an Asperger freelancer from time to time. They're excellent at processing details and noticing illogicality (many enterprises recognise this specific talent nowadays)

In the past, for some years, the PPeH was recommending 20mg Meto every 8 hours for the regimen, and 60-80mg for stat (different at different places of the book, just like you pointed out) - that could be checked with previous edition snapshots (pirated every x year, available for reference).
I was on their forum at that period, there were complaints about not getting a clear final answer by several elderlies who did not know on which feet to dance. Despite the anxiety expressed, no clarification to equalize the information to set it in stone, until much later

Since then, the Meto doses were cut by half... back then, the difference between the two doses of 60 vs 80mg stat (equal to the poor kid yesterday who got hurt at 20mg) could have been interpreted as not taking a position between an elephant and a mammoth dose, not minding to increase danger.

The history repeats itself with Propranolol
 
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enjolras

enjolras

Dead are useless if not to love the living more
Feb 13, 2020
1,293
Even the 1 gram Propranolol revision is missed in another spot in the book where they still reference 2 grams. A world-famous euthanasia clinician is all well and good, but it also needs a good proofreader!

Without knowing if they will take it into account, it's still a good idea to contact Exit Int by email about such observations.
I've made them put down web links that were no longer valid, w/ encompassing phrases deleted at the same tine.
They usually don't reply, no gratitude displayed, but eventually work out the fix in the background

The more people are behind their back about the same issue, the more results to expect imho
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
3,138
Agrees. This is common awkwardness unfortunately. More frequent than acceptable
They should hire an Asperger freelancer from time to time. They're excellent at processing details and noticing illogicality (many enterprises recognise this specific talent nowadays)

In the past, for some years, the PPeH was recommending 20mg Meto every 8 hours for the regimen, and 60-80mg for stat (different at different places of the book, just like you pointed out) - that could be checked with previous edition snapshots (pirated every x year, available for reference).
I was on their forum at that period, there were complaints about not getting a clear final answer by several elderlies who did not know on which feet to dance. Despite the anxiety expressed, no clarification to equalize the information to set it in stone, until much later

Since then, the Meto doses were cut by half... back then, the difference between the two doses of 60 vs 80mg stat (equal to the poor kid yesterday who got hurt at 20mg) could have been interpreted as not taking a position between an elephant and a mammoth dose, not minding to increase danger.

The history repeats itself with Propranolol
It is clear for me why PePH recommends using propranolol and I will use it too in case if I decide to go with SN. But even 1g puts us in a bit of a risk because in such an amount there is a good possibility to vomit because of propranolol. And yes, this is a 2-drug method. All this information means that PePH did not do a great research on SN (though they claim having 10 documented cases) and especially sodium azide, I think it is their weakest part. Also, Nitschke stated that there is no antidote to sodium azide, although in ICU you may be given same antidote as used against cyanide poisoning. There is no guarantee it will help and in some researches this antidote didn't show obvious results. No certain antidote does not mean it is a guaranteed death.
 
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enjolras

enjolras

Dead are useless if not to love the living more
Feb 13, 2020
1,293
Also, Nitschke stated that there is no antidote to sodium azide, although in ICU you may be given same antidote as used against cyanide poisoning. There is no guarantee it will help and in some researches this antidote didn't show obvious results. No certain antidote does not mean it is a guaranteed death.

Didn't know about azide, but SN (by IV) can be an ingredient of cyanide antidote, when some degree of methemoglobin is exceptionally welcomed. Not to repeat at home (russian dolls CTB > messy) lol
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
This is why I am suspicious of PN. He's been doing the PPH for years, yet he still puts out inaccurate and poorly edited information.

George Simon, the author of In Sheep's Clothing, the book about covert manipulation tactics, has a saying about manipulators: "It's not that they're not aware enough, it's that they don't care enough."

I don't mean to make anyone here defensive, but I notice in comments on this thread that there is a running theme of explaining away PN's poor behaviors. It's human nature to do so, especially when the person is providing something that's wanted, even if he's not providing it well. His only competition has been Derek, and one book isn't really competition. But someone with strong ethics, and acting out of genuine altruism, wouldn't need competition to act ethically.

As I've said many times on the forum, wherever there are want and need, there is potential for victimization. Humans are more willing and likely to overlook glaring inconsistencies and character defects when it's the only game in town, and even tiptoe for fear of losing it -- whether it's N from A, or now the ReBreather's long, drawn-out shitshow of a release. That product has its origins with Exit, even though it's been distanced by creating new organizations to develop it, award it, and sell it, with additional layers for distributing it.

Imo, PN has never proven himself trustworthy or reliable, only seductively desirable. The long-term waffling over propanolol, and the poor editing of changes, are just two more examples of many.
 
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L

Living sucks

Forced out of life before I wanted to leave
Mar 27, 2020
3,143
There is money to be made off of sick dying desperate people. End of story.
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
3,138
This is why I am suspicious of PN. He's been doing the PPH for years, yet he still puts out inaccurate and poorly edited information.

George Simon, the author of In Sheep's Clothing, the book about covert manipulation tactics, has a saying about manipulators: "It's not that they're not aware enough, it's that they don't care enough."

I don't mean to make anyone here defensive, but I notice in comments on this thread that there is a running theme of explaining away PN's poor behaviors. It's human nature to do so, especially when the person is providing something that's wanted, even if he's not providing it well. His only competition has been Derek, and one book isn't really competition. But someone with strong ethics, and acting out of genuine altruism, wouldn't need competition to act ethically.

As I've said many times on the forum, wherever there are want and need, there is potential for victimization. Humans are more willing and likely to overlook glaring inconsistencies and character defects when it's the only game in town, and even tiptoe for fear of losing it -- whether it's N from A, or now the ReBreather's long, drawn-out shitshow of a release. That product has its origins with Exit, even though it's been distanced by creating new organizations to develop it, award it, and sell it, with additional layers for distributing it.

Imo, PN has never proven himself trustworthy or reliable, only seductively desirable. The long-term waffling over propanolol, and the poor editing of changes, are just two more examples of many.
There are some less unpleasant but still noticeable things which are untold in PePH. More than 90% of places he gave us do not sell N OTC anymore and people are still travelling and getting nothing, he NEVER mentioned Colombia though it is the easiest country to buy N now. I did not notice anything about C in 2020, March edition and I do not understand how a person with a high-standard stealth could disappear from sources. He is considered the only trustworthy source on DN. When it has to be a page for C, he mentions N from J from C which stopped selling in 2017. Awesome. Instead he talks about multiple police raids and N from A bottles seized. I haven't yet heard that N powder was seized. If you know such cases, please, let me know.
 
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enjolras

enjolras

Dead are useless if not to love the living more
Feb 13, 2020
1,293
Besides Girobatol, which is a singled out internet order, is the Colombia path confirmed elsewhere ?
The small bottles conditioned at 20ml seem formulated at 50mg/ml, then 6 to 12 would be sought. Would they be convenient to get if available from the street ? Not so sure. The size of 1g is targeting sedation/anesthesia of home pets, but could kill 1-2 such animals. Would it raise eyebrows, require some extra convincing to talk out the salesman or to visit several shops to get so many ?
Same space overall (+20%) but may be more dragging attention from the multi-packaging, if onboarding them on a plane or send back to home country. Certainly suited for local consumption.

Have never heard of powder seized neither. A dark web powder is being tested by Exit (weeks old forum announcement). We might hear about C finally, way too late.
 
enjolras

enjolras

Dead are useless if not to love the living more
Feb 13, 2020
1,293
This is why I am suspicious of PN. He's been doing the PPH for years, yet he still puts out inaccurate and poorly edited information.

George Simon, the author of In Sheep's Clothing, the book about covert manipulation tactics, has a saying about manipulators: "It's not that they're not aware enough, it's that they don't care enough."

I don't mean to make anyone here defensive, but I notice in comments on this thread that there is a running theme of explaining away PN's poor behaviors. It's human nature to do so, especially when the person is providing something that's wanted, even if he's not providing it well. His only competition has been Derek, and one book isn't really competition. But someone with strong ethics, and acting out of genuine altruism, wouldn't need competition to act ethically.

As I've said many times on the forum, wherever there are want and need, there is potential for victimization. Humans are more willing and likely to overlook glaring inconsistencies and character defects when it's the only game in town, and even tiptoe for fear of losing it -- whether it's N from A, or now the ReBreather's long, drawn-out shitshow of a release. That product has its origins with Exit, even though it's been distanced by creating new organizations to develop it, award it, and sell it, with additional layers for distributing it.

Imo, PN has never proven himself trustworthy or reliable, only seductively desirable. The long-term waffling over propanolol, and the poor editing of changes, are just two more examples of many.

There's a little about explaining away and victimisation - I agree as a whole - in the sense that it ends up being descriptive or worse, subordinated by constraint. That's the problem when not much can be done. PN stays mainly out of reach, no matter the communication means, will dodge bullets or stay impenetrable if confronted. When you contact Exit by mail, it's staff who writes back (tied by wage?). On the Exit forums before, miscellaneous doctors, even nurse (volunteering?), were in the forefront for the support. Pretty much, we're left to deal with lieutenants / servitors
You described a situation of monopoly. Heck, some offensive defenders will be found respecting the dominant posture, out of comparison, because they fear even more the void of losing a guidance.

"It's not that they're not aware enough, it's that they don't care enough."
Spot on. As a consequence, I would supplement it with Einstein's quote :
"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything."

Past the anger stage, admitting there's to be fed up, exposing misconducts factually (without being threatening, just sneaky) is a first step of resistance cause it creates awareness of the product and leader imperfections. It deconstructs the showcased propaganda, but will only start to show results if it finds a relay with amplification and the truth loops as a sticky. Then more people can become offended from the lack of care they're under, defiant, or just more demanding. Without contagion, without a movement to face, the position lines of an "enemy" don't move much. Here lies the tragedy of many power games

Been violent in the past. Tried to sabotage a website when I had analysed its nociveness. Tried to oppose a welded group, whistle blowing. My rule was to adapt to the level of ugliness. Still today, I'm very much inspired by Malcom X stances. Unfortunately without continuous results, the efforts are unsustainable, the bitterness destroys and the dust is bitten. So there's to recognise where there are limitations to act upon, run for the hills if the retreat is more gentle. It does not mean forfeiture but internalising for preservation.

This makes me think. When Exit is being helped out, it translates into increasing their power, by taking away the evidence, not obliging them to improve. The justification is about bypassing the influential pivot in order to reach out for protection and safety.
Maybe it is indeed not correct, and the demonstration has to be pursued aside.

Exit's role is very much reduced around animation, not providing depth. Without doubt, this forum is many times a reference source of information, which leaks already. With even further proactive organization, we could be close to self-sufficiency. There is leading potential to attain in areas that never resolve themselves by staying dependant

(Did I cry my eyes out ? No ! I was working on my english haha)
 
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