Exit bag: helium amount and purity... is 97% enough?

[Singing In The Rain]

Anyone know how big of a tank is needed for an averaged size male around 90kg and the helium purity required for the exit bag method to work effectively? Cause a lot of places seem to put oxygen in the tanks now which sucks.

I think I know a party store that hires tanks of helium out which does 97% purity, the rest oxygen. Would that be enough? But you only get 24 hours to hire it. So it puts the pressure on when you want to ctb.

Is there anyway I could transfer the gas from the hired tank into my own tank and just leave it aside for when i really need it? How expensive are tanks to buy?

Where did you buy your helium and what was the process like, costs etc.

Any information on helium and your experiences is greatly appreciated. Or links to resources.

Cheers

 

[Deafsn0w]

nitrogen is better

 

[onewayroad]

From what I've heard any amount of oxygen can be a problem so I'd avoid that. I'd look into nitrogen or argon, one will be easier to get depending on what country you're in.

 

[worldexploder]

Nitrogen is better but helium is probably easier to get. Apparently there is a helium shortage so you will often find the dreaded "air/gas mixture" label on it. You wanna make sure you're getting the industrial grade stuff. Before all this, Exit International promoted Helium as the to go gas.

 

[onewayroad]

Nitrogen is better but helium is probably easier to get. Apparently there is a helium shortage so you will often find the dreaded "air/gas mixture" label on it. You wanna make sure you're getting the industrial grade stuff. Before all this, Exit International promoted Helium as the to go gas.

I actually disagree with Exit International on that point, as nitrogen and argon are anaesthetics but helium is not. I think that makes them slightly better options, although helium certainly works well.

 

[tevati]

I don't know, it's to risky. If you want do it, there are this mask for Tanks.

 

[creationisdeath]

You can get nitrogen from home made beer brewing suppliers without being suspicious

 

[Marc]

I actually disagree with Exit International on that point, as nitrogen and argon are anaesthetics but helium is not. I think that makes them slightly better options, although helium certainly works well.

I agree. one time i did many helium balloons and i felt like i was gonna pass out but it came with a feeling of panick and no anaesthetic effect..
Nitrogen would be better and argon might be even better, i think they said on Mythbusters that it stays in the lungs because it's heavier than air.

 

[onewayroad]

I agree. one time i did many helium balloons and i felt like i was gonna pass out but it came with a feeling of panick and no anaesthetic effect..
Nitrogen would be better and argon might be even better, i think they said on Mythbusters that it stays in the lungs because it's heavier than air.

Yeap, argon is my chosen method. Anaesthetic, heavier than air, and as it's used for welding aluminium you can buy a canister from a major hardware chain here in Australia. For nitrogen you have to go to a gas supplier.

The heavier than air thing also makes it easier to pre-fill a bag (although I'm using a mask).

 

[Singing In The Rain]

Yeap, argon is my chosen method. Anaesthetic, heavier than air, and as it's used for welding aluminium you can buy a canister from a major hardware chain here in Australia. For nitrogen you have to go to a gas supplier.

The heavier than air thing also makes it easier to pre-fill a bag (although I'm using a mask).

Thanks for the info. Do you think either of the follwing would work based on their product specs and size?

The second one is only 2.2 litres would that be enough? I like the price of the second and third one...


https://www.bunnings.co.nz/coregas-size-d-trade-n-go-argon-gas_p05910384
https://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/product/557-toolshed-gas-argon
https://www.buytoolsonline.co.nz/shop/uncategorized/1811524-argon-gas-welding-cylinder-2-2-litre/

 

[onewayroad]

Thanks for the info. Do you think either of the follwing would work based on their product specs and size?

The second one is only 2.2 litres would that be enough? I like the price of the second and third one...


https://www.bunnings.co.nz/coregas-size-d-trade-n-go-argon-gas_p05910384
https://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/product/557-toolshed-gas-argon
https://www.buytoolsonline.co.nz/shop/uncategorized/1811524-argon-gas-welding-cylinder-2-2-litre/

Well the first one from Bunnings is 2.1m3 which is 2100 litres of uncompressed gas, that's 140 minutes at 15 L/min. Which is plenty.

 

[Singing In The Rain]

Well the first one from Bunnings is 2.1m3 which is 2100 litres of uncompressed gas, that's 140 minutes at 15 L/min. Which is plenty.

Thanks for your answer man. Do you think the second one would be the right type of argon gas for the exit bag method? I like it cause its a disposable cheap one.

It says: "we import direct out of Italy 2.2L cylinders of compressed welding gas in the following mixes, Argon, CO2 and Argon Co2 mixed (Argon 80% CO2 20% sometimes known as ArgoShield)."

Would I have to ask them if they have a 100% argon one? Maybe they would have a gas specification sheet for it. Says it can last for an hour so should be enough.

And do you need a regulator such as this for it:
https://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/product/549-toolshed-regulator-mini

How do you connect the tubes to the tank?

I'm just doing some more research on argon and the exit bag sorry if these are dumb questions.

 

[Singing In The Rain]

Well the first one from Bunnings is 2.1m3 which is 2100 litres of uncompressed gas, that's 140 minutes at 15 L/min. Which is plenty.

Also this one is 97% nitrogen, do you think the size b tank would work:
https://eziswapgas.co.nz/product/nitrogen/

Has there been many cases of people using argon for suicide? it just doesn't seem as popular as helium or nitrogen.

Thanks for your help.

 

[onewayroad]

Also this one is 97% nitrogen, do you think the size b tank would work:
https://eziswapgas.co.nz/product/nitrogen/

Has there been many cases of people using argon for suicide? it just doesn't seem as popular as helium or nitrogen.

Thanks for your help.

1.0M3 is 1000 litres which is 67 minutes at 15L/min. So that is fine. There are definitely documented cases of argon suicides, and many accidental deaths as it's a very quick and painless death. I'm not sure why it isn't popular. It's basically the same as nitrogen only heavier (which is useful for prefilling a bag or mask) and both nitrogen and argon are better than helium because helium isn't an anaesthetic.


Edit:

Thanks for your answer man. Do you think the second one would be the right type of argon gas for the exit bag method? I like it cause its a disposable cheap one.

It says: "we import direct out of Italy 2.2L cylinders of compressed welding gas in the following mixes, Argon, CO2 and Argon Co2 mixed (Argon 80% CO2 20% sometimes known as ArgoShield)."

Would I have to ask them if they have a 100% argon one? Maybe they would have a gas specification sheet for it. Says it can last for an hour so should be enough.

And do you need a regulator such as this for it:
https://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/product/549-toolshed-regulator-mini

How do you connect the tubes to the tank?

I'm just doing some more research on argon and the exit bag sorry if these are dumb questions.

Yeah the second one looks like a good option, wish we could get those in Australia I have to lay down the money to rent a cylinder.

 

[Final Escape]

Anyone know how big of a tank is needed for an averaged size male around 90kg and the helium purity required for the exit bag method to work effectively? Cause a lot of places seem to put oxygen in the tanks now which sucks.

I think I know a party store that hires tanks of helium out which does 97% purity, the rest oxygen. Would that be enough? But you only get 24 hours to hire it. So it puts the pressure on when you want to ctb.

Is there anyway I could transfer the gas from the hired tank into my own tank and just leave it aside for when i really need it? How expensive are tanks to buy?

Where did you buy your helium and what was the process like, costs etc.

Any information on helium and your experiences is greatly appreciated. Or links to resources.

Cheers

Nitrogen works just as well and easy to acquire.

 

[crova]

Also this one is 97% nitrogen, do you think the size b tank would work:
https://eziswapgas.co.nz/product/nitrogen/

Has there been many cases of people using argon for suicide? it just doesn't seem as popular as helium or nitrogen.

Thanks for your help.

You need Argon or Nitrogen as pure as possible [ dont buy by mistake a mix with CO2!]
Not sure what the difference is between industrial and food grade. I would say industrial will be closer to 100%?
And as @onewayroad already mentioned 1000l is the safe minimum.
[I have 1600l tank of nitrogen]

 

[Singing In The Rain]

You need Argon or Nitrogen as pure as possible [ dont buy by mistake a mix with CO2!]
Not sure what the difference is between industrial and food grade. I would say industrial will be closer to 100%?
And as @onewayroad already mentioned 1000l is the safe minimum.
[I have 1600l tank of nitrogen]

Yea I'm thinking about getting the disposable argon one. Ill ask if its 100% argon. Put it aside for when i really need it.

It'll be peace of mind knowing i can go when i want. Looking up suicide methods all the time is really taking a toll on my mental health.

 

[crova]

This one looks good:
https://www.bunnings.co.nz/coregas-size-d-trade-n-go-argon-gas_p05910384
- make sure you can find correct gas pressure regulator AND flow meter for your tank.

two others from your links are too small ["ToolShed Trade 2.2 Litre Argon Welding Gas Cylinder.The cylinder to 100 bar (1450 PSI) and holds approximately 218L of gas. At 4LPM gas flow you can expect to get roughly an hours worth of welding"]

You will need min.15LPM for 60 minutes to success.

 

[Singing In The Rain]

This one looks good:
https://www.bunnings.co.nz/coregas-size-d-trade-n-go-argon-gas_p05910384
- make sure you can find correct gas pressure regulator AND flow meter for your tank.

two others from your links are too small ["ToolShed Trade 2.2 Litre Argon Welding Gas Cylinder.The cylinder to 100 bar (1450 PSI) and holds approximately 218L of gas. At 4LPM gas flow you can expect to get roughly an hours worth of welding"]

You will need min.15LPM for 60 minutes to success.

Yea I had a feeling those disposable ones may be too small. By the picture do you think the first bigger one comes with a regulator? The data sheet says its 100% argon which is good.

 

[NewDelhiGuy]

You need Argon or Nitrogen as pure as possible [ dont buy by mistake a mix with CO2!]
Not sure what the difference is between industrial and food grade. I would say industrial will be closer to 100%?
And as @onewayroad already mentioned 1000l is the safe minimum.
[I have 1600l tank of nitrogen]

But why 1000lt? As per the book 450lts is enough. But me being more cautious bought the cylinder that has litres of n2.

 

[crova]

No it's just a tank. Ask them if they can sell you compatible regulator and flow meter, or point you where to buy one.
Good quality regulators are not cheap but essential for the job. Argon ones are much cheaper then nitrogen regulators.

 

[crova]

But why 1000lt? As per the book 450lts is enough. But me being more cautious bought the cylinder that has litres of n2.

450l gives you only 30 min of gas - this is maybe enough for elderly, but not for 90kg man..
[450l tank +gas regulator is what Maxdog sells $780.00]

You want more to be safe; if you want to run some tests before the final run for example..

 

[NewDelhiGuy]

450l gives you only 30 min of gas - this is maybe enough for elderly, but not for 90kg man..
[450l tank +gas regulator is what Maxdog sells $780.00]

You want more to be safe; if you want to run some tests before the final run for example..

450l gives you only 30 min of gas - this is maybe enough for elderly, but not for 90kg man..
[450l tank +gas regulator is what Maxdog sells $780.00]

You want more to be safe; if you want to run some tests before the final run for example..

Can you pllease guide to the source where you read this information?
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2018/11/04/five-last-acts-the-exit-path-2015-section1-chapter1/
The information given in above mentioned link is in much detail on nitrogen/helium method
I have been reading almost every piece of information on hypoxia by inert gas. No where it is mentioned that one needs more than 450 lts.

 

[crova]

Can you pllease guide to the source where you read this information?
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2018/11/04/five-last-acts-the-exit-path-2015-section1-chapter1/
The information given in above mentioned link is in much detail on nitrogen/helium method
I have been reading almost every piece of information on hypoxia by inert gas. No where it is mentioned that one needs more than 450 lts.

It's entirely up to you and your confidence.
I know 30 min of gas is enough for most of people. This technique, when perfectly executed - guarantees one loses conscious in less than 60 second and leave this world in 5min...

But I once read about botched self-deliverance when a person was still alive after 40 min. What then? Coma and brain damage..
That's why I bought larger can.

 

[NewDelhiGuy]

It's entirely up to you and your confidence.
I know 30 min of gas is enough for most of people. This technique, when perfectly executed - guarantees one loses conscious in less than 60 second and leave this world in 5min...

But I once read about botched self-deliverance when a person was still alive after 40 min. What then? Coma and brain damage..
That's why I bought larger can.

Most of such stories are planted on the internet by anti suicide groups to discourage people.

 

[onewayroad]

Most of such stories are planted on the internet by anti suicide groups to discourage people.

There is a documented case in the medical literature where Dignitas used I believe nitrogen with an oxygen mask and it took over 40 minutes for the patient to die. But that was because oxygen masks are not airtight. I suppose the same thing could happen with an improperly fitted bag or a gas that contained some oxygen.

 

[NewDelhiGuy]

There is a documented case in the medical literature where Dignitas used I believe nitrogen with an oxygen mask and it took over 40 minutes for the patient to die. But that was because oxygen masks are not airtight. I suppose the same thing could happen with an improperly fitted bag or a gas that contained some oxygen.

Yes that could be the reason or if the lungs are not functioning properly..
if the n2 Is pure 99.99% , required size of exit bag is used, 25 mins are enough. But I understand as it will be the final act.. one should not leave any stone unturned..

 

[Help_Me]

So, for example, will I be dead if I am using helium method with a CPAP mask and tube even if there is a 0.0001 % of oxygen ? Shouldn't it just take a bit more time ?

 

[Singing In The Rain]

Yeah the second one looks like a good option, wish we could get those in Australia I have to lay down the money to rent a cylinder.

Looks like you can get them in Australia:
https://www.hampdon.com.au/disposable-gas-bottle-pure-argon-2.2-litre-combo-k

Does that have the same amount of argon as the disposable canister ones I linked to? I'm just wondering if they're too small for the job or not. What's your opinion on them, @onewayroad?

Here's a demo of them:

 

[Singing In The Rain]

According to google it looks like adults breath in 8 litres of air per minute on average, so you would probably want to use the 15 litres per minute of inert gas guide, to be safe, as mentioned by onewayroad.

How long do you guys think it takes to die doing this method?