Discussion Every parent is responsible for examining the role they played in their child's suicide.

[Tom9999]

Where did you fail to give your child support, understanding, acceptance, and empathy?

How did you fail to accept your child for who they where?

When did you exploit your child, at their expense, and perhaps cruelly and viciously, as a means of selfishly fulfilling your own needs?

When did you let your discomfort get in the way of accepting and discussing your child's feelings?

When did you shame, ridicule, or insult them for who they were or wanted to be?

And so on.

Notice none of these questions start with "Did you...?" That would make it too easy to turn away by saying "Never!"

But they all stem from the one necessary question:

"How did I fail my child?"

Exploring this question is not about diminishing your suffering.

It's about taking responsibility for how you treated the being YOU CHOSE to bring into this world, and who was, without their consent, placed under you and forced to submit to your words, actions, and governance.

You owe them this.

 

[SinisterKid]

So let me get this straight, you are saying every parent has responsibility for their childs suicide. Did you ever stop to consider that not everyone commits suicide because of anything remotely to do with their parents? My own reasons for contemplating suicide have nothing to do with my parents and I take full responsibility for my own actions. So how can my parents be responsible? I ask nothing of my parents and expect nothing from them. They are not a part of my life for my own reasons.

If this post is in response to other issues that have affected this place so badly of late, then post on those threads instead of posting a generic attack on all parents, regardless of the roles they have in the lives of their offspring.

 

[LastFlowers]

People don't even have a chance to examine their role, however big or small, because the world is always ready to absolve those left behind by suicide. The person who took their life will be held 100% responsible at the end of the day, no matter how much guilt and mixed feelings are picked through. Even mental health professionals are sure to let the family and friends know that it is-in no way-their fault.
Which I think, in part, is to continue the movement of suicide prevention. If you prevent guilt and critical examination of one's self, you prevent them from wanting, also, to end their lives.

That said, there're usually more than one factor at play when someone decides to ctb. Not necessarily more than one reason, but more than one factor.
The people in your life can be one, the feelings you have about yourself, on your own, can be another. Etc, etc.
Some parents hold more responsibility than others. But sometimes you can't stop someone no matter what you do, or no matter how comfortable you try to make them in order to continue living. Somethings are out of a parent's hands. Ofcourse, that brings up the topic of bringing the child into the world in the first place, as being enough reason to hold the parents responsible. But that's another conversation.

 

[Dubs]

So let me get this straight, you are saying every parent has responsibility for their childs suicide. Did you ever stop to consider that not everyone commits suicide because of anything remotely to do with their parents? My own reasons for contemplating suicide have nothing to do with my parents and I take full responsibility for my own actions. So how can my parents be responsible? I ask nothing of my parents and expect nothing from them. They are not a part of my life for my own reasons.

If this post is in response to other issues that have affected this place so badly of late, then post on those threads instead of posting a generic attack on all parents, regardless of the roles they have in the lives of their offspring.

He said every parent is responsible for "EXAMINING" their role, not that every parent is responsible.

 

[SinisterKid]

The title of the thread states that every parent should examine their own role in the suicide of their child, therefore insinuating, without much doubt in my own mind, that all parents who lose a child to suicide are somehow responsible in some way shape or form. Which is clearly not true.

If I have misunderstood the actual meaning of the post, I am more than happy to apologise for my previous reply.

 

[okaoki]

my parents would be relieved after i'm gone. my brother would be happy .



Edit*: i think my message got duped. multiplied by it self.

 

[JustHeckinKillMe]

"How did I fail my child?" By birthing them into a cruel world.

 

[Heart of Ice]

I'm just scared that my mother will beat herself up endlessly because of my death even if she had nothing to do with it and I made that clear in my suicide note.

 

[Wayfaerer]

Maybe what I regret most is that my mother hadn't killed herself like she was going to before my parents had split. Even the trauma of having a parent committing suicide would've been much less damaging than having grown up with her.

 

[LastFlowers]

I'm just scared that my mother will beat herself up endlessly because of my death even if she had nothing to do with it and I made that clear in my suicide note.

Unfortunately, for those who truly care, that reaction to your passing can not be avoided. It's inevitable.

 

[Tom9999]

He said every parent is responsible for "EXAMINING" their role, not that every parent is responsible.

Exactly.

So let me get this straight, you are saying every parent has responsibility for their childs suicide.

No. Please read the title of this thread again.

 

[SinisterKid]

Then my apologies for misunderstanding what the actual thread was about. Do all parents have a role to play in the suicide of a child? If not, and mine dont, I would not indulge their egos to that end, then they cant have responsibility to examine anything.

Sorry to sound stupid, but I cannot get my head around what you are trying to say.

 

[clownangel]

I'm just scared that my mother will beat herself up endlessly because of my death even if she had nothing to do with it and I made that clear in my suicide note.

Same here. Sure, would be nice for others to examine shit (not immediately blame themselves, of course) but on the other hand I know my mom would immediately turn herself inside out over it and her possible role even if I did all I could to let her know there was no form of blame on her. Ugh.

 

[Blackjack]

I can guarantee that if either of my children committed suicide, I would absolutely beat myself to a bloody pulp feeling guilty & responsible, whether my child absolved me of it or not. Any good parent would.

That's probably what bothers me the most about Shawn's parents, all of this outward focus on SS, etc. It's very misplaced, particularly since learning that this bill they are naming after their daughter is aimed at minors! Talk about missing the forest for the trees! They're not even in the forest anymore.

"How did I fail my child?" By birthing them into a cruel world.

*Mic drop*

 

[Stan]

Its an interesting subject matter. One that may need some context. Naturally for a lot of people here, they will sway to parents playing a big role. Yet in another thread on this forum, people have spoken about hiding the extent of their feelings and condition from their parents as not to worry them.

 

[Tom9999]

People don't even have a chance to examine their role, however big or small, because the world is always ready to absolve those left behind by suicide. The person who took their life will be held 100% responsible at the end of the day, no matter how much guilt and mixed feelings are picked through. Even mental health professionals are sure to let the family and friends know that it is-in no way-their fault.

Which I think, in part, is to continue the movement of suicide prevention. If you prevent guilt and critical examination of one's self, you prevent them from wanting, also, to end their lives.

You also prevent them from sharing with others their discoveries, which holds the fields of parenting and mental health back. The forbidden knowledge of the end effect of certain words and actions the parents destructively imposed on their child could be used to educate others and so improve the parenting skills society offers.

The automatic absolving of everyone of responsibility also encourages the guilt-ridden unexamined life. In order to offer ourselves forgiveness we must first take responsibility for our actions.

Usually when a parent attempts to do this, as you pointed out, people from a sense of their own discomfort are too eager to brush it all away.

Father: (Referring to the fact he brutally beat and viciously verbally abused his son for years) "Well, perhaps I was a little too hard on him a few times..."
Therapist: "Perhaps, but there is no such thing as a perfect parent."

Mother: (Referring to the fact she sexually molested her daughter weekly for years) "Perhaps I loved her too much."
Friend: "Oh nonsense! A mother's love is always a blessing!"

What if they had received these responses instead?

Father: (Referring to the fact he brutally beat and viciously verbally abused his son for years) "Well, perhaps I was a little too hard on him a few times..."
Therapist: "Okay. Tell me about one of those times."

Mother: (Referring to the fact she sexually molested her daughter weekly for years) "Perhaps I loved her too much."
Friend: "Exactly what do you mean? How?"

But I feel this almost never happens. It is heresy to ask a parent to look at the relationship between what they said and did to the child, and the child's suicide. This harms everyone.

The examples I used here are pretty blatant in order to make a point.

There are much more subtler ways to negatively impact or traumatize a child that have just as long lasting and destructive effects as my extreme examples.

Discovering those can only be the product of rigorous self-examination by the parent, something which as you pointed out the world to its detriment fearfully and actively discourages.

 

[Sweet emotion]

Where did you fail to give your child support, understanding, acceptance, and empathy?

How did you fail to accept your child for who they where?

When did you exploit your child, at their expense, and perhaps cruelly and viciously, as a means of selfishly fulfilling your own needs?

When did you let your discomfort get in the way of accepting and discussing your child's feelings?

When did you shame, ridicule, or insult them for who they were or wanted to be?

And so on.

Notice none of these questions start with "Did you...?" That would make it too easy to turn away by saying "Never!"

But they all stem from the one necessary question:

"How did I fail my child?"

Exploring this question is not about diminishing your suffering.

It's about taking responsibility for how you treated the being YOU CHOSE to bring into this world, and who was, without their consent, placed under you and forced to submit to your words, actions, and governance.

You owe them this.

My mother who is the best parent anyone could ever have never failed me in anyway. It's not always a parents fault if their child commits suicide. I'm 34 and got sick at 20 and she took me everywhere in the country for help. I have the highest ranking pain condition in medical history which she has nothing to due with. I understand if you have a problem with parents but you're making them all out to be the worst people in the world.

So let me get this straight, you are saying every parent has responsibility for their childs suicide. Did you ever stop to consider that not everyone commits suicide because of anything remotely to do with their parents? My own reasons for contemplating suicide have nothing to do with my parents and I take full responsibility for my own actions. So how can my parents be responsible? I ask nothing of my parents and expect nothing from them. They are not a part of my life for my own reasons.

If this post is in response to other issues that have affected this place so badly of late, then post on those threads instead of posting a generic attack on all parents, regardless of the roles they have in the lives of their offspring.

Exactly. I'm physically ill with the highest ranking pain condition in medical history which my parents didn't cause. All they have done is help me for 14 years and my mom physically cares for me. She is my rock and the only reason I've lasted so long. I just think that is immature thinking

The title of the thread states that every parent should examine their own role in the suicide of their child, therefore insinuating, without much doubt in my own mind, that all parents who lose a child to suicide are somehow responsible in some way shape or form. Which is clearly not true.

If I have misunderstood the actual meaning of the post, I am more than happy to apologise for my previous reply.

I took it he exact way you did so it can't be both of us. Examining the role they played in their kids suicide is saying they were to blame.

 

[Élégie]

Where did you fail to give your child support, understanding, acceptance, and empathy?

How did you fail to accept your child for who they where?

When did you exploit your child, at their expense, and perhaps cruelly and viciously, as a means of selfishly fulfilling your own needs?

When did you let your discomfort get in the way of accepting and discussing your child's feelings?

When did you shame, ridicule, or insult them for who they were or wanted to be?

And so on.

Notice none of these questions start with "Did you...?" That would make it too easy to turn away by saying "Never!"

But they all stem from the one necessary question:

"How did I fail my child?"

Exploring this question is not about diminishing your suffering.

It's about taking responsibility for how you treated the being YOU CHOSE to bring into this world, and who was, without their consent, placed under you and forced to submit to your words, actions, and governance.

You owe them this.

Very well put. I couldn't agree more.

 

[SinisterKid]

So are we now talking about parental abuse? If that is what you are aiming at and who you are aiming at, saying or insinuating "All parents" is a sweeping generalisation that is incorrect. If you are talking about parental abuse, in all its forms, which leads to a child taking their own life, its a distinction you fail to make clear.

2 members here are saying the total and complete opposite of what you are hinting at, but never actually state clearly, so although I can understand peoples anger at their parents for many things, not all parents are responsible for the suicide or suicidal tendencies of their children, so therefore cannot take any form of responsibility or examine said responsibility because it does not exist. That then negates your thread title of Every Parent, because it becomes obvious you dont actually mean "Every parent" but the ones who are abusive. In that instance, I completely agree with the point you are trying to convey. But then the thread title should read "Every abusive parent" which then offers the reader the clear distinction and definition of the thread.

Makes sense to me anyway

 

[Empty Smile]

My parents had nothing to do with my decision. My parents were the types who were considerate, passionate, caring and loving parents. They spent every possible moment with me and my siblings. My depression and anxiety came on its own, not by something they did.

So sitting here and automatically blaming your parents is stupid. If you're parents made your life a miserable existence, then that's on them. But to place every parent in the same shoes as your parents, is a shit move. This thread is shit, and so are your thoughts.

 

[Blackjack]

So are we now talking about parental abuse? If that is what you are aiming at and who you are aiming at, saying or insinuating "All parents" is a sweeping generalisation that is incorrect. If you are talking about parental abuse, in all its forms, which leads to a child taking their own life, its a distinction you fail to make clear.

2 members here are saying the total and complete opposite of what you are hinting at, but never actually state clearly, so although I can understand peoples anger at their parents for many things, not all parents are responsible for the suicide or suicidal tendencies of their children, so therefore cannot take any form of responsibility or examine said responsibility because it does not exist. That then negates your thread title of Every Parent, because it becomes obvious you dont actually mean "Every parent" but the ones who are abusive. In that instance, I completely agree with the point you are trying to convey. But then the thread title should read "Every abusive parent" which then offers the reader the clear distinction and definition of the thread.

Makes sense to me anyway

I'm not an abusive parent & I would still 100% blame myself if my kid killed himself.

 

[Tom9999]

I just think that is immature thinking.

I took it he exact way you did so it can't be both of us. Examining the role they played in their kids suicide is saying they were to blame.

It's not my thinking that is immature here. What's immature here is you insisting "Every parent is responsible for examining the role they played in their child's suicide" means the same thing as "Every parent is to blame for their child's suicide". It doesn't.

So are we now talking about parental abuse? If that is what you are aiming at and who you are aiming at, saying or insinuating "All parents" is a sweeping generalisation that is incorrect.
... not all parents are responsible for the suicide or suicidal tendencies of their children, so therefore cannot take any form of responsibility or examine said responsibility because it does not exist.

Please stop insisting "Every parent is responsible for examining the role they played in their child's suicide" means the same thing as "Every parent is responsible for their child's suicide". It doesn't.

My parents had nothing to do with my decision. My parents were the types who were considerate, passionate, caring and loving parents. They spent every possible moment with me and my siblings. My depression and anxiety came on its own, not by something they did.

So sitting here and automatically blaming your parents is stupid. If you're parents made your life a miserable existence, then that's on them. But to place every parent in the same shoes as your parents, is a shit move. This thread is shit, and so are your thoughts.

Your parents may have been considerate, passionate, caring, and loving, but it appears they failed to teach you how to respectfully communicate with others. No matter what your sloppy misunderstanding of what I wrote may be, this kind of talk is not okay. Take your disrespect and insults someplace else. Got it?!?

 

[Wayfaerer]

Yet in another thread on this forum, people have spoken about hiding the extent of their feelings and condition from their parents as not to worry them.

I've told her all the ways she had wronged me. She just doesn't care.

 

[Sweet emotion]

So are we now talking about parental abuse? If that is what you are aiming at and who you are aiming at, saying or insinuating "All parents" is a sweeping generalisation that is incorrect. If you are talking about parental abuse, in all its forms, which leads to a child taking their own life, its a distinction you fail to make clear.

2 members here are saying the total and complete opposite of what you are hinting at, but never actually state clearly, so although I can understand peoples anger at their parents for many things, not all parents are responsible for the suicide or suicidal tendencies of their children, so therefore cannot take any form of responsibility or examine said responsibility because it does not exist. That then negates your thread title of Every Parent, because it becomes obvious you dont actually mean "Every parent" but the ones who are abusive. In that instance, I completely agree with the point you are trying to convey. But then the thread title should read "Every abusive parent" which then offers the reader the clear distinction and definition of the thread.

Makes sense to me anyway

Well said.

 

[SinisterKid]

If a parent did not play any role in their childs suicide, there is no responsibility to examine, tell me how much clearer I can write that?

I have already apologised if I misunderstood the original post, but asking for clarification is getting me nowhere as you refuse point blank to explain anything other than constantly referring to one thing not meaning another, which I thought we had already established by way of my apology?

So again, please explain what you are trying to say because so far, after my initial misunderstanding, I have done nothing but point out the holes and errors in your thinking behind the original statement.

Once again, if a parent plays no role whatsoever in the suicide of a child, there is no responsibility to examine, therefore, your thread title is incorrect, which clearly states that EVERY PARENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EXAMINING THE ROLE THEY PLAYED IN THEIR CHILDS SUICIDE. They cant examine jack when there is nothing to examine. And to think I apologised for being appearing stupid.

 

[Darkhaven]

Oh, mine would have to do a lot of "examining" and reflexion.
One of them should think about the things he/she didn't do and should have done.
The other should think about the things he/she shouldn't have done and did.
One's innactions and the other's actions all contributed to my wretched mental condition.
But i can't put it all on them.
Sometimes i think that i was born destined to end up fucked up like this.

 

[Stan]

It's not my place to act as referee or be the headmaster but this is walking a bit into the territory of disrespecting each other

 

[Tom9999]

My disrespect and insults don't stop where your feelings start. Got it?!?

You not only admit you disrespect and insult the people here, but you also admit you don't care how it effects us. To act like that on a forum like this is despicable.

It definitely puts you on my (and I'm sure many others as well) "Ignore" list.

 

[First loss]

If I kill myself, it will be my responsibility and my responsibility only. They are abusive bastards that I hate with all of my hearth, but their role in the actual act would be minimal. Sure enough, they will maybe feel guilt but I do not give a fuck about that.

 

[SinisterKid]

Well because I am obviously stupid [self depreciation is my forte] Could the poster please tell me EXACTLY what he is trying to get at because every suggestion I appear to make is wrong. So just be straight, say what you mean and lets put it to bed and move on. Because even though I am not a direct parent, I am getting a little pissed off with what I interpret to be constant attacks on parental figures for the sheer sake of them being parental figures.

Maybe I am splitting hairs or being overly pedantic, but this thread seems to be to be another veiled assault aimed at parents, because the poster believes that every parent has some requisite to examine something that clearly, not all parents have anything to do with. If the poster believes that to be the case, say so, if not, then say so. Stop playing semantics and trying to be intellectual about it.

I shall now step to the side and read any replies that may or may not be forthcoming without any further response from myself because its obvious I am banging my head against the proverbial brick wall here.