Discussion Ethics of a partner

[ferrie]

Personally dying completely alone is very disheartening, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to ctb with a partner from a moral standpoint. I believe in the right to die, but I think that choice has to be made with a clear, rational mind & I see it as a last resort. Ctbing with a partner is a gray area from that perspective to me. I wouldn't want my decision influenced by someone else, and I also wouldn't want to be an influence. It seems really emotionally charged to go out with another person like that, and most cases that get publicized seem to stem from really tumultuous relationships. It doesn't seem that common here despite the partners megathread, but I wonder if that's simply due to logistics or if the tendency is to go out alone

 

[lizzywizzy09]

Personally dying completely alone is very disheartening, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to ctb with a partner from a moral standpoint. I believe in the right to die, but I think that choice has to be made with a clear, rational mind & I see it as a last resort. Ctbing with a partner is a gray area from that perspective to me. I wouldn't want my decision influenced by someone else, and I also wouldn't want to be an influence. It seems really emotionally charged to go out with another person like that, and most cases that get publicized seem to stem from really tumultuous relationships. It doesn't seem that common here despite the partners megathread, but I wonder if that's simply due to logistics or if the tendency is to go out alone

I'd also be afraid of what can go wrong. Say it fails for one of you, you'd be in sooooo much shit. That being said, still considering a partner because planning alone is overwhelming.

 

[ferrie]

I'd also be afraid of what can go wrong. Say it fails for one of you, you'd be in sooooo much shit. That being said, still considering a partner because planning alone is overwhelming.

Yeah it going wrong would be a big fear. I'd be worried about one partner wanting to abort too. It seems like a recipe for disaster. There's a lot that can go wrong logistics wise & just from the heightened emotions. I had someone awhile ago reach out to ask if I would consider partnering or a pact & they ctbed the next morning when I said I wasn't sure, so that experience has really stuck with me. I feel ya on the planning alone being overwhelming though. That's part of the reason I'm even back on this forum lol. I know WHAT to do, it's just overwhelming trying to get it prepared with no one to talk to about it

 

[Oathkeeper]

Unethical both ways. Accident happens, and whoops, you or the other person is headed to prison for murder. Alternatively, some people are psychopaths who only have intentions of harming you and others rather than going with you.

Do it alone or don't do it at all. Suicide is a personal choice.

 

[ferrie]

Unethical both ways. Accident happens, and whoops, the other person is headed to prison for murder. Alternatively, some people are psychopaths who only have intentions of harming you and others rather than going with you.

Do it alone or don't do it at all. Suicide is a personal choice.

Interesting & definitely probable scenarios. So you don't think a partner is ever ethical?

 

[Oathkeeper]

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Interesting & definitely probable scenarios. So you don't think a partner is ever ethical?

I do not. Too many risks, too many uncertain scenarios. Don't drag somebody else into such a deeply personal choice. Please.

 

[Twiceler]

I think it's ethical 100%, but, like in regular relationships, there are some problems with trust and not only with that. I call this paradox, (more unanswerable, than even math paradoxes). So I think it's not worth it to seek a partner for ctb, moreover, this only complicates everything.

 

[LaughingGoat]

It's interesting because I definitely respect your view, but I have the polar opposite perspective. While I am going to ctb by myself since I'm prone to solitude, I would assist someone else if it was legal. I think morally, if someone is suffering and needs assistance, then I want to offer it. To me, whether that's a homeless person getting a warm meal or helping someone desperate to exit life, the end result is to provide relief to their suffering in the way it's needed.

 

[notevenhere]

Do it alone or don't do it at all. Suicide is a personal choice.

I 100% agree. You can be respective and support your friend's decision to CTB but don't jump in and join them, if either of you fails— the guilt would be too big for the person left alive.

 

[LifeIsBS]

i would rather go alone tbh, unless they are complete stranger who want to ctb too with like inert gas method in a compact space or something that can be used for multiple people cuz that would be a big help for me, and we can contribute money. otherwise its a big no no.

 

[ferrie]

It's interesting because I definitely respect your view, but I have the polar opposite perspective. While I am going to ctb by myself since I'm prone to solitude, I would assist someone else if it was legal. I think morally, if someone is suffering and needs assistance, then I want to offer it. To me, whether that's a homeless person getting a warm meal or helping someone desperate to exit life, the end result is to provide relief to their suffering in the way it's needed.

This is a really interesting take to me. I think assisting someone and partnering are two different concepts, so I would love if you elaborated on that a little bit. Do you straight up mean you would be pro assisted suicide if it was legal?

 

[M48 Patton]

I think it raises a lot of problems, there is pressure on either side and legal issues abound. Ethical and moral implications too.

if people were offering N in their partnerships it would be more common because of the relative peace and rarity. But I Don't think that would make it any more right but I get why some people decide to go together. I just think the trust you must place in one another must be immense. Personally though I don't want to be responsible for someone else's decision. I know I want to go providing the right method works. But I don't want someone else to feel they have too. Each of us are facing unique situations and we have to make our own choices.

 

[Dusk till dawn]

Somebody who's looking for a partner probably have already made up his mind and have prepared everything he needs to suicide, i don't think you really can influence someone looking for suicide partners, you have to be so broken and tired from life for this idea to even come to your mind, anyways, the reason for why the partners thread isn't used much is due to fear of encountering a honeypot/trap such as a suicide prevention worker in disguise or a pro-lifer trying to sabotage you, overall lack of trust, and secondly the difficulty of travelling to partners in some scenarios

 

[ferrie]

I think it raises a lot of problems, there is pressure on either side and legal issues abound. Ethical and moral implications too.

if people were offering N in their partnerships it would be more common because of the relative peace and rarity. But I Don't think that would make it any more right but I get why some people decide to go together. I just think the trust you must place in one another must be immense. Personally though I don't want to be responsible for someone else's decision. I know I want to go providing the right method works. But I don't want someone else to feel they have too. Each of us are facing unique situations and we have to make our own choices.

That's pretty much how I feel too. I think a lot of people consider a partner just to not be alone. I know I'm going to go & it's sad that I'll do it alone, but I wouldn't want to influence someone else who could have potentially made a different decision

Somebody who's looking for a partner probably have already made up his mind and have prepared everything he needs to suicide, i don't think you really can influence someone looking for suicide partners, you have to be so broken and tired from life for this idea to even come to your mind, anyways, the reason for why the partners thread isn't used much is due to fear of encountering a honeypot/trap such as a suicide prevention worker in disguise or a pro-lifer trying to sabotage you, overall lack of trust, and secondly the difficulty of travelling to partners in some scenarios

I agree that you have to be at a very low point to plan to ctb, but there are many cases where people want to abort or can't bring themselves to attempt despite feeling like that's the choice they want to make. Backing out of an attempt is VERY common, and that would get very complicated with a partner. I think people should try to be prepared as possible, but imo people very rarely are fully prepared to ctb which is where my worry of influence comes in

 

[LaughingGoat]

This is a really interesting take to me. I think assisting someone and partnering are two different concepts, so I would love if you elaborated on that a little bit. Do you straight up mean you would be pro assisted suicide if it was legal?

That's true, I suppose there is a difference especially if it's like a suicide pact or something. Yeah if it was legal, I would literally let people use my shotgun, help them set up a noose properly, etc. I know this is controversial and respect most people think it's going too far, but if they were an adult who made it clear it's what they wanted but just couldn't get past the SI, I would do the act of euthanasia myself for them (obviously again if we lived in a world were that was legal). My only real exception would be I wouldn't help someone who has children who are minors.

 

[ferrie]

That's true, I suppose there is a difference especially if it's like a suicide pact or something. Yeah if it was legal, I would literally let people use my shotgun, help them set up a noose properly, etc. I know this is controversial and respect most people think it's going too far, but if they were an adult who made it clear it's what they wanted but just couldn't get past the SI, I would do the act of euthanasia myself for them (obviously again if we lived in a world were that was legal). My only real exception would be I wouldn't help someone who has children who are minors.

I don't think I've ever seen someone so bluntly express that they would do this. I kind of admire the type of empathy behind it. Even if it was legal, I'm not sure if it's a position that I completely agree with, but I could see it depending on how it's determined whether someone is decided enough in their decision if that makes sense

 

[LaughingGoat]

I don't think I've ever seen someone so bluntly express that they would do this. I kind of admire the type of empathy behind it. Even if it was legal, I'm not sure if it's a position that I completely agree with, but I could see it depending on how it's determined whether someone is decided enough in their decision if that makes sense

Yeah the way I see it is reducing suffering is the ultimate goal of helping any person or animal, so if it is their wish and I'm not causing undue pain to someone then it falls within the two moral tenets I live life by: don't cause suffering and reduce suffering of others where able.

Even people who see my side could argue that the person needs to do the act themselves if they are completely committed to it and don't hold any reservations. And that's not a point I consider to be unfounded so it's not something I try to advocate others do or argue for.

 

[hadenough58]

I have given this some thought several times and while I can understand partners who have been together a lifetime wanted to cbt together, to do this with a strangers is problematic and the only 2 reasons for doing it that I can think of are 1\ Dutch courage, as aside from the SI it is still a major step to end ones own life and 2\ logistics, as if you are finding sourcing a weapon or drugs difficult partnering with somebody who has access can make sense?
But you are dealing with a total stranger and you cannot know if their intentions are nefarious or if this is a phase rather than a well thought out decision.
Having considered all that I have decided that the actual art of cbt is a solo event but that does not mean I will not seek help and advice in my planning and possible collaborate in planning and sourcing the means