Venting Enslavement

[Darkover]

Now depending on what you mean by "free", there could be a different interpretation to it. There is one Absolute freedom, and then there is this relative freedom. and We do have some relative freedom. But no Absolute freedom.In no way, shape or form we are absolutely free. We are governed (for a lack of better word) by so many rules and laws - both from social and physical world.Our physical world has some very specific set of rules which can not be broken. The laws of physics govern this Universe of ours - where nothing can go faster than the speed of light. So there is limit to everything. You can not jump higher than a certain height. You can not escape gravity without external help. You can not go to outer space on your own without any help. This limits prohibits any absolute freedom.You do have free will - but that is also more of a illusion. Think of sex - how easily you get attracted to it. Can you escape - for real for every single time it tries to get you in its grip. So if sex can enslave you, you are not free. Do you do anything that's out of the world - if not then you are only following the things from the world around you - that's not freedom.Our social world of course has many rules and laws -so you cant be going out and about and doing anything as you wish - so your freedom is limited by those set of rules. So this freedom we enjoy is relative freedom.

freedom is always constrained, whether by physical, psychological, or social limitations. Absolute freedom — the ability to act completely uninfluenced or unrestricted by any force — is indeed practically impossible because of the fundamental laws that govern both our universe and our human nature.

Physically, we're bound by the laws of physics. Socially, we're constrained by rules and norms. And psychologically, we're influenced by instincts, desires, and environmental conditioning, which together shape much of what we perceive as our choices. Even our concept of "free will" often feels limited by external and internal forces that steer our actions in ways we might not fully control or understand.

Relative freedom, then, is the type we experience in our daily lives. Within this framework, we exercise some choice, but it's a bounded choice. This view challenges traditional notions of free will by suggesting that, although we have some degree of autonomy, our choices are almost always shaped by a variety of restrictions that prevent true freedom in the absolute sense.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Forever Sleep]

Do you think we'd still experience a sense of achievement if everything was possible for us though? Like- I get it. It sucks to be limited in so many ways but- it's a bit like playing a game on sandbox mode- somehow, I tend to quickly tire of doing that- do you? When there's no challenge at all. Maybe that's a limitation in itself though- being able to feel bored. I guess it can motivate us to do things but it can also drain our motivation- weirdly.

Of course, there's often too much challenge to real life! Some poor sods are playing a new release game, full of bugs and, on the hardest setting! So overall- that's also why I hold antinatilist views. I don't think it's fair to spawn a new life here and leave them to try and navigate this problematic environment.

 

[Darkover]

Do you think we'd still experience a sense of achievement if everything was possible for us though?

i wish my imagination was free to do anything it wants to do i'll create my own infinite universe with mathematics
i'll make everything immortal no need to eat sleep drink poo wee kill suffer, it real shame math can't produced emotions tho
stunk in this shit reality

Like- I get it. It sucks to be limited in so many ways but- it's a bit like playing a game on sandbox mode- somehow, I tend to quickly tire of doing that- do you? When there's no challenge at all.

well you've get to build and create it all with your imagination infinite resource infinite time

 

[Hvergelmir]

There is one Absolute freedom

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Usually slavery refer to the practice of exploiting people for labor. Freedom usually refer to your right to make your own decision (whether those decisions come from free will, primal instincts, or anything else).

Here you argue something along the lines of us being enslaved to natural laws. You're confusing slavery with restriction, and in the process you're equating some of the worst kinds of oppression in the world, with physical limits.

You are free to fly unassisted. The fact that you'll crash is not oppressive exploitation - slavery.
You're not free to build and fly aircraft without regulation. This is a restriction, limiting your freedom, but it's still not oppressive exploitation - slavery.

 

[Darkover]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Usually slavery refer to the practice of exploiting people for labor. Freedom usually refer to your right to make your own decision (whether those decisions come from free will, primal instincts, or anything else).

If we consider that one Absolute freedom could exist, it might be the freedom from existence itself — a state of non-being, where no constraints, rules, or desires apply. Non-existence, in theory, would be the only state untouched by biological drives, physical laws, or social structures because there would be no consciousness or self to experience limitations.

In existence, however, any form of freedom becomes relative because it operates within the confines of reality: physical, social, or mental. So, while we can imagine absolute freedom as a concept — the complete absence of constraints — in practice, it is elusive within the human experience.

 

[Hvergelmir]

If we consider that one Absolute freedom could exist, it might be the freedom from existence itself — a state of non-being, where no constraints, rules, or desires apply. Non-existence, in theory, would be the only state untouched by biological drives, physical laws, or social structures because there would be no consciousness or self to experience limitations.

In existence, however, any form of freedom becomes relative because it operates within the confines of reality: physical, social, or mental. So, while we can imagine absolute freedom as a concept — the complete absence of constraints — in practice, it is elusive within the human experience.

Non-existence is untouched by constraints, simply because it's void of everything. It's in no way associable with the high level concept of freedom.
While actors with omnipotent powers, unbound by reality can be imagined, they simply have no value in your philosophical model, and could just as well be cut out.

Your thesis then becomes a longwinded way of saying that people are affected by their experiences and circumstances.

Even if you could take decisions without being affected by experience and circumstance (and you can with the right drugs), it's not desirable to do so, and it's very much not what freedom is about.