Discussion Does the theory of Open Individualism scare the shit out of anyone else?

[LetItEnd]

For those unaware, Open Individualism is the theory that consciousness as a whole is all the same: meaning that no "I" or "you" exists. It is a property of the universe like gravity and electromagnetism, and as long as life exists, death as many presume would never be the end. Everyone would experience an infinite number of lives, although they wouldn't be able to remember any of their previous ones. To me it just seems like a complete mindfuck at best and at worst the most horrific fate imaginable.

 

[SawItOnce]

So long as I don't remember and start from zero, bring it on.

If scared, it might help to consider that if it is so, then you start with full energy every time. No exhaustion from this life will follow you.

 

[almaranthine]

If we are all part of this cohesive consciousness, living multiple lifetimes individually yet not being able to remember them, still consigned to this ultimate "oneness" yet we lead miserable lives, most of us, over and over again... what does that say about the whole? Is the oneness itself flawed... therefore we are, as a majority, so unhappy?

I'm not asking you specifically, lol. These are just questions I have in relation to this theory which sounds like a merge between reincarnation belief and new age spirituality, that being that we are all "one" and so on.

 

[SawItOnce]

Maybe this one consciousness is an ill organism and our [struggling] lives are in fact it attempting to heal itself, the way our cells do stuff to keep us whole and healthy.

 

[OneBigBlur]

So it's basically like Reincarnation? I don't believe in it but sometimes my strong sense of Deja Vu makes me think that we are stuck in a endless loop where we relive the exact same life over and over again, now that would be horrifying.

 

[LetItEnd]

If we are all part of this cohesive consciousness, living multiple lifetimes individually yet not being able to remember them, still consigned to this ultimate "oneness" yet we lead miserable lives, most of us, over and over again... what does that say about the whole? Is the oneness itself flawed... therefore we are, as a majority, so unhappy?

I'm not asking you specifically, lol. These are just questions I have in relation to this theory which sounds like a merge between reincarnation belief and new age spirituality, that being that we are all "one" and so on.

That's a really good point actually. It's part of the reason why I believe in Antinatalism/Efilism. If life has to be flawed so much that millions of organisms, humans, animals alike (possibly plants) are constantly suffering in one way or another, whether from baseline needs such as dehydration and starvation, to psychological needs (more so for us) such as boredom, loneliness, or mental illnesses, then what does that say about what created us in the first place?

 

[GerMann]

Life begins, live ends. Time and space is misterious. Who creates matter, every atom?
So much energy. I wish, I would never exist.
I'm afraid of God, the creator of everything.

 

[almaranthine]

So it's basically like Reincarnation? I don't believe in it but sometimes my strong sense of Deja Vu makes me think that we are stuck in a endless loop where we relive the exact same life over and over again, now that would be horrifying.

Jfc... the same life in an endless loop, that is a true nightmare. Sounds like an actual hell. I've felt deja vu poignantly before but didn't think much about its actual source. I'd read about that multiple universe theory and thought that maybe another me in another similar, albeit slightly different, universe was experiencing the exact same moment as me, and somehow our consciousnesses confirmed that. Or I thought that deja vu was a result of a premonitory ability of sorts, only available to us because time itself is a construct and the future, past, and present all exist simultaneously.

That's a really good point actually. It's part of the reason why I believe in Antinatalism/Efilism. If life has to be flawed so much that millions of organisms, humans, animals alike (possibly plants) are constantly suffering in one way or another, whether from baseline needs such as dehydration and starvation, to psychological needs (more so for us) such as boredom, loneliness, or mental illnesses, then what does that say about what created us in the first place?

I'm thinking that it means whatever created us made us flawed very specifically and only for the purpose of needing it/him/her to right ourselves spiritually and through spiritual purification, correct ourselves emotionally, even physically. I guess it means that "God" would be uninterested in a perfect world, that it/he/she wants us to fight to be pure and good?

 

[LetItEnd]

I'm thinking that it means whatever created us made us flawed very specifically and only for the purpose of needing it/him/her to right ourselves spiritually and through spiritual purification, correct ourselves emotionally, even physically. I guess it means that "God" would be uninterested in a perfect world, that it/he/she wants us to fight to be pure and good?

Maybe... I've wrestled with that thought for a long time, but just can't seem to wrap my head around it. If this "God" were to create us for the eventual goal of eternal peace and happiness, then why subject us to suffering and misery? It seems completely unnecessary if It had the power to create a perfect world, and would prove that It would be either malevolent or impotent.

 

[almaranthine]

Maybe... I've wrestled with that thought for a long time, but just can't seem to wrap my head around it. If this "God" were to create us for the eventual goal of eternal peace and happiness, then why subject us to suffering and misery? It seems completely unnecessary if It had the power to create a perfect world, and would prove that It would be either malevolent or impotent.

I've questioned myself about this many times and have struggled to understand God's identity so to speak. I think that God is reluctant to create a perfect world... because a perfect world would not need it/him/her. Perhaps God experimented many times before our particular creation and learned this. Our world is special on the very basis that it is fucked up and needs saving. Without the contrast of suffering, peace and happiness are lofty and meaningless.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

That's a really good point actually. It's part of the reason why I believe in Antinatalism/Efilism. If life has to be flawed so much that millions of organisms, humans, animals alike (possibly plants) are constantly suffering in one way or another, whether from baseline needs such as dehydration and starvation, to psychological needs (more so for us) such as boredom, loneliness, or mental illnesses, then what does that say about what created us in the first place?

I didn't expect to see an antinatalist/efilist here!
I agree with everything that you said here

 

[Mr2005]

For those unaware, Open Individualism is the theory that consciousness as a whole is all the same: meaning that no "I" or "you" exists. It is a property of the universe like gravity and electromagnetism, and as long as life exists, death as many presume would never be the end. Everyone would experience an infinite number of lives, although they wouldn't be able to remember any of their previous ones. To me it just seems like a complete mindfuck at best and at worst the most horrific fate imaginable.

I like the idea we're all the same. I am no better than you. When people kill each other we're just killing ourselves.

 

[Nnana]

Does this theory imply that you'd come back to experience different lives? Or come back infinite times to live the same life? My life has been awful. Don't tell me I'll have to live in an eternal loop. That'd be truly hell.

 

[jgm63]

All of these theories are mental constructs, and are therefore false.
The truth is just what is now, each moment.
If the mind is still, then what am I ?
I don't know, I just am.
Then the mind asks "but am I the only I, or are there many I's ?"
The problem with this is that the human mind is trying to understand something that is a mystery.
The human mind is the wrong tool for the job.
So the only solution is to be, and practice stilling the mind.
Then the mystery might be able to unfold, or I might descend deeper into the mystery that might go infinitely deep.
Perhaps I am a mystery.
Perhaps true understanding is beyond the human mind and human thought.
But don't try to think about what was just said....
See, you're at it again already.....
If something is real, and you are meant to know it, then you will in good time, and you won't need to imagine it or think about it because you will know it.

But the human mind hates this, and will fight back.
It wants to be "in on the action"
"This is so dissatisfying, I want to know !!"
But it can't be in on the action because any real or true knowledge is beyond the human mind.
So be still, and there is the possibility of silent knowledge arising.
Which is the state of being.

 

[LetItEnd]

Does this theory imply that you'd come back to experience different lives? Or come back infinite times to live the same life? My life has been awful. Don't tell me I'll have to live in an eternal loop. That'd be truly hell.

It means that you'd experience different lives for eternity, or as long as life can exist. You wouldn't remember anything about your previous lives.

I've questioned myself about this many times and have struggled to understand God's identity so to speak. I think that God is reluctant to create a perfect world... because a perfect world would not need it/him/her. Perhaps God experimented many times before our particular creation and learned this. Our world is special on the very basis that it is fucked up and needs saving. Without the contrast of suffering, peace and happiness are lofty and meaningless.

Doesn't that kind of imply Its hunger for power then? If his world that It created didn't need It, that would make It effectively worthless in their eyes, and no longer a "God".

 

[letmeseethedeath]

i'm not afraid of a new life because that one couldn't be worse than this

 

[LegaliseIt!]

Apparently, when I was 4, I freaked my family out. We were on a road trip, driving beside a river. I had never been to this area before. I pointed at a town that we were passing next to, and said," That town used to be over there." And pointed at the river. 20 years earlier, the town had been where I pointed. It had been relocated when a hydro dam was built and the original site was completely covered in water. So, who knows?

 

[Fragile]

i find this idea quite comforting. yes, it means that i will live through countless terrible lives, but it also means that there will inevitably be good ones.

not that i believe in this theory, but the idea of consciousness being something more, something greater and something that transcends brings me peace since i'm in the "i don't want to die but i can't continue living this life" group.
and if it turns out to be true, then there is no point in worrying about it since i wont remember any of my past lives and all the pain will go away every time i die.