Discussion does depression permanently diminish intelligence

[endofeverything]

i'd love to know if anyone else has had this type of experience, or knows anything about whether depression degrades your brain and your thinking skills, in a permanent way.

i used to be quite smart, graduating as top 3 best of my grade, never had trouble learning something new and basically never forgot things. people had high hopes that i would go to university. i had a strong imagination and could visibly picture things in my mind.

these days, i have to write lists just to remember the five items i want to buy at the grocery store. i would probably not pass a single semester of uni, if i tried as hard as i can. i struggle picking new things up, everything just feels confusing and overwhelming. i can't focus on anything for long anymore. i can't picture anything in my mind either, that visual image i used to get is entirely gone. i often stumble over my own thoughts during conversations and have to talk very slowly to not confuse myself.

feels like i'm so much less capable than i used to be. there's nothing i can attribute this change to, except the fact i went through several years of depression immediately after school, during which i did basically nothing and let myself rot

 

[33-vertebrae]

How young are you? And are you being treated? You might be able to turn it around.

I'm late 30's and have memory and focus issues, brain fog, constant dissociation even when talking to people in public.

My situation is probably unique because I've been under prolonged mental stress and anxiety from a violent household + untreated depression for over a decade.

I could probably turn it around if I got meds but they have bad side effects for me.

 

[endofeverything]

How young are you? And are you being treated? You might be able to turn it around.

I'm late 30's and have memory and focus issues, brain fog, constant dissociation even when talking to people in public.

My situation is probably unique because I've been under prolonged mental stress and anxiety from a violent household + untreated depression for over a decade.

I could probably turn it around if I got meds but they have bad side effects for me.

mid 20s. im currently taking meds again, as depression is back big time, but i was actually doing fine the last two years until recently. the diminished brain function wasn't getting better during that time, despite all the new things i was doing and trying. it's actually how i noticed it in the first place. the contrast to pre-depression school days was like whiplash.

 

[loneloser]

My ability to study, learn, and retain any information has been completely fucked. I'm not sure if it's the same for others, but I just can't remember things like I used to anymore.

 

[Hollowman]

My ability to study, learn, and retain any information has been completely fucked. I'm not sure if it's the same for others, but I just can't remember things like I used to anymore.

Same here, and OP the lack of imagination thing is called aphantasia. I have it too.

 

[endofeverything]

Same here, and OP the lack of imagination thing is called aphantasia. I have it too.

i've heard of it. i've been trying through creative tasks like art, reading etc. to train my brain into visually imagining things again, but it doesn't seem to work. it's just gone forever.

 

[fallingtopieces]

Depression certainly can affect memory, focus and concentration; can cause brain fog. I don't believe your intelligence or ability to learn is gone, more that it is suppressed. You mentioned that after school you went through years of depression and mostly didn't do anything, and let yourself rot. That broke you away from all your life routines, physical and mental, and all the regular connections the neurons in your brain were regularly making. You will recover and keep doing things like art and reading. Do you exercise regularly? That may also help. Hope you keep working on getting better.

 

[endofeverything]

Do you exercise regularly? That may also help.

i used to regularly until four months ago when symptoms got too bad to keep going. so far i haven't managed to get back into it.

 

[MercenariesofMidgar]

Honestly whatever pushes me to that point of no return the better. I know my brain will never be the same. My normal will never be what once was normal.

 

[Hollowman]

i've heard of it. i've been trying through creative tasks like art, reading etc. to train my brain into visually imagining things again, but it doesn't seem to work. it's just gone forever.

I heard of a guy who claims he's reversed his aphantasia. I don't have a link but if you get on YouTube it shouldn't be hard to find.

 

[oneeyed]

Don't quote me on this but I don't think depression directly affects intelligence but rather the other other symptoms that come with depression such as anxiety and stress which themselves lead to high blood pressure and other symptoms. Add all this together and you get brain fog, attention deficit, diminished confidence and motivation. The high blood pressure could lead to stroke. I think we are also more susceptible to getting dementia too.

 

[endofeverything]

Don't quote me on this but I don't think depression directly affects intelligence
-
I think we are also more susceptible to getting dementia too.

dont quote me on this either hhahah, but isn't dementia just an umbrella term for your brain degrading to a point where you cannot do basic tasks anymore? maybe dementia is increased in depression patients precisely *because* it degrades the brain permanently and lowers intelligence over time. just a thought, i obviously know jack shit about neurology like that

 

[longtime_lurker_123]

Depression affect my memory badly. i used to have an devent memory. severe depression destroyed it. now i have to write a lot of stuff down or i'll forget it in a few weeks. i used to never take notes on anything now i have to. at the height of my depression, i'd park my car in the uni parking lot in the morning, when i came out i had completely forgotten where it was. i began parking far back in the same spot every day just so i wouldn't lose it.

 

[flkywch]

it definitely completely destroys cognitive ability. the part where you talk about losing your mental image sounds quite bad ngl...

some hope and relatability for you - i was also smart in school and lost my cognitive ability. i'm not as mentally strained as i used to be, just don't feel much at all anymore, so i've had motivation here and there to try reverse the damage from when my depression was constant negative emotions. sleep, vitamin d and a good diet taking into account ur personal intolerances (products with lots of wheat actually make me feel like you are describing, something to think about with your diet, i can barely speak properly when i eat wheat lol) are what i have found contribute the most for me.

also had 2 years of drinking vodka black out wasted everyday unemployed where i fucked my brain up and i got my cognitive ability back (took a year to feel normal though). so there's hope that brain recovery is possible, to what degree i'm not sure. there's a lot you can focus on to recover ur brain tbh

 

[Pluto]

 

[Trismegistus_13]

There isn't any evidence that depression can permanently degrade your cognitive capabilities. It can however, temporarily reduce your ability to use them for as long as a person experiences depression, which may be a very long time. Actual cognitive decline comes from things like TBIs, strokes/infarcts, increased intracranial pressure and dementia.

 

[ForgottenAgain]

I have no background in neurology or medicine so I don't know for sure. However, I'd like to mention that, I think, what may affect that is the change in your routines. And that doesn't mean your brain function decreased, but rather than your brain got used to not being challenged in that way.

My case with depression is the opposite to you for example. I always used to be a mediocre kid but when I reached my teen years and got depressed, for some years my grades fell down but at some point in high school, I started excelling. I don't think it was depression, I think that happened because my house life was horrible and I had this certainty I could turn my life around if I studied like hell and got a job as soon as I finished education.

At some point I had an amazing memory, didn't need to study much at all. The books pages would appear in my mind during the tests. Then I took medication and that changed forever. I know it was Zolpidem's fault. I then had to spend months playing memory games so I wouldn't forget mudane things during the day. It improved a bit but was never the same and never will be.

I have a job that requires me to learn a lot of new things constantly so I my brain stays sharp. I think the impact of depression on your habits may be the most important cause for that perceived mental decline. It is hard to challenge your brain when you feel like sleeping all the time and just wishing to die.

I know nothing about neurology but I'd say, unless you have a strong inkling that medication caused that (which doesn't seem the case), don't stress too much about it. Try to challenge your brain if you can and want to. A lot can be achieved with will and persistence alone.

 

[nogods4me]

Yep, it can ruin your brain for life.

 

[The_Hunter]

I heard of a guy who claims he's reversed his aphantasia. I don't have a link but if you get on YouTube it shouldn't be hard to find.

Hello friend. Did a little searching for you. I believe I found that video, and a few other links as well. Have at it!:

CAN WE CURE APHANTASIA?—by "Prof Joel Pearson" (a real PhD, according to Google Scholar, here)

A couple links from the "Aphantasia Network":

Can you heal acquired aphantasia?
Is there a cure for aphantasia?

Also found a few interesting links on reddit, too—
FAQ posts on r/CureAphantasia (I counted 4 posts in here)
A post pinned to the head of the subreddit

Hope this helps, friend.

It appears things vary, and depending on the situation, a cure may be possible. Best of luck.

 

[Shiru]

Well in my experience I have now 5 years and months with chronic depression and now anxiety too but with depression I can say from experience that I can still study and learn actually I'm in college but I don't feel capable of doing really well as I used to do it before I got the illness so yeah my intelligence got bad or a bit bad

 

[Michi_Violeta]

I wouldn't say I'm dumber in the sense I'm still considered very knowledgeable and skilled by my peers, but my memory skills —particularly short term memory— have gone to hell and my concentration has taken a deep dive the last few months because 20% of my brain (at least) is always reserved for ruminating stuff about my ex.

 

[vitbar]

When in a depressive episode my memory and concentration suffer. I have little tolerance for anything difficult too, like challenging tasks that require a lot of thought.

I haven't had this be permanent thankfully. In the gaps between the episodes my mind seems sharp again and I enjoy the challenge.

One other thing is habit. If you're out of practice exercising your mental faculties in a given way it'll feel awkward and unpleasant at first.

 

[Poltergeist]

I haven't had this be permanent thankfully. In the gaps between the episodes my mind seems sharp again and I enjoy the challenge.

Came here to say a similar thing.

As personal experience with mood swings, I can go from a functional human being completing tasks thoughtfully for 8 hours, to a person with all their faculties collapsed. My motor function collapses and I start dropping stuff, I get bad at driving, I struggle to form sentences, struggle to think complex thoughts, forget basic words in every sentence, stutter when talking, thinking hurts, etc etc.
Yet, when mood changes it disappears entirely and my mind is back to functioning. And its a minority of days when my mind works, so it does it even with familiarity to the dysfunction.

The point of this is to say, extreme breakdowns of cognition and intelligence can happen in a brain that isn't permanently damaged and the brain can turn it off and on like nothing from my experience. Experiencing it doesn't mean the brain is stuck that way.

Statistically and from brain imaging they will say there are potential permanent effects of depression which may be harder to undo in terms of neuroplasticity, although these studies as always are tentative because things are hard to measure. The actual outcome of a percentage of brain area size change is hard to measure in terms of experience. Methods to try and undo those changes exist like meditation etc.

 

[The_Hunter]

Came here to say a similar thing.

As personal experience with mood swings, I can go from a functional human being completing tasks thoughtfully for 8 hours, to a person with all their faculties collapsed. My motor function collapses and I start dropping stuff, I get bad at driving, I struggle to form sentences, struggle to think complex thoughts, forget basic words in every sentence, stutter when talking, thinking hurts, etc etc.
Yet, when mood changes it disappears entirely and my mind is back to functioning. And its a minority of days when my mind works, so it does it even with familiarity to the dysfunction.

The point of this is to say, extreme breakdowns of cognition and intelligence can happen in a brain that isn't permanently damaged and the brain can turn it off and on like nothing from my experience. Experiencing it doesn't mean the brain is stuck that way.

Statistically and from brain imaging they will say there are potential permanent effects of depression which may be harder to undo in terms of neuroplasticity, although these studies as always are tentative because things are hard to measure. The actual outcome of a percentage of brain area size change is hard to measure in terms of experience. Methods to try and undo those changes exist like meditation etc.

Thank you very much for your post. Truly!

As a person who experiences some degree of productive dysfunction from time to time (can struggle to focus on the most important task at hand sometimes and get distracted) it is very reassuring to note that this is a mode that can be switched out of.

Wishing you all the best! This is a very resourceful and useful comment. I thank you for your words and highly pertinent information :D

 

[penguinl0v3s]

I think studies have shown that the lost intelligence is recoverable once you recover from depression, but not if it's been for too much of a long time. Neuroplasticity. Depression and anxiety themselves impair cognitive function. I've improved a lot, but I'm not back at my original memory state still. I used to have a 3.8, then it went to 2.0, and now I'm back to 3.6GPA. I don't lose my keys or phone at all anymore, but I used to every single day.

 

[JoysoftheEmptiness]

I'm depressed as hell, still as intelligent as before. Moods and IQ are not related.

 

[Sutter]

i'd love to know if anyone else has had this type of experience, or knows anything about whether depression degrades your brain and your thinking skills, in a permanent way.

i used to be quite smart, graduating as top 3 best of my grade, never had trouble learning something new and basically never forgot things. people had high hopes that i would go to university. i had a strong imagination and could visibly picture things in my mind.

these days, i have to write lists just to remember the five items i want to buy at the grocery store. i would probably not pass a single semester of uni, if i tried as hard as i can. i struggle picking new things up, everything just feels confusing and overwhelming. i can't focus on anything for long anymore. i can't picture anything in my mind either, that visual image i used to get is entirely gone. i often stumble over my own thoughts during conversations and have to talk very slowly to not confuse myself.

feels like i'm so much less capable than i used to be. there's nothing i can attribute this change to, except the fact i went through several years of depression immediately after school, during which i did basically nothing and let myself rot

Reflection.

Lot of input already, so just a recounting of how it works for me. There is a fog that rolls in at times, as trauma settled in and around. I think though, it is and was a survival insulating blanket. If something is not needed it gets dropped, not always completely forgotten but more a pine cone that was once slobbered on is put aside to watch a fish swim.

Pinprick vision keeps me functioning. An extreme focus on a single thought to drown the others for a time. It's how a slow gait took me through most heavy hits. Have moments as you have had, just forgetting too much and even the focus wanes. Like leaves in fall, the unattended thoughts pile haphazardly on the ground, and any trail is buried in life's discarded leavings, tree droppings, better than pigeons but still a mess. Honestly, at those times I try to steal time, thief I know, and just lie down in the leaves. Pick one, just one and run my senses over it as best I can. About the second or third leaf, a depression wind picks up with clouds dark and rolling fast, leaves moving as fish in the wind and I'm back up for a bit on my way.

As others have mentioned I don't think it's a lack of intelligence but rather a hefty leaf load that pulls on the steady focus of a mind with too many fears, deep veins of untouched feelings, and utter untethered drifting or an all encompassing never ending state. That there breaks a mind or at least gives it pause.

Same as all old and dieing things, perhaps it's not intelligence we lack but rather at the end of everything an ability to stack blocks, organize.

Will pad off with my slobbery pine cone till next the leaves bury the trail.

 

[SadFoxDreamer83]

I was born in 1983 and I have had several bouts of depression since 2001. I am clear that every time I have depression, my mental capacity goes into slow motion, my energy decreases, etc. etc. Depression is like kryptonite for SUPERMAN. As soon as you manage to eliminate it, you return to being who you were when you were not depressed, but even stronger physically, mentally and spiritually. The difficult thing is to overcome depression with your own willpower and not fall into it again.

 

[OnlyOutcastsMourn]

Memory is an important factor in intelligence, and people suffering with depression also having poor memory is a long observed symptom. The 'why' isn't though other than the symptoms being more related to anxiety and stress, which causes a brain to have smaller hippocampus—the part of the brain most responsible for learning and forming memories.

A related theory I see, and the one I like most, is the minds of the chronicly depressed train themselves to focus on the negative beyond what is natural. The mind makes 'neural pathways' and they get stronger the more they are used, this is how memories are formed, and it's how you learn a skill. The strongest neural pathways are what creates things like long-term memory, habits, and reflex.

It's theorised that having more negative experiences makes recalling them require little cognitive effort, at the expense of the formation of other memories—it takes up more space and creates 'traffic'. The recall of negative memories gets easier, when it is already easy, at the expense of the recall of the positive or neutral. This is what makes chronic depression a hard demon to slay, it compounds on itself leading to more severe depression, and becoming depressed easier—which is why a those with chronic depression often have bouts of happiness and quickly rebound. When you form a strong neural pathway, it is difficult to 'unlearn', anyone who has tried to force themselves to stop a habit will tell you as much.

The brain already has a very strong bias towards remembering negative experiences, it is an important survival tool, and we aren't as far removed from hunter-gatherers as we like to pretend. The problem is we live in a complex society and our brains can't tell the difference between the life-or-death scenarios common in prehistory and the substantially different nightmare that is modern society. Our brain sends the same messages and distributes the same chemicals they have for millions of years, it can't tell the difference between a job interview or the test tomorrow and a wolf howling in the night when all you have for shelter is a lean-to.

I don't feel less intelligent, however my memory has always been awful, there are entire blocks of my life I do not remember. Notable events are mentioned to me that I just cannot recall, the memory is simply just not there. Though, I recall instances of stress and great sadness very well, including instances of being bullied as far back as the first grade. I could not tell you about more than a handful of positive memories from my early childhood, or even teenage years—I can't recall a lot of what I learned in school, despite having decent grades, These issues persist and have gotten worse for me as an adult.

Edited to make things flow better.

 

[endofeverything]

Reflection.

Lot of input already, so just a recounting of how it works for me. There is a fog that rolls in at times, as trauma settled in and around. I think though, it is and was a survival insulating blanket. If something is not needed it gets dropped, not always completely forgotten but more a pine cone that was once slobbered on is put aside to watch a fish swim.

Pinprick vision keeps me functioning. An extreme focus on a single thought to drown the others for a time. It's how a slow gait took me through most heavy hits. Have moments as you have had, just forgetting too much and even the focus wanes. Like leaves in fall, the unattended thoughts pile haphazardly on the ground, and any trail is buried in life's discarded leavings, tree droppings, better than pigeons but still a mess. Honestly, at those times I try to steal time, thief I know, and just lie down in the leaves. Pick one, just one and run my senses over it as best I can. About the second or third leaf, a depression wind picks up with clouds dark and rolling fast, leaves moving as fish in the wind and I'm back up for a bit on my way.

As others have mentioned I don't think it's a lack of intelligence but rather a hefty leaf load that pulls on the steady focus of a mind with too many fears, deep veins of untouched feelings, and utter untethered drifting or an all encompassing never ending state. That there breaks a mind or at least gives it pause.

Same as all old and dieing things, perhaps it's not intelligence we lack but rather at the end of everything an ability to stack blocks, organize.

Will pad off with my slobbery pine cone till next the leaves bury the trail.

just wanted to say that i absolutely love this writing, thank you so much for blessing me with this!!​