Discussion Do you think we'll ever be free to CTB as we please ?

[GuppyBoyo]

And what kind of work will take from us to make that future happen ?

 

[MathConspiracy]

I don't think it'll ever happen. For example, it took thousands of years for women to gain basic human rights. Yes, suicide awareness is being advocated for, but that's mostly "talk to your loved ones" like pro-life propaganda. The real right-to-die movement is a marginal community.

If we wanted to make our opinions heard, we should lessen the stigma associated with dying from suicide. I personally think that someone smart enough should start synthesizing Nembutal on their own and bring back the supply. It's a pretty radical thought but it would prove to the world that death can be a peaceful experience.

 

[funtimes]

Yes I think countries are moving that way

 

[ihatemyselfwanttodi]

I don't think so. Hell, at least here in the US we're in the process of trying to go backward, not forward. Maybe they'd be nice enough to give the option to people a part of groups they don't like, but I think they'd rather bully and terrorize people than give them a peaceful exit. Either some free prison labor or wage slavery in the ol' land of the free.

 

[KillingPain267]

No

 

[Ijustcantanymore]

Nope. Not as long as capitalism exists and as long as humans are cruel monsters. Until those two things change we'll never be given access to assisted, dignified dying.

 

[Halfhourdays]

No, suicide will always be illegal.

 

[GuppyBoyo]

I don't think it'll ever happen. For example, it took thousands of years for women to gain basic human rights. Yes, suicide awareness is being advocated for, but that's mostly "talk to your loved ones" like pro-life propaganda. The real right-to-die movement is a marginal community.

If we wanted to make our opinions heard, we should lessen the stigma associated with dying from suicide. I personally think that someone smart enough should start synthesizing Nembutal on their own and bring back the supply. It's a pretty radical thought but it would prove to the world that death can be a peaceful experience.

wouldn't that create another kenneth law case ?
i think we need more organised efforts instead of one man operations

 

[Endlichkeit]

No. Because you're a property of the government, and you're perceived merely as a resource that does some useful work. It is unprofitable for the government to lose resources. If there existed an instant and painless way to die, many, who'd otherwise not, would go for it - a huge loss of resources for the government. Therefore, all means of relatively easy and painless suicide, like N or SN, will always be heavily regulated.
Even if we abolish the government system and switch to some kind of libertarianism, you'll be a property of corporations. In any form of sufficiently complex society you'll be someone's property. In a primitive society, you'll be left with only painful methods.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

No because many people want to have slaves so that they can continue to live and live their lifestyle and have the slaves produce products like food building materials etc

But there is no objective reason to live or for society to exist

Life is objectively bad because a of the constant work needed to maintain a body feeding 3 times a day etc for meaningless fleeting pleasures that are dwarfed by the worst pain

Most people have to work 15 hours per day a job and chores for no purpose. Only to exist under threat of extreme torture and to suffer regularly

These people think that life is good and or there is some purpose or meaning to life and society

Life could never have any meaning,

 

[GuppyBoyo]

No. Because you're a property of the government, and you're perceived merely as a resource that does some useful work. It is unprofitable for the government to lose resources. If there existed an instant and painless way to die, many, who'd otherwise not, would go for it - a huge loss of resources for the government. Therefore, all means of relatively easy and painless suicide, like N or SN, will always be heavily regulated.
Even if we abolish the government system and switch to some kind of libertarianism, you'll be a property of corporations. In any form of sufficiently complex society you'll be someone's property. In a primitive society, you'll be left with only painful methods.

isn't there a way that we can force them to comply perhaps ?

 

[Endlichkeit]

isn't there a way that we can force them to comply perhaps ?

Only if it is beneficial to them. As I said, I don't see how it could be.

 

[MathConspiracy]

wouldn't that create another kenneth law case ?
i think we need more organised efforts instead of one man operations

Good point, there should be a huge amout of suppliers, they can't shut them all down.

 

[FuneralCry]

I wish, to have the option to be permanently free from this cruel, torturous existence with no risks of it going wrong and leading to way worse suffering is all I hope for, I just want to never suffer ever again and I always suffer so much from how we exist in this horrific reality where suffering is seen as to force and prolong no matter what even know this existence was so tragically imposed and I'd just never wish to suffer in this existence. I never should had been burdened with this existence at all, no matter what I'll always see existence as the problem and I see so much cruelty in how I cannot just have a death like falling into an eternal dreamless sleep, I personally just hope for peace from the suffering of existing, I just wish for this dreadful, cruel existence that I always saw as a mistake to be all forgotten about, I'd just always prefer to not exist than suffer all for the sake of it just to be tortured by old age no matter what and it's so horrific to me how a human can suffer for so long.

 

[Archness]

No, it's simply impossible. Any attempt will be beaten down and sent to the psych ward.

But more problems and apathy? Yeah.
"Well you're useless, so..." "We need less useless eaters, thanks." "There's not enough to go around, thanks for your sacrifice."

Basically it's not gonna happen outside of being a side effect of the world getting alot worse (gonna happen). It's THE light at the end of the tunnel you could say.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think the world would need to change so much that it became economically beneficial to the already rich and powerful that people start killing themselves in great numbers.

I suppose that is possible though. If climate change and the quality of soil to grow crops means we can feed fewer people. As resources run out even more. As AI take over jobs, the rich, powerful rulers may need human minions far less.

I suppose the problem remains- who will buy all the crap they produce or invest in, if consumers disappear. I wonder how the future world will generate cash. If robots and computers are doing our jobs, how will we even be able to afford anything? Maybe we'll see a split if some groups of people have to return to being self sufficient- grow their own food etc. It would be king of funny if AI creates a regression to more traditional ways of living for some people.

Still, I doubt assisted suicide will ever be freely available to all. The rich and powerful likely won't want their children taking that option. That's the biggest question I think ultimately- How many family members, especially parents would be ok with their loved ones choosing suicide?

 

[GuppyBoyo]

Only if it is beneficial to them. As I said, I don't see how it could be.

maybe we can make it non-beneficial for them to continue, maybe the losses they'll experience keeping us alive will outweigh whatever they get out of it
maybe a bit of civil disobedience ? maybe something a bit more drastic ?

 

[dingokettle3531]

And what kind of work will take from us to make that future happen ?

It's not gonna happen, we don't even have proper measures against climate change

 

[ForeverCaHa]

Possibly if/when overpopulation becomes an existential threat to the human race.

Realistically though I highly doubt it would ever be freely accessible to all and sundry. I imagine there would always need to be a "reason", but then you've got the question of who gets to decide which reasons are valid and which ones aren't?

I'm not even sure if it's something I would feel comfortable having openly available to the general public (I'm aware that I am a massive hypocrite there, seeing as I would dive right into a suicide pod given half the chance). It's something I'd have to ponder more. Fortunately I'll never be in a position to give the deciding vote on a matter this serious!

 

[GuppyBoyo]

It's not gonna happen, we don't even have proper measures against climate change

but reliable access to the means of ctb isn't as hard to achieve as is fighting climate change

 

[Darkover]

I think it's highly unlikely that society will ever fully allow people to die by choice without restrictions. Governments and institutions are built around maintaining populations, both for economic and social reasons. Even in places where assisted suicide is legal, it's tightly regulated and only available to terminally ill or severely suffering individuals.

To be a fucking slave that's basically what it comes down to—being forced to endure life whether you want to or not, just to keep the system running. They don't care about individual suffering as long as the machine keeps turning.

It's messed up how people talk about "freedom" while denying the most fundamental choice—whether to exist at all. The system is built to make leaving as difficult and stigmatized as possible, so people are pressured to keep going even when life is unbearable.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I don't think it will ever happen bc human beings dread the grief they feel for loved ones to pass away.

In some more countries euthanasia might be implemented but only of those who are almost dead and have suffered for years if not decades before they're granted a peaceful relief.

 

[deleteduser853695]

Similar to what Darkover said, I don't think any government will ever allow any random person to CTB. But those who are retired or long-term unemployed or chronically disabled, I think they will allow them to, someday, and not for humane reasons. Look at this graph of net resource usage by age, from this study:



To the government, young people who are still in school are a drain on society because they haven't contributed in any material manner.

Then we go out in the world and become, by the government's metrics, net producers. We are "useful workers" for them (or at least we're supposed to be). No way the government will allow "useful workers" (or their fit, fighting-age population) to CTB, not when we're still supposed to contribute to the GDP and whatnot, and be cannon fodder in case of a draft.

But people who've outlived their usefulness in the government's eyes, or people who are not seen as net producers (whether due to disability or long-term unemployment or whatever else), I think there will come a day when at least one country decides to say the quiet part out loud (that people like me who aren't net producers [thanks, unemployment!] are a burden to society, in their eyes) and give people like me the option to CTB.

When that day comes, it will not be out of kindness or mercy for our suffering. They'll allow those who are not useful to them to die, not because they care about our pain and it's humane to let us CTB, but to get the supposed "drains on society" out of the way. They'll allow CTB as a favor to themselves, not us. Everything's a numbers game with them.

To be clear, I'm not a fan of this concept of "net producers"; it's based on a very narrow set of metrics that is essentially how much we contribute to the GDP, and is deeply flawed IMO. And I hate this concept of paying off the resources you consume. I hate this idea that we owe a debt to society.

This idea of "useful workers" is also why governments often push for STEM education, because technological advancement tends to grow GDP more than anything else. I really hate it, but it's the world we live in, where worth is a number and that number is money.

Personally though, I do hope the right to CTB is expanded, even if I don't agree with the reasoning behind it. As long as no one's getting pressured into CTB, I think expanding the right to die is the humane thing to do. The government only cares about us being on the negative side of the net resource usage graph, though.​

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

No because many people want to have slaves so that they can continue to live and live their lifestyle and have the slaves produce products like food building materials etc

But there is no objective reason to live or for society to exist

Life is objectively bad because a of the constant work needed to maintain a body feeding 3 times a day etc for meaningless fleeting pleasures that are dwarfed by the worst pain

Most people have to work 15 hours per day a job and chores for no purpose. Only to exist under threat of extreme torture and to suffer regularly

These people think that life is good and or there is some purpose or meaning to life and society

Life could never have any meaning,

It's even more evil than using people as work slaves as i posted in my post. why won't they allow someone age 81 who can't barely move and is in pain who is begging for someone to kill them , why won't they allow this suffering person to hire someone to help them achieve suicide? they are not producing anything for the system but costing the system a lot of money and want to go but they won't let them instead they say the person has to keep suffering unbearable pain .

Even very old people that need very expensive healthcare , that are in pain , in their 80's , who are begging to die to escape the pain ( i've seen this in nursing homes). even these people are denied assisted suicide. very simple in a nursing home an injection of morphine would do it but they will never allow it.

very old disabled people cannot produce anything and are a huge drain on the medical costs. yeah if they want to live they should be allowed . but i'm talking about the ones who want to die for any reason including that they are in constant unbearable pain.

we live in a very evil prison world. there are millions of people suffering extremely not just older people but younger ones too. many of these people would want assisted suicide or to be able to buy nemubutal to escape their pain. these monsters know people are suffering but they made all guaranteed suicide methods intro crimes so they are the torturers of the people suffering

they instead made all guaranteed suicide methods including hiring someone to help you with suicide crimes. this is why you can't buy nembutal online , or a sarco suicide pod , or hire someone to inject you with morphine or shoot you with a gun because they turned all these into crimes.

the elderly are putting a financial strain on many countries and birthrates have declined. but there's been no talk of this why? cause these people in government are pure evil . they don't care about logic or compassion never allowing those suffering to end their pain ever, they are just pure evil monsters. why won't they allow people who are adults or even elderly in pain to purchase nembutal or to hire someone to assist them with escaping their pain? pure evil

that they made this world a worse prison is another reason for me to kill myself asap: i wouldn't want to exist in such an evil prison world as a slave and prisoner. if you can't leave a place when you want to you're a prisoner and slave

so it would seem logical to allow anyone over age 60 who wants to pay someone to help them suicide . but no not in this evil world . and it's not about economic reasons but evil ideologies which have at their core enslavement control and other ridiculous subjective beliefs.

this further shows they will never allow us to be able to purchase nembutal or to hire someone to inject us with fentanyl or shoot us with a gun

 

[divinemistress36]

Doctors take an oath to do no harm . So no it wont ever happen

 

[Gamelle]

If birth rates continue to fall such that many countries are faced with lots of elderly straining pension and social safety nets, I could see them finally allowing euthanasia once you hit a certain age.

It's not profitable to encourage or allow suicide of young healthy people.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

If birth rates continue to fall such that many countries are faced with lots of elderly straining pension and social safety nets, I could see them finally allowing euthanasia once you hit a certain age.

It's not profitable to encourage or allow suicide of young healthy people.

this already the case . as i posted above . the elderly are putting a financial strain on many countries and birthrates have declined. but there's been no talk of this why? cause these people in government are pure evil . they don't care about logic or compassion never allowing those suffering to end their pain ever, they are just pure evil monsters. why won't they allow people who are adults or even elderly in pain to purchase nembutal or to hire someone to assist them with escaping their pain? pure evil

 

[Gamelle]

this already the case . as i posted above . the elderly are putting a financial strain on many countries and birthrates have declined. but there's been no talk of this why? cause these people in government are pure evil . they don't care about logic or compassion allowing those suffering to end their pain never they are just pure evil monsters

Because they still have immigration to offset the pain of the birth rates. It's not bad enough yet. But as birth rates continue to fall even in poorer countries, and the immigration supply dwindles, it will actually be so painful for the average citizen they won't be able to gloss over it anymore.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Because they still have immigration to offset the pain of the birth rates. It's not bad enough yet. But as birth rates continue to fall even in poorer countries, and the immigration supply dwindles, it will actually be so painful for the average citizen they won't be able to gloss over it anymore.

you are assuming these monsters care about logic or compassion all their actions prove otherwise. these gov monsters made every guaranteed suicide method into crimes even for elderly who are in pain and want to die to escape their pain that is not logical nor compassionate that is pure evil and it costs a lot to keep that person alive even if they don't want to be . yeah if someone wants to live that should be their right but if they want to die also.

put here why it's logical not to allow someone age 82 who can't barely move who is in pain and wants to die to escape their pain . put here why it's logical that these gov monsters made them unable to buy Nembutal or to hire someone to aid them with suicide ?

 

[Gamelle]

you are assuming these monsters care about logic or compassion all their actions prove otherwise. these gov monsters made every guaranteed suicide method into crimes even for elderly who are in pain and want to die to escape their pain that is not logical nor compassionate that is pure evil and it costs a lot to keep that person alive even if they don't want to be . yeah if someone wants to live that should be their right but if they want to die also.

put here why it's logical not to allow someone age 82 who can't barely move who is in pain and wants to die to escape their pain . put here why it's logical that these gov monsters made them unable to buy Nembutal or to hire someone to aid them with suicide ?

the U.S. is 37 trillion dollars in debt . that is way past any logic (i only put that here cause you seem to suggest that only when the financial problems get bad well it's way past bad already).

Ok.