Venting do you need to be ignorant in order to enjoy this life?

[_Minsk]

i tried it, several times for so many years. i have been suffering since my teenager years. still. i don't get this life, or people who say this life is precious, suicide is bad and wrong. you could die every second, by some random events. but as soon as you choose death consciously, you're weak, weak or someone who likes to inflict pain onto others. i still can't believe people like this exist, and on top of that it seems like the vast majority of humans think that way. even this makes me want to kms on its own. it just doesn't make any sense. its like 'gifting' someone a rotten apple and complaining afterwards on why you threw it into the trash. but its your fault, like they own you and you are responsible for their happiness. you haven't been asked to enter this life in the first case but you're the one to blame for, just because you didn't wanted to live in this world. ...you are just in your 'comfort zone', being lazy and complaining. man, who the hell even invented this comfort zone crap? you're the reason for millions of people who enter the burnout zone. fuck you society. if hard work would actually make you rich, why are there so many poor people on the streets? the world is ruled by egotistic ass***es who spread stupid lies and advice no one has asked for in the first place. "it was hard work", yeah and a lot of coincidence which got you to the place where you are today. maybe a few fortunate genes, not so many bullies, trauma and diseases. well done.

how can someone be happy knowing you have a 50% chance of getting cancer during your lifetime? working so hard and then either having to pay horrendous bills for chemo and rx or giving up instead? even if you beat the cancer, there is still a high risk of getting it again but this time it will be even worse. or whats about all the other pretty diseases you can be excited about? high blood pressure , Alzheimer's disease, heart disease, depression, arthritis, osteoporosis, diabetes, and stroke... sure, some of them can be avoided, but by far not all. covid is killing thousands of people just like the flu.

people say having sex is the best thing, but whats about aids and all the other ugly things you might catch? what if the condom breaks or you're just to drunk to care? why do we even have to care about all this crap, one of our most dormant instinct might lead us into painful life full of stigma, alienation and shame.. in a few decades we will have a huge problem due to the antibiotic apocalypse. the world is heavily overpopulated, nature is being abused and killed just for the sake of more money and power.. animals are being tortured.. people hate the holocaust but still consume cheap meat. most animal farms on this planet are like the holocaust, just worse and with animals who can't fight back nor speak. people complain about dogs being eaten, but whats about pigs, chicken or cow? just because they are hard to keep as pet?

how can someone not be depressed in this world?
sorry for being so pessimistic but i really don't get this life, i don't want to life in this world.. it makes me sad to see all those people blaming themselves for having to live this life and taking all this crap into their accounts..

 

[Catofsorrow]

I agree, I think that the majority of society are quite hypocritical to a large extent. For instance, schools are supposed to prepare us for the future but they are still stuck in 19th century teaching style and the things they teach and the way they teach it puts so much pressure on kids and results in high percentage of depression.

And honestly, all that talk about how life is precious... I seriously cannot believe how someone can live on this earth and still say that. Perhaps I am pessimistic but

1) millions of animals are literally killed every single day just to provide us with meat
2) everytime you kill an ant does that not count as taking a life?
3) everyone dies eventually

I seriously hate how society functions

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

"I don't think there's a motive, atleast not one that is operating at a conscious level, per-se. People in any civilization are inculcated with a set of beliefs just as members of a cult - they are raised with a rather static lens they are taught is the "correct" way to experience, perceive, and make sense of reality; this can be something as simple as "things fall down because of gravity", to "money is a very important pursuit in life", or "communism is evil". Taught repeatedly both explicitly and implicitly, one begins to lose themselves in these messages, and the differentiation between "self" and this static perception becomes very fluid - an attack on this perception, even in the form of a piece of information that creates a stark juxtaposition, triggers a fear response, much like that of an animal encountering a predator. The idea is, we may have incredibly advanced technology, but we still operate psychologically at the level of tribespeople; we become incredibly attached to cultural belief systems the same way we attach to our mothers and fathers as children, even if they abuse and berate us.

This comes to the heart of the problem, in my mind. Our cultural apparatus no longer seems to have answers for us, and the chase of money, status, materialism, et al - the hollow idolatry of late capitalism - is failing writ large to satiate our existential fears, if in large part because the system pumping it out has become so corrupt and inequitable that it is losing its legitimacy, and with it, its ability to hold us under the "civilized" spell. But even so, you have billions who have been raised to believe in its wicked fairy tale, to see and judge themselves and others through its objectifying, atomizing, reductionistic lenses, and for the most part know no other way to perceive reality. This is a large part of why "mental illnesses", suicide, and childlessness have skyrocketed and continue to - these are perhaps natural reactions to perceiving reality accurately, beyond any cultural spell.

This said, how does one continue to exist in a world that is not only rapidly changing for the worse - where an extinction crisis is looming large not so far over the horizon, where one is more likely than ever to be socially isolated, exposed to toxic levels of pollution, live in a terribly unhealthy fashion, work an unrewarding, mundane job that barely pays enough - and NOT want to kill yourself, or at the very least be chronically depressed?

Well, the answer, which also includes the answer to your question, is to double-down and become even more insane in the ways of the culture. The role of culture itself is transcendence - to deny death itself and give life a sense of permanency; culture becomes the self and the self becomes culture, but by becoming so intertwined, one becomes a part of its hypervigilant immune system. The problem is, no one really benefits from this arrangement in the long run; but in the short run, the constant denial of reality keeps one in a state of blissful, willfully ignorant cognitive dissonance. To anyone not insane in the ways of our culture, anthropogenic climate change is the Sword of Damocles hanging over life itself, making everything we need to do to sustain life in modern civilization seem absurdly Sisyphisean.

And yet, the denial of reality serves a dual purpose - it allows one to sink into learned helplessness, and it allows one to avoid the existential crises that come with awakening to the fact they are utterly codependent and individually helpless (much like an abused child who ultimately conforms to its treacherous parents' whims, once it realizes they're the hand that feeds and it has nobody else). To illustrate, right now it is estimated some 60% of the world's population lives near a coastline, with nearly 2.4 billion people living and working within 100km, and some 634 million living only 10m above sea level. The majority of these individuals live in the mega-cities that themselves are the major arteries of modern civilization. These cities are neither sustainable nor self-sufficient, and depend on a fragile global logistics chain to continue functioning.

Imagine yourself to be a decently well-off middle class resident in one of these coastal regions, or cities. You have an advanced degree and a great white collar job - let's say you're a family practice physician at a small doctor's office and although you don't save much, you do make ends meet, have an alright social life, overall things don't seem too bad. You never struggle to put food on the table, you're relatively happy with your life, more or less. You feel "successful" in the eyes of your culture because of the two letters after your name, the size of your paycheck, the fact you "own" your property and a nice car from the last 5 years. You're the envy of your less fortunate friends and peers, who are struggling in the gig economy and paying $1100 for a bunk bed in a small room; they look at you and tell you, "you've made it, man!" - its a similar admiration you experience with the opposite sex, who perk up after you mention your career. So, things seem relatively stable in your life. Economic crises seem to come and go, the world seems to be getting scarier by the day but you don't notice much - sure, groceries are always getting more expensive and the packaged goods keep shrinking, sure, you keep seeing friends from your peer group drop off the map or appear in obituaries you scroll past on Facebook, regardless more and more of them are speaking openly of their "mental health" struggles, and sure, people seem to be driving a little crazier, more of your patients are uninsured or on Medicaid, and the weather seems to be more chaotic than ever. But for the most part, you get up in the morning, get dressed and drive to work like everyone else, and although you can't dismiss this tickle in the back of your mind that something isn't quite right, your life seems rewarding enough to keep the tickle repressed. You might get a surge of anxiety now and then - or maybe that's just another pothole on the slowly degrading, neglected highway you take to work, but eventually you forget it until the next time, and the next.

The point is, if you live in any measure of comfort like the above story, belief in the status quo IS your "self", it not only enables your life, it provides you a stable sense of identity and status. To consider climate change is to collapse that lens upon itself, reveal it as a dream, an illusion, and with it, everything you have come to see as fixed and rigid and sensible about your life, every answer you've ever had to those late night existential questions that keep you up. It is to awaken to the stark reality you are a helpless cog in a massive mechanism, who operates a machine you don't understand, that runs on a fuel you can't create yourself, to work a job that is only possible because of a global logistics chain, to shop at a grocery store full of food and drink from who knows where, made by who knows who, to return to your domicile in the evening powered by who knows what from who knows where - all you know is as long as you keep your bills paid, the lights will magically turn on, the food stays cold in your fridge, and you can veg out to the latest sitcom on Netflix after a long day at work. Besides, what could you really do about rising sea levels or a splitting polar vortex, individually?

If we return to the story, imagine yourself that person again - and you've brought up similar subjects with your friends, or your professional-class colleagues, but they tell you you're being a downer, so you eventually drop it, and maybe even begin doubt it's even real or that it matters at all. "The scientists will figure it out," you tell yourself, clutching the Bible that's actually a cellphone streaming the latest climate denial or techno-hopium to your eyes, as you drift off to a dreamless sleep. Anyway, you've got work in the morning and the clocks always ticking and the bills aren't gonna pay themselves.

It's far easier to accept the one reality that is farcical and mundane and be united with your atomized peers in that, to feel the power your status and money grants you, to do the steps of the dance of "normality" - than to stand completely alone in the other reality, in which you are a dependent child in an adult's body, subsisting in a world that is not only bewildering and complex beyond your imagination, but utterly terrifying and unpredictable beneath it all. In that reality there are no answers, only the fact that there doesn't seem to be a place for you in it, and your life is virtually unimaginable without the forms of modern civilization - the grocery stores, the gas stations, cars, two day shipping, fire and police departments. Most would sooner forget that is the world that is threatened and fading than imagine living in a world without it." -Stranger from the internet

 

[TAW122]

I think yes, it does require a level of blissful ignorance, intellectual dishonesty, and lack of self-awareness coupled with delusion to reality to enjoy this life. I would rather not live in ignorant bliss, intellectual dishonesty, nor be unaware of myself while I exist. As soon as I become aware of reality, I could no longer cope the same way I did before, and never see life the same way ever again.

 

[BipolarGuy]

i tried it, several times for so many years. i have been suffering since my teenager years. still. i don't get this life, or people who say this life is precious, suicide is bad and wrong. you could die every second, by some random events. but as soon as you choose death consciously, you're weak, weak or someone who likes to inflict pain onto others. i still can't believe people like this exist, and on top of that it seems like the vast majority of humans think that way. even this makes me want to kms on its own. it just doesn't make any sense. its like giving someone a rotten apple and complaining afterwards on why you threw it into the trash. on top, you even get all the blame for inflicting all that pain onto that person and people who got attached to that rotten apple because it was a people pleaser one, but its your fault. you haven't been asked to enter this life in the first case but you're the wrong one, you are just in your 'comfort zone', being lazy and complaining. man, who the hell even invented this comfort zone crap? you're the reason for millions of people who enter the burnout zone. fuck you society. if hard work would actually make you rich, why are there so many poor people on the streets? the world is ruled by egotistic ass***es who spread stupid lies and advice no one has asked for in the first place. "it was hard work", yeah and a lot of coincidence which got you to the place where you are today. maybe a few fortunate genes, not so many bullies, trauma and diseases. well done.

how can someone be happy knowing you have a 50% chance of getting cancer during your lifetime? working so hard and then either having to pay horrendous bills for chemo and rx or giving up instead? even if you beat the cancer, there is still a high risk of getting it again but this time it will be even worse. or whats about all the other pretty diseases you can be excited about? high blood pressure , Alzheimer's disease, heart disease, depression, arthritis, osteoporosis, diabetes, and stroke... sure, some of them can be avoided, but by far not all. covid is killing thousands of people just like the flu.

people say having sex is the best thing, but whats about aids and all the other ugly things you might catch? what if the condom breaks or you're just to drunk to care? why do we even have to care about all this crap, one of our most dormant instinct might lead us into painful life full of stigma, alienation and shame.. in a few decades we will have a huge problem due to the antibiotic apocalypse. the world is heavily overpopulated, nature is being abused and killed just for the sake of more money and power.. animals are being tortured.. people hate the holocaust but still consume cheap meat. most animal farms on this planet are like the holocaust, just worse and with animals who can't fight back nor speak. people complain about dogs being eaten, but whats about pigs, chicken or cow? just because they are hard to keep as pet?

how can someone not be depressed in this world?
sorry for being so pessimistic but i really don't get this life, i don't want to life in this world.. it makes me sad to see all those people blaming themselves for having to live this life and taking all this crap into their accounts..

Given that the happiest people in this life are people who have died their skin orange, died their hair bright white, and their greatest concern is chipping their nail paint, one does realise that depression is in some sense related to intelligence.

I make a throw away remark, but that has actually been hypothesised.

 

[Deleted member 18655]

i've felt like an outsider most of my life. I was very sensitive to the problems of the world as a teenager. And things were better then, looking back.

I'm very jealous of the people who are naturally blissful of the world around them. In March, I would have given my right arm for a blue pill to just be able to switch off the noise of the world. But I have to know as much as I can and then find out even more, to my detriment. Very seriously my detriment.

I used to call myself a realist when others would scorn me as a pessimist. The truth of the world is pessimitic, though, and that is the reality I can't help but see.

And it makes me just want to shut my eyes and not see anything. Ever again.

 

[Mistake of Nature]

As Dostoyevsky wrote, "...to be overly conscious is a sickness".

You have to lie to yourself and maintain a degree of ignorance to be happy. If you're too aware of the inherent meaninglessness and suffering involved in life, it's nearly impossible to feel anything but anxiety, dread, and depression.

 

[Meaninglesslife50]

I think you can be happy and be intellectually active but it requires ignoring some facts and a truckload of wishful thinking and possibly a group of people around you who think the same.I used to be baffled at why anyone would take their life it seemed as if that they have gone crazy and unable to think and somehow less intelligent.Now that I am making the same decision I realise how your emotions can taint your reasoning despite what you think and believe to be rational.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

how can someone not be depressed in this world?
sorry for being so pessimistic but i really don't get this life, i don't want to life in this world.. it makes me sad to see all those people blaming themselves for having to live this life and taking all this crap into their accounts..

Hey, you're fine. I really don't like this world. There are so many beautiful things and wonderful people, but.... I just feel like we're cursed. Society as a whole really seems to suck everywhere. The average person is considered worthless by those who are supposed to help and protect us. Ugh. I'm kinda rambling, sorry.

 

[XYZ]

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think intelligence equals despair at the world. Many highly intelligent people work in the service of their community and try to make it better every day. I believe that gives them a feeling of satisfaction and a sense of purpose.

If I take myself as an example I can tell you that I did not feel the weight of the world when I was healthy, had a great job and a good relationship. I could see the good in this world. But now that I have lost of all that, I think a lot about my own and other people's suffering and see only darkness all around me.

I am still the person I was 25 years ago, my intelligence level has not gone up (in fact, it has probably decreased because of mental issues), but I am an antinatalist and a pessimist, which I wasn't in my youth.

I think seeing the evil in the world is not so much a matter of intelligence, but of perspective. And the perspective one has is shaped by the fortunate or unfortunate events in one's life.

 

[Meaninglesslife50]

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think intelligence equals despair at the world. Many highly intelligent people work in the service of their community and try to make it better every day. I believe that gives them a feeling of satisfaction and a sense of purpose.

If I take myself as an example I can tell you that I did not feel the weight of the world when I was healthy, had a great job and a good relationship. I could see the good in this world. But now that I have lost of all that, I think a lot about my own and other people's suffering and see only darkness all around me.

I am still the person I was 25 years ago, my intelligence level has not gone up (in fact, it has probably decreased because of mental issues), but I am an antinatalist and a pessimist, which I wasn't in my youth.

I think seeing the evil in the world is not so much a matter of intelligence, but of perspective. And the perspective one has is shaped by the fortunate or unfortunate events in one's life.

I did not say that people who are less intelligent are depressed or vice versa.I think I may have conyed my message the wrong way.I said I used to think that way and now I realize how wrong I was that fact that some people feel the way they do is not neccesarily from reason but from what they feel at that moment if I feel happy I think that I should spread it around and world is a beautiful place but when I'm depressed I think of the world as a dark gloomy place.What I mean is that we think we are rational being who most of the time do things based on logic but in reality it is not true and most of what we do and think is impaired by internal and external forces our hormone levels and if it is raining outside or not.So you can never know if what you are believing now is actually because it is true or is it because of some other factors that you have not accounted for.

 

[262653]

I only know for sure that ignorance isn't always enough. I was ignorant of life's bullshit for 8 years before I became suicidal, and those were the worst years of my life. And I was ignorant before those years, but also smart, pretty and athletic, my peers liked me and hated me because I was influential, and like XYZ said, I didn't feel the weight of the world. In the hindsight, I really enjoyed the life of the alpha.

The rotten apple metaphor is spot on.

And honestly, all that talk about how life is precious... I seriously cannot believe how someone can live on this earth and still say that.

Mantra is a one way of viewing it. I bet you don't get to hear as often phrases like "the sky is blue and the sun is bright". If it were truly precious, there would be no need for such reassuring. No one would even bother saying this, other than as a jocular response to something blatantly obvious. And maybe someone with an inquisitive mind, under a spark of curiosity, would be like, "damn my life is so good and precious, I wonder why, and how...", and then he/she plans to perform an extensive research on this topic.

 

[XYZ]

I did not say that people who are less intelligent are depressed or vice versa.I think I may have conyed my message the wrong way.I said I used to think that way and now I realize how wrong I was that fact that some people feel the way they do is not neccesarily from reason but from what they feel at that moment if I feel happy I think that I should spread it around and world is a beautiful place but when I'm depressed I think of the world as a dark gloomy place.What I mean is that we think we are rational being who most of the time do things based on logic but in reality it is not true and most of what we do and think is impaired by internal and external forces our hormone levels and if it is raining outside or not.So you can never know if what you are believing now is actually because it is true or is it because of some other factors that you have not accounted for.

My reply was an answer to the original post and the question posed in the title of the thread. I am not sure why you thought I was replying to you, since I neither tagged you nor quoted your post.

 

[Meaninglesslife50]

Oh sorry

My reply was an answer to the original post and the question posed in the title of the thread. I am not sure why you thought I was replying to you, since I neither tagged you nor quoted your post.

Sorry! My bad

 

[Meditation guide]

I seriously hate how society functions

Yes and also the natural world. As a nature and animal lover, I watched beautiful birds and other animals hunt and eat other animals and it's what began my ultimate conclusion this is a level of hell. We might have moments of joy but it's still a shit show. Not just for us but for all living things.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I've been ignorant my whole life but some of the things I did find out were still enough to push me over the edge into despair. I think there's a whole other component not being considered here.