Discussion Do animals believe in reincarnation?

[Forever Sleep]

Honestly, I can't say I believe in reincarnation. Especially not in terms of the framework of religion. I can maybe get my head around various bits of us being recycled perhaps. Physically we are of course- or would be if we let nature take it's course. As corpses, we would become carrion for scavaging animals- we'd be food effectively if we weren't preserved or destroyed before that happened.

But, in terms of a single soul learning a bunch of lessons, it just seems odd. To what end? What were we when humans didn't exist? Dinosaurs? Other animals? Aliens from another planet?

Do you suppose any animal contemplates its own death? Do you suppose any of them believe in reincarnation? Are some of them just itching to come back as something more 'developed'? What is the criteria for that? 'Well done madam- you've been a particularly good earth worm. We're pleased to tell you you've gained a promotion! You'll be reincarnated as a blackbird. Time to seek revenge on all the other earth worms that teased you.'

It's like- I suppose I can imagine a human learning a humbling lesson by coming back as an animal. But- do animals actually 'sin' in the same way humans (supposedly) do? How can an animal progess when surely, most of them are more likely blindly following their programming?

I think it was @Pluto that said a cow was considered to have progressed to a higher spiritual level somewhere. Maybe some animals do have a certain serenity to them. I doubt they were consciously aiming to reach a higher spiritual level but I suppose you can achieve something without consciously working towards it. Like honorary degrees I suppose.

I just find it kind of interesting. Like- I think as humans, we can observe animals and learn from them. We can revere certain qualities they have. I guess we'll either know or never know whether they did reach a higher spiritual plane when we die.

Personally, I lean towards atheism now and there being nothing. Still, it always puzzles me how people of most faiths reconcile certain things.

 

[Hvergelmir]

I don't think it's possible to believe in such a complicated thing as reincarnation without a developed language. It's not something you can derive from observation.
I think it's a very human and overly abstract thing; to make a distinction between body and spirit.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't think it's possible to believe in such a complicated thing as reincarnation without a developed language. It's not something you can derive from observation.
I think it's a very human and overly abstract thing; to make a distinction between body and spirit.

Yes, I agree. I think some animals behaviour suggests they have a comprehension of death and even mourn for their dead. Monkeys, whales, crows, elephants etc. exhibit signs of distress around corpses. Whether they understand that will happen to them one day though, I don't know. Asides from a natural urge to get out of the way of predators and danger.

I agree though, it's hard to imagine animals thinking about an afterlife but then- I think we do tend to underestimate other animals. I suspect animals do have their own languages although, I wonder just how complex the lessons are that they pass on. I wonder if they tell each other stories like we do.

I think we tend to 'dumb' animals down though. Maybe in part because it's too horrific to believe they are capable of thinking and feeling to the extent that we do- given what we do to them.

This is off topic but I think one of the most heartbreaking things I saw was the documentary 'Blackfish' about captive killer whales. As you can imagine, it wasn't very supportive of keeping animals like this in captivity. One of the saddest parts though was- they were saying orcas have a much higher developed part of their brain that processes emotions. That they may even communicate emotionally somehow. That their family bonds are incredibly strong. Then you have orcas being captured in the wild, brought in to effectively a bath tub to perform. They get bred and then, children are separated from the mothers. When they performed one separation, the mother whale was making sounds none of them had ever heard. They got an expert in who said she was using sound that travelled longer distances- probably trying to call out to her baby. That was so heart breaking.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Ma'am your work in the garage is waiting for you.

(jk)

 

[Hvergelmir]

I think we do tend to underestimate other animals.

We most definitely do. Scientists are very careful not to anthropomorphize other species, and something of a habit of assuming that things are false until they are proven. Intelligence and emotions are particularly to prove.

If an animal looks like it's mourning, there's not scientific basis for that to be comparable to the human experience of mourning. This is really important in order to produce high quality research. I would however argue that but more often than not, things are simply very close to what they "seem to be". Mammals in particular (including humans) are very similar, and science is continuously proving it bit, by bit.

I suspect animals do have their own languages although, I wonder just how complex the lessons are that they pass on. I wonder if they tell each other stories like we do.

I'm not an expert, but I've been curious about this for a long time.
If we look at technological and behavioral progress in other species, it seems like it's driven by observation and imitation. This is true for humans too, but we also have theoretical knowledge and abstract models (ranging from simple counting systems, to quantum physics), which haven't been seen in other species.

I have not seen any indication of a structured language in animals, and think of animal "languages" as the kind of communication humans would have if they couldn't use words. We'd be able to still express a lot, but it would be very hard to communicate theoretical concepts and details.

I wonder if brain/computer interfaces will eventually give other species the ability to vocalize human language. It would be very interesting to see exactly how advanced their language use could become.

 

[VaporSelf]

I personally believe they do not, I'm not even sure they are aware of death, they simply live in the moment. I'd say that's one big difference between animals and humans, they don't know a future, or past, just the now.

 

[Pluto]

Spoiler: Cow

I think it was @Pluto that said a cow was considered to have progressed to a higher spiritual level somewhere.

That was Lakshmi the Cow. She had a deep connection with Ramana Maharshi and they communicated effortlessly. Because she attained enlightenment, there is a proper shrine in her honour to this day. However, the belief that animals are 'inferior' is so widespread in the Western world that most people outside of India would struggle to take the story seriously.