Did you know 400 American physicians and 150 medical students die by suicide per year?

[Pure]

Suicide Among Physicians Is A Public Health Crisis

Researchers estimate we lose more than 400 doctors per year in the U.S. to suicide (an entire med school) and 150 med students yearly. We're a highly regulated profession. Doctors are tracked endlessly and publicly shamed if we veer off course in any way, and if we die by suicide, suddenly it's...

www.huffingtonpost.ca

Article I just found in r/medicalschool.

I will admit, I knew the suicide rate for American doctors was about ~1 per day but I'm quite surprised at the high numbers for medical students.

Stole this from a reddit comment: "its estimated that 400 physicians commit suicide per year. That means it takes the entire graduating class of 2-3 medical schools just to replace the physicians who die from suicide."

Is there anything that encompasses American work culture as well as this fact? Drive several hundred workers to death per year but don't stress because they will be replaced.

Image description: deans of medical schools, ceos, and hospital admin to first year medical students upon seeing this fact after checking their bank accounts



What can I say? It's very jarring to see that I'll most likely be counted among these numbers then forgotten as just another statistic and then nothing will change just as long as the right people continue making money.



Don't think I'll leave a suicide note though. I think I've exhausted that after writing so many. I just don't have it in me. I think everything I want to say has been and will be posted on SS even though I'm not planning on telling anyone irl about this place.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

Do you think there's particular sectors that have more suicides? All the drs I come across seem like they don't have a care in the world. What do you think makes drs want to croak?

Yes, medical school sounds intense. Surely they must have some quality control in regards to letting students have enough time to sleep and eat and relax a bit. I don't know- guess not. I could see students want to off themselves if they couldn't hack it academically.

I read about a vetrinarian that did it...and I hear dentists do it too. I can't imagine. I would practically kill for a well-paying highly esteemed career.

I looked at the article...I guess if it were me I would choose something like general practice, family care or IDK clinic based so I didn't have to work 100 hr weeks like they mentioned.

 

[Pure]

Do you think there's particular sectors that have more suicides? All the drs I come across seem like they don't have a care in the world.

Different specialities have different rates of suicides. Dermatology and ophthalmology tend to be the lowest.

Could be the doctors you've met are faking it though.

Yes, medical school sounds intense. Surely they must have some quality control in regards to letting students have enough time to sleep and eat and relax a bit.

They do not:

Image description: deans of medical schools, ceos, and hospital admin to first year medical students upon seeing this fact after checking their bank accounts

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

My mom worked alongside OBGYNs...she carried the same responsibilites as drs in her clinic but not a dr...they seemed pretty pleased with their careers, enjoyed vacations and retirement. I could see dermatologists as facing low stress, I went to one once...she was super relaxed...The family practice clinic I go to the drs are assholes...I know they aren't stressed. I've gone to drs for years and they all seemed ok, sure I can't just tell who is suicidal. If they just work clinic hours with periodic on call I don't see a reason their jobs as being so horrible they would want to croak. A good paycheck, respect and intellectual stimulation sound pretty good to me.

I'm not trying to argue. I believe this/you and this fact you're presenting.

What type of medicine do you plan to go into?

What profession would be better for you? If you can think of one that's tolerable and lucrative go for that. I would think factory workers...teaching....and people who do truly horrible low paying work with no benefits have very high suicides....I think what's shocking about what you present is how such an admirable career still has unhappy people. Perhaps they are already unhappy or chose a shitty sector to go into or have horrible bosses or fail at the services expected from them.

 

[YourNeighbor]

What we don't know is how many of those suicides are terminally ill doctors with the means and access to methods of exiting before they endure unbearable suffering.

 

[Pure]

My mom worked alongside OBGYNs...she carried the same responsibilites as drs in her clinic but not a dr...they seemed pretty pleased with their careers, enjoyed vacations and retirement. I could see dermatologists as facing low stress, I went to one once...she was super relaxed...The family practice clinic I go to the drs are assholes...I know they aren't stressed. I've gone to drs for years and they all seemed ok, sure I can't just tell who is suicidal. If they just work clinic hours with periodic on call I don't see a reason their jobs as being so horrible they would want to croak. A good paycheck, respect and intellectual stimulation sound pretty good to me.

I'm not trying to argue. I believe this/you and this fact you're presenting.

What type of medicine do you plan to go into?

Hmmm well I guess it's a important to recognize that some people can get shit thrown at them all their lives and still stay happy and hopeful through out. Different people have different levels of resiliency and the highest resilient ones would never act on suicide and may even look down on those who do it for not being as resilient as them. Those are typically the people who'd shake their heads upon hearing of a co-workers death and say "I guess they couldn't make it"

A big role in your social and family exists too. It's a lot easier to cope in med school and beyond if you have a strong social support. I don't as I don't have close friends, a romantic partner, nor am I close to my family so pretty much all the support I get depends on me trying to convince myself to stick around which is increasingly failing, obviously or I wouldn't be on the website hahaha

Age also plays a factor, if the obgyns you're meeting are in their 50s and 60s or older, then they're the ones who most likely enjoyed their career the most while those who couldn't cut it left years earlier.

As for me, dermatology is my interest, not even because of the laid back life style I just like learning about skin conditions and procedures. Sucks ass to be interested in it though since it's one of the most competitive specialties.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

A big role in your social and family exists too. It's a lot easier to cope in med school and beyond if you have a strong social support. I don't as I don't have close friends, a romantic partner, nor am I close to my family so pretty much all the support I get depends on me trying to convince myself to stick around which is increasingly failing, obviously or I wouldn't be on the website hahaha

It would definately be very hard to do medical school socially isolated. I'm sorry to hear it really sucks. You made good points in reply about older drs having not succumbed to failure or suicide. Dermatolgists have to do a lot of cosmetic fillers...Are you into that? Idk maybe they don't that's just my perception.

If you make it...and finish....I hope you find a really cool romantic partner...who you can enjoy nice dinners out and their company makes you feel good. It's possible. A lot more possible than if you had a shitty job.

I'm sorry if I am triggering. I am 100 percent triggered all the time...so I would hate to do that to you.

 

[toforigivelife]

Suicide Among Physicians Is A Public Health Crisis

Researchers estimate we lose more than 400 doctors per year in the U.S. to suicide (an entire med school) and 150 med students yearly. We're a highly regulated profession. Doctors are tracked endlessly and publicly shamed if we veer off course in any way, and if we die by suicide, suddenly it's...

www.huffingtonpost.ca

Article I just found in r/medicalschool.

I will admit, I knew the suicide rate for American doctors was about ~1 per day but I'm quite surprised at the high numbers for medical students.

Stole this from a reddit comment: "its estimated that 400 physicians commit suicide per year. That means it takes the entire graduating class of 2-3 medical schools just to replace the physicians who die from suicide."

Is there anything that encompasses American work culture as well as this fact? Drive several hundred workers to death per year but don't stress because they will be replaced.

Image description: deans of medical schools, ceos, and hospital admin to first year medical students upon seeing this fact after checking their bank accounts

View attachment 72548

What can I say? It's very jarring to see that I'll most likely be counted among these numbers then forgotten as just another statistic and then nothing will change just as long as the right people continue making money.

View attachment 72549

Don't think I'll leave a suicide note though. I think I've exhausted that after writing so many. I just don't have it in me. I think everything I want to say has been and will be posted on SS even though I'm not planning on telling anyone irl about this place.

I guess this just proves that depression can hit anyone.

From the guy with only a high school diploma and a few hours of community college who works two crappy jobs just to be able to feed himself and pay his rent to the star pupil who always got straight As, always made the Dean's List, got into an elite college and who seemed to have an impeccable future ahead of him.

It also shows that the ability to succeed academically does not tell you anything about a person, especially as it pertains to their emotional health or the state of their mental health.

Then add being prone to severe, suicidal depression to pressures of medical school and working as a physician to the self-doubt that comes with being in an intensely competitive atmosphere, the pressure to succeed, the pressure to be their family's pride and joy and the awesome responsibility that medical professionals are faced with - I guess that would make for a pretty tough mix of circumstances.

And last but certainly not least; doctors and medical students also have working knowledge of how the body works and how to shut it down and that they have access the most effective drugs that a person would need to catch the bus both efficiently and painlessly.

Having access to really effective drugs is probably comes in handy to suicidal veterinarians as well.

 

[peacefulhorizons]

yet 99% of them are so militantly pro-life...

 

[The Lonely]

Along with Veterinaries…

 

[toforigivelife]

yet 99% of them are so militantly pro-life...

Speaking as an American, I've heard that one of the worst places to die is in an American hospital.

"Yes, both your eyes are missing, you have no arms or legs, you have burns all over what's left of your body and you're now paralyzed from the neck down but I saved your life. You're welcome."

I thought the first tenet of the Hippocratic Oath was, "Alleviate suffering."

Here the first tenet of the Hippocratic Oath seems to be, "Your heart WILL keep beating, your lungs WILL continue to function! 'Quality of life?'....I've never heard that phrase before. They never taught us that in med school."

 

[Pure]

Speaking as an American, I've heard that one of the worst places to die is in an American hospital.

"Yes, both your eyes are missing, you have no arms or legs, you have burns all over what's left of your body and you're now paralyzed from the neck down but I saved your life. You're welcome."

I thought the first tenet of the Hippocratic Oath was, "Alleviate suffering."

Here the first tenet of the Hippocratic Oath seems to be, "Your heart WILL keep beating, your lungs WILL continue to function! 'Quality of life?'....I've never heard that phrase before. They never taught us that in med school."

Phsyicans are supposed to save life no matter the quality of state the patient is in. It's up to patient's advanced directive or their family and friends to decide if the phsyicans should stop life sustaining measures if the patient cannot communicate.

What can I say? It's very jarring to see that I'll most likely be counted among these numbers then forgotten as just another statistic and then nothing will change just as long as the right people continue making money.

Okay I wanted to make this joke in the original post but I imagine there was a lot of effort by those doctors to have legible handwriting.
.....
I'll see myself out.

 

[toforigivelife]

Phsyicans are supposed to save life no matter the quality of state the patient is in. It's up to patient's advanced directive or their family and friends to decide if the phsyicans should stop life sustaining measures if the patient cannot communicate.

I guess expecting a doctor to decide who lives and who dies is a lot to ask for.

There are, however, a lot of patients who were unable to speak for themselves who I feel very sorry for.

 

[Pure]

I guess expecting a doctor to decide who lives and who dies is a lot to ask for.

There are, however, a lot of patients who were unable to speak for themselves who I feel very sorry for.

Yep, it's far easier to keep the goal of the phsycian to save life unless explicitly told by the patient.

It's why I don't support physician assisted suicide or euthanasia. Physicians have a role in palliative care without being the one to deal the final death in blow.

Also, this is why it's important to make an advanced directive. You can request for one at any primary care appointment at any age. You specify the type of care you wish to receive in the event you cannot communicate and delegate someone to be your proxy. It's completely legally binding and doctors must follow it for the most part.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

Also, this is why it's important to make an advanced directive. You can request for one at any primary care appointment at any age. You specify the type of care you wish to receive in the event you cannot communicate and delegate someone to be your proxy. It's completely legally binding and doctors must follow it for the most part.

Is this like a form/piece of paper they will give me? My grandma had this on her fridge. Won't the clinic think it's fucking unusual that I am asking for this? They are aware of my bad living situation.

 

[peacefulhorizons]

Yep, it's far easier to keep the goal of the phsycian to save life unless explicitly told by the patient.

It's why I don't support physician assisted suicide or euthanasia. Physicians have a role in palliative care without being the one to deal the final death in blow.

Also, this is why it's important to make an advanced directive. You can request for one at any primary care appointment at any age. You specify the type of care you wish to receive in the event you cannot communicate and delegate someone to be your proxy. It's completely legally binding and doctors must follow it for the most part.

lol you have a real unpopular opinion around here....

who is supposed to prescribe assisted suicide drugs or do you not believe in assisted suicide/euthanasia at all? pharmacists? hospital housekeeping staff? dentists? keyboard warrior barbiturate enthusiasts like me?

 

[Pure]

lol you have a real unpopular opinion around here....

who is supposed to prescribe assisted suicide drugs or do you not believe in assisted suicide/euthanasia at all? pharmacists? hospital housekeeping staff? dentists? keyboard warrior barbiturate enthusiasts like me?

I support decriminalizing suicide, I just don't think doctors should be the ones to administer life ending drugs as it goes against the whole purpose of being a doctor.

By euthanasia I mean doctors doing euthanasia.

Exit international has non physician volunteers in their staff I believe for their euthanasia.

I think ideally the law would permit established non physician volunteers to be able to obtain nembutal legally to either administer to the patient or allow them to do it themselves. Moreover I do support voluntary withdrawal of food and water for palliative patients which is an option. Keeps their death in their control and they can stop any time they want to. Doctors can administer medication to make the process not painful and the use of ice chips is enough to alleviate thirst without unraveling the process.

Is this like a form/piece of paper they will give me? My grandma had this on her fridge. Won't the clinic think it's fucking unusual that I am asking for this? They are aware of my bad living situation.

It's pretty much a medical will. I mean, it is a bit strange if you're not elderly or not have a chronic medical condition however, it's available for anyone over 18 and everyone should have one.

For example, a college student in Chicago was recently shot on the subway by accident and became a quadriplegic and needed machines to breathe. When he regained consciousness, the doctors communicated with him by him blinking at letters shown to him. He said that he wanted to be taken off of life support and he was. Had he not regained consciousness, his parents would have been in control of his medical decisions and they could have decided that he should stay alive then the doctors would have kept him alive. An advanced directive would have not permitted his parents to keep him alive if he didn't regain consciousness.

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

It's pretty much a medical will. I mean, it is a bit strange if you're not elderly or not have a chronic medical condition however, it's available for anyone over 18 and everyone should have one.

Do you think I could go to a further away clinic and just ask for the form? Not be a patient there?

 

[Pure]

Do you think I could go to a further away clinic and just ask for the form? Not be a patient there?

The form is also online. https://www.freewill.com/advance-healthcare-directive is one such place

 

[Seiba]

I knew doctors had a pretty high suicide rate but not the exact number.

 

[everydayiloveyou]

It makes sense to me that such a high-pressure career path has so many suicides. I was an honors student nearly my whole life. The kinds of kids who went to med school were either normal and reallyyy ambitious, psychopathically vain and power-hungry, or sensitive over-achievers.

Idk how the sensitive types can last through med school, the environment seems structured to break down the spirit of people like that. I understand that it's necessary to have high standards so that we don't churn out shitty doctors, but when you have people who genuinely want to help others and do science next to the people who are fueled by the glory of the profession, it's a recipe for disaster. The people doing it for the less earnest reasons end up getting most of the residencies because they're the only ones who could survive it. They then go and neglect anaesthesia patients, do predatory procedures on people with BDD, shill procedures and meds that don't work... all because it'll make them more cash and more respectable. After all that's why they became a doctor in the first place.

I'm not sure why "do no harm" doesn't apply when those toxic students partake in bringing down and sabotaging their classmates and coworkers. The world is better off without physicians like that. I think if those kinds of personalities could get weeded out somewhere along the line, there wouldn't be so much pressure for the more sensitive students studying medicine to bottle up. Plus more understanding from attendings and professors since they'll be the ones who make it, etc...

Thennn there's the sunk costs of being in school so long and having no other transferrable skills, cold and ruthless families who swear they won't love you unless you can do this amazing job, peers looking down on you for being too weak to make it ... I can see why medicine has more suicides than other similarly high-pressure majors like finance and law.

 

[StevieNixs]

Suicide Among Physicians Is A Public Health Crisis

Researchers estimate we lose more than 400 doctors per year in the U.S. to suicide (an entire med school) and 150 med students yearly. We're a highly regulated profession. Doctors are tracked endlessly and publicly shamed if we veer off course in any way, and if we die by suicide, suddenly it's...

www.huffingtonpost.ca

Article I just found in r/medicalschool.

I will admit, I knew the suicide rate for American doctors was about ~1 per day but I'm quite surprised at the high numbers for medical students.

Stole this from a reddit comment: "its estimated that 400 physicians commit suicide per year. That means it takes the entire graduating class of 2-3 medical schools just to replace the physicians who die from suicide."

Is there anything that encompasses American work culture as well as this fact? Drive several hundred workers to death per year but don't stress because they will be replaced.

Image description: deans of medical schools, ceos, and hospital admin to first year medical students upon seeing this fact after checking their bank accounts

View attachment 72548

What can I say? It's very jarring to see that I'll most likely be counted among these numbers then forgotten as just another statistic and then nothing will change just as long as the right people continue making money.

View attachment 72549

Don't think I'll leave a suicide note though. I think I've exhausted that after writing so many. I just don't have it in me. I think everything I want to say has been and will be posted on SS even though I'm not planning on telling anyone irl about this place.

I knew it was high - it is also supposed to be high for psychiatrists,

Psychiatrists have the highest suicide rate of any profession. It’s time to do something about it.

Mental health is more than a medical issue. It’s a social issue.

medium.com

So they have a bit of a cheek trying to discourage other people from doing what they are often thinking about doing themselves. Suicide rates are also supposed to be high for vets and dentists.

 

[deflationary]

I support decriminalizing suicide, I just don't think doctors should be the ones to administer life ending drugs as it goes against the whole purpose of being a doctor.

Why wouldn't we simply rephrase the purpose of being a doctor to "do what's best for the patient"? Seems like some weird form of essentialist thinking. A doctor would still be a doctor if they did all the things they currently do plus also administering life-ending drugs.

Not that I'd really care who exactly was administering the drugs to me as long as they got the job done.

 

[Life sucks]

Medicine and related fields (nursing, biology, etc) can cause mental illnesses because of the nature of the studies (diseases, blood, etc). There are many students who are very uncomfortable with it but decide to continue because of pressure (societal, economical, etc) which causes a wide range of mental illnesses later. There are things like Medical students syndrome and more.

It's a psychologically traumatizing experience and people should be more aware about it.

 

[FuneralCry]

I knew it was common in people with high pressure occupations, as it can often push people over the edge, dealing with constant pressure. I know it is high in vets as they have access to N and I have heard a lot about that.

 

[Pure]

I knew it was common in people with high pressure occupations, as it can often push people over the edge, dealing with constant pressure. I know it is high in vets as they have access to N and I have heard a lot about that.

Anasthesiologists are in the same situation for this reason