Discussion Did the WTC jumpers 'kill themselves'?

[nigelhernandez]

One thing I always bring up to people who think suicide is selfish is the case of the people who jumped from the twin towers on 9/11. Some say it wasn't suicide and they were just choosing the least painful option. That's also an analogy used for suicide. That it isn't a choice but life's problems as a fire and us on the edge. Pro-lifers want us to burn while we want to jump.

So getting back to my question, did they kill themselves and did they go to hell according to Christians?

 

[Lunarhour]

They jumped to survive. We jump to die, therefore we are murderers and murderers go to hell according to the christians.

 

[Jumper Geo]

I watched a documentary on a jumper it was the famous one on the front page of all the newspapers globally anyway they were trying to trace him and they thought they had identified him and approached the family, the family didn't want to talk and said there is no way he would commit suicide they were gutted even in them circumstances long story short they identified the wrong man and did identify the correct one.

If HELL does exist please tell me why all these priests, link below, committed these unforgivable SINS, food for thought, lol

YouTube

Дивіться відео, слухайте улюблену музику, завантажуйте оригінальний вміст і діліться всім цим із друзями, рідними й цілим світом на YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Cheers

Geo

 

[Lunarhour]

If HELL does exist please tell me why all these priests, link below, committed these unforgivable SINS, food for thought, lol

YouTube

Дивіться відео, слухайте улюблену музику, завантажуйте оригінальний вміст і діліться всім цим із друзями, рідними й цілим світом на YouTube.

www.youtube.com

How does a bad priest prove that hell doesn't exist? I don't get it...

 

[Mud.]

In all official coroner reports, their deaths are labeled as 'Murder', not suicide.

 

[Jumper Geo]

How does a bad priest prove that hell doesn't exist? I don't get it...

For starters when people commit suicide they refuse to give them a service and bury them because they committed suicide, priests are Gods representatives on earth that's why they baptise babies into the faith, marry people and when your dying they absolve you of your sins (Last Rites) and when you have done something wrong you go to church and confession and they give you a penance to complete to resolve all your sins and they are represented by the pope.

 

[Aap]

I think you may be conflating multiple issues. In a literal sense, yes they did jump out of the burning windows. They were put in a position where they had to choose between a more or less painful method of death. It is highly likely that none of them would had jumped that day had the towers not been hit.

What does religion have to do with it (setting aside the religion of the individuals who choose to murder so many people)? I think you are assuming beliefs that are not universally held.

 

[Tintypographer]

I think the 911 towers were a severe case of death mediated by a position that was physical. If I wanted to live and had to choose between burning to death or jumping I wouldn't want either choice but might pick the jump in the moment after saying my prayers at that moment.

As a suicidal ideator I am not faced with burning to death or some other horrible fate.

I also know as I search the stance on suicide and the idea that suicide victimes go straight to hell and are not buried in standard burials is quite outdated in the Catholic Church at least as they have begun to recognize the depth of despair for mental illness.

 

[EndItQuickly]

How does a bad priest prove that hell doesn't exist? I don't get it...

I think they're pointing out that all religion is created by fallible humans and therefore it's all fabricated bs created by people looking for power or comfort.

 

[Jumper Geo]

I think they're pointing out that all religion is created by fallible humans and therefore it's all fabricated bs created by people looking for power or comfort.

Yes Priests and the Pope represent God on Earth so if they commit evil sickening, vile sins why should we worry about topping ourselves.

 

[Aap]

The majority of people on earth do not agree with your first premise.

 

[omoidarui]

didn't some of them try to make parachutes out of sheets

 

[Jumper Geo]

This is click bait OP don't even come back with any questions or answers I won't reply in future.

 

[Aap]

Shocked...shocked is the only word to described how shocked I am this wasn't a legitimate question.

 

[raindrops]

In all official coroner reports, their deaths are labeled as 'Murder', not suicide.

Technically it is murder. With no other way out they were basically forced to jump, so it would be the terrorists fault in theory.

 

[Taraxias]

Technically it is murder. With no other way out they were basically forced to jump, so it would be the terrorists fault in theory.

And you have an illness that doesnt kill you but does not let you do anything even shower or peeing or going to the market or just using everything that makes some sound tobtrgger major pain and tinnitus and discomfotness.even the sound of a spoon hitting a plate sounds like a gun shot, do everything in the house with earplugs and earmuffs and even with those on to not be able to go outside because sound is to much and make you worse and worse.which makes you not able to do anything at all ,arent you forced to end this when there is no other way to be cured? Isnt this a type of mutder as you state it?

 

[raindrops]

And you have an illness that doesnt kill you but does not let you do anything even shower or peeing or going to the market or just using everything thay makes some sound which makes you not able to do anything at all ,arent you forced to end this when there is no other way to be cured? Isnt this a type of mutder as you state it?

Urm... I believe in the peaceful pill handbook. I don't get what you're saying?
I'm just saying these people in the WTC didn't want to die that day, they went to work and wanted to go home...
They had no other choice but to jump or be burnt alive or squashed by steel and concrete or I dunno.
I'd rather take my chances and jump before any of that though. Imo it is murder because they didn't want to die.

 

[plough22]

Fire smoke intense heat coming at you. You'll do anything to get away front that , anything.

 

[Taraxias]

Urm... I believe in the peaceful pill handbook. I don't get what you're saying?
I'm just saying these people in the WTC didn't want to die that day, they went to work and wanted to go home...
They had no other choice but to jump or be burnt alive or squashed by steel and concrete or I dunno.
I'd rather take my chances and jump before any of that though. Imo it is murder because they didn't want to die.

I am describing you my illness. And i also didnt want to die i had a beautiful life as lots of them did. I am forced by this incurable illness to make the jump because staying is like being in fire hell every day as they were forced to make the jumb to avoid the fire hell. So as you state they have been murdered so i am being murdered too

 

[raindrops]

I am describing you my illness. And i also didnt want to die i had a beautiful life as lots of them did. I am forced by this incurable illness to make the jump because staying is like being in fire hell every day as they were forced to make the jumb to avoid the fire hell. So as you state they have been murdered so i am being murdered too

I'm sorry you're in pain, sending you hugs.
the only pain I understand is heartache and I feel like I'll never heal from this, it's not the same I know, it mentally drains you though!
I do think there's a difference in taking your own life and being murdered by terrorists.

 

[Isittimetogonola]

No matter what my situation is now, I would have jumped to avoid being burned alive. For me, that is one of my greatest fears. They were only left with 2 choices with the same outcome. I feel it was murder.

 

[AcornUnderground]

I am describing you my illness. And i also didnt want to die i had a beautiful life as lots of them did. I am forced by this incurable illness to make the jump because staying is like being in fire hell every day as they were forced to make the jumb to avoid the fire hell. So as you state they have been murdered so i am being murdered too

I feel your pain and often feel the same analogy of the jumpers on 9/11. They jumped, but had no choice. I understand when physical pain is as bad as that burning building. We are trapped in the building and have to jump. It's a choiceless choice. In many ways, I feel murdered too.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Depends on what was going on in their head.

In some cases, the people surely clung to the hope of surviving the fall in those seconds before jumping, and then I would not call it a suicide.
More a desperate attempt of escaping.
*escaping the fire, not life, that is, and that is the difference

 

[SpottedPanda]

I wouldn't call it suicide. For one, the jumpers may have been holding onto the idea that they may somehow survive the fall. They'd have been so full of stress chemicals and anxiety to calculate correctly. They were definitely murdered, as the actions leading up to their jump gave them no other clear option.

As for going to hell, unless God's a computer, I'm sure he'd make a compassionate decision, based on the circumstances.

 

[Ktenacious007]

Idk what Christian told you suicide equals hell but my pastor says it doesn't count as murder since your mind is not right if you come to that point

 

[Krash1990]

One thing I always bring up to people who think suicide is selfish is the case of the people who jumped from the twin towers on 9/11. Some say it wasn't suicide and they were just choosing the least painful option. That's also an analogy used for suicide. That it isn't a choice but life's problems as a fire and us on the edge. Pro-lifers want us to burn while we want to jump.

So getting back to my question, did they kill themselves and did they go to hell according to Christians?

Nowhere does the Bible say suicide gets you in hell.
There is only one unforgivable sin and that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

[SpottedPanda]

Nowhere does the Bible say suicide gets you in hell.
There is only one unforgivable sin and that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

What if you did it because you were mentally ill?

 

[Krash1990]

What if you did it because you were mentally ill?

It doesn't matter why you do it. The Bible's only rule for salvation is to accept the gift of forgiveness that God gave us through Jesus.

 

[SpottedPanda]

It doesn't matter why you do it. The Bible's only rule for salvation is to accept the gift of forgiveness that God gave us through Jesus.

So you could do it and ask for forgiveness?

 

[Krash1990]

So you could do it and ask for forgiveness?

The Bible specifically says that Jesus died for all of our sins past, present, and future.