Desire for CTB - maybe this is part of natural selection?

[Alan James]

It seems that people with bad genes (like me) are likely programmed from birth to suffering and wanting to CTB. This is part of the biological program which is millions of years old, just part of natural selection, there is nothing abnormal and it can not be cured. No one should consider himself a coward, weak or selfish if he does not want to live because there is no fault in you - this is biology, the problem is in our bodies, these are processes and programs that we cann't control in any way. The program tries to erase bad genes from the population, to prevent both the suffering of people with bad genetics and the suffering of their probable offspring, protects humanity as a species from degeneration and extinction. But this society and the governments, because of their thirst for money and power, have violated the system of natural selection, but in this case artificial selection, birth control, euthanasia and eugenics are necessary for the survival of humanity as a biological species, turned people into slaves and a resource, a replacement for mechanisms and robots. That is, euthanasia is what is necessary, it is logical from a scientific point of view, it is humane and there is nothing bad in it. How is it even possible that our own life and our own body do not even belong to us and we do not have the right to dispose of them?

 

[spanishguy22]

I believe in the theory that evolution isn't perfect, and that stress is an unbalanced mechanism which in too many quantities wrecks havoc to the body in so many different ways, which are dependent on individual genetics.
I got unlucky enough to suffer a lot through my teens so im fucked

 

[toolateforme]

Some people consider it Darwinism if you CTB. I guess they're not completely wrong. I wouldn't want to pass my genes onto anyone.

 

[Alan James]

I believe in the theory that evolution isn't perfect

Evolution is like a computer program - it is ruthless, does not feel feelings, it is like the logic of a machine. For evolution, we are all just a consumption material, a resource and for it we are no different from tomatoes, potatoes or dogs. Fuck the nature, she is fundamentally unfair and overly cruel. I would dream to live in such historical times when it would be possible to load your consciousness (or memory or what is necessary there) into artificial cybernetic bodies, then humanity as a species could get rid of the cruel slavery of biology and nature.

 

[spanishguy22]

Evolution is like a computer program - it is ruthless, does not feel feelings, it is like the logic of a machine. For evolution, we are all just a consumption material, a resource and for it we are no different from tomatoes, potatoes or dogs. Fuck the nature, she is fundamentally unfair and overly cruel. I would dream to live in such historical times when it would be possible to load your consciousness (or memory or what is necessary there) into artificial cybernetic bodies, then humanity as a species could get rid of the cruel slavery of biology and nature.

Absolutely. It's the source of all pain and suffering. It creates monsters than prey on the weak. It's the source of all injustice.
As much as I hate evil human beings, nature is the true enemy that creates them. That creates illness. Pain.

Without nature there's no suffering. Nothing. Only calm. Fuck nature.

 

[Xaphous]

That as well as I think if the system was fairer and not an enslavement and we weren't forced into it and didn't have a tyrannical government everyone's life would be better.

 

[Alan James]

I cann't even imagine what a bliss and pleasure it is to have an artificial augmented body without pain, defects and all these disgusting sensations. No more eating, sleeping, going to the toilet. You can choose any gender, weight and height, abilities and characteristics. Download information to the brain as a hard disk, have a completely different level of cognitive abilities. And I understand that the artificial body also provides incredible opportunities for control and surveillance, but it is worth it, we are now already slaves and do not belong to ourselves. I feel endless longing and hopelessness when I think about it, I want to die so much that I can think of nothing more than this.

For example: This is prototype of 3D printed eye prothesis for humans, "EYE, a 3d bioprinted sight augmentation".

MHOX EYE

mhoxdesign.com

This eye augmentations may possibly restore sight to some blind, has wi-fi, display as a monitor right in your eye, night vision, different filters.

"EYE HEAL replaces standard eye functionality, providing a cure to sight deseases and traumas.
EYE ENHANCE sharpens sight up to 15/10, thanks to its hyper-retina. Moreover, the included visual gland allows the opportunity to aesthetically filter the visual signal. Filters (vintage, black and white, ...) can be activated or changed swallowing EYE pills.
EYE ADVANCE, on top of the other models' offer, provides the ability to record and share the visual experience, thanks to the included gland that supports wi-fi communication. Once activated the wi-fi mode through the EYE connection pill it is possible to connect the EYE like an external camera for several devices."

"The installation of the EYE augmentations needs a first surgical operation aimed at installing the Deck, the technology that actually connects the eye to the brain. After that, augmented eyes can be easily interchanged by their own users without the need of additional surgery. Besides allowing to use different augmentations in different contexts, this system is suitable for easy hardware upgrade.

All EYE models are 3d bioprinted. 3D bioprinting technologies allow biodesigners to directly print fully functional organ and organisms.
The printer use a special needle that drops different kind of cells needed to recreate the different tissues of the EYE. These cells are contained in a special substance called bio-ink and the printer can switch between different bio-inks to recreate differentiation of tissues. Once the cells are dropped they automatically gather together. Thus, EYEs are completely organic."

But this only the concept, project - science cann't create such eyes yet.

 

[DeathSaves]

Most humans grew addicted to the idea of being better than others; i think that even if most labour was somehow taken over by robots, humanity would still be around, with most humans kept as pets by the rich and powerful. I fail to understand why mistreating others is so important, but oh well, i'm just a stupid person.

I'm not sure we're talking about natural selection anymore, btw; i think we're talking about anthropomorphic selection. Human nature has become more relevant than nature's own nature, and the fact that humans were selected to become a bunch of furless monkeys or humonkeys proves that humanity itself is bound to fail at any given second, if left unattended.

Oh deities out there, may apocalypse come soon. I'm soon to kill myself, anyhow.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

If it were true that the process of natural selection lead you to suicide then it would make me wonder a few things. What was it about your genes that were inherently weaker? Because if everything in the universe were a zero-sum game then what decided you had to be the loser? It doesn't make sense to me. My appendix may be proof that evolution produces things that don't have a purpose. But it still has a specific form and place inside my body. How did it get that way? As useless as my appendix may be... I still have it. It also produced you after billions of years. How could nothingness determine that? It doesn't make sense at all. I think there is something about these ideas that could not be true. I'm also not convinced you can blame your genes for committing suicide. It would seem that you had a choice.

 

[bugfriendly]

incorrect. Our negative experiences, unhealthy/abusive relationships and trauma etc are what causes us to suffer. Nature vs Nurture. Majority, if not all, of the people I have met who have depression, anxiety, bipolar, borderline, PTSD, etc all experience it because of their experiences. You aren't born wanting to die. We are a product of our environment. It's up to chance.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

incorrect. Our negative experiences, unhealthy/abusive relationships and trauma etc are what causes us to suffer. Nature vs Nurture. Majority, if not all, of the people I have met who have depression, anxiety, bipolar, borderline, PTSD, etc all experience it because of their experiences. You aren't born wanting to die. We are a product of our environment. It's up to chance.

So you are saying it's not because of our nature (our genes). It was because of environmental forces. Well shit. I have the same questions for you. How did an environment that sprang from nothingness determine you were a loser? It's a zero-sum game. Nothingness can't make those kinds of decisions. You also have not convinced me that how we are nurtured leads to suicide. It would also seem you have a choice.

 

[Alan James]

How did an environment that sprang from nothingness determine you were a loser? It's a zero-sum game. Nothingness can't make those kinds of decisions.

Parents or other ancestors had bad genes - bad genes were passed on to their children. Therefore, I am a loser because society allows everyone to have children, anyone with unhealthy genes can freely bear as many children as possible. Because governments need slaves (even the sick), they are pumping out money from everyone and have learned to use even the disabled.

I'm also not convinced you can blame your genes for committing suicide. It would seem that you had a choice.

Being genetically inferior and therefore not wanting to live is logical and reasonable. It is also possible to have genetic diseases (physical and mental) and not have disabilities and therefore have no money - in this case, you can die from hunger and poverty, and then CTB is a way to avoid it. You can die from many genetic diseases - in this case there is no choice.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

Well shit. That honestly sounds like a clusterfuck. I'm sorry this is your experience.

You know... you may not understand this at first. I was looking at old photos the other day. I was feeling nostalgic about them because they had meaning to me. They were photos of people who are no longer in my life. It made me wonder... Where am I keeping this thing at that I'm calling "meaning"?

Is it in the photos somewhere? Is it stored in specific neurons of my brain? Is it stored in the chemical emotions that gave me the weird warm and hurtful feelings near my heart? Is it somehow in anyone of these words I'm writing? It's funny how I can examine so many parts of something and I still cannot find a single thing that satisfies my one label for the word "meaning". Why is that?

It makes me wonder. Where are these things at you say you are seeing that made you determine you are a loser? You've chosen one word to label yourself and you are convinced it exists and it somehow has meaning. Why can't I see the same thing you see?

 

[Wanderer_with_Death]

Well shit. That honestly sounds like a clusterfuck. I'm sorry this is your experience.

You know... you may not understand this at first. I was looking at old photos the other day. I was feeling nostalgic about them because they had meaning to me. They were photos of people who are no longer in my life. It made me wonder... Where am I keeping this thing at that I'm calling "meaning"?

Is it in the photos somewhere? Is it stored in specific neurons of my brain? Is it stored in the chemical emotions that gave me the weird warm and hurtful feelings near my heart? Is it somehow in anyone of these words I'm writing? It's funny how I can examine so many parts of something and I still cannot find a single thing that satisfies my one label for the word "meaning". Why is that?

It makes me wonder. Where are these things at you say you are seeing that made you determine you are a loser? You've chosen one word to label yourself and you are convinced it exists and it somehow has meaning. Why can't I see the same thing you see?

(IMO)
Meaning is a matter of perception, this corporal form and existence gives us the unique ability of "free will" in the sense that subjection is its strongest folly.
Yes there are "defining rules" that everyone is inherent to, such as "solid physical" notion of a body and the objects around us. But in terms of the inner workings, what some may label as the "spirit/soul/self/mind" its a more abstract.

In short, meaning is your own subjective perception, if you give meaning to a person in the photographs you were looking at today, you have just as much power and perception to ensure those people can also mean nothing. Meaning like any word or label is on the grounds of subjective opinion, what I consider meaning may differ from yours and that is the beauty, and "curse" of this existence.
We're brought into this world with confining societal "standards" and at some point we're left to our own devices wandering on trying to find a "point" or "reason" for existing. There are many who claim they have the answers, there are many branches of labels that claim as well, from religion to the lack there of, to scientific analogy, even philosophical.

We're gifted with the ability to "create our reality" but with no knowledge on how to fully intune that. If there is no meaning then there won't be, but if there is, then there is.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

Weird game we're playing. Isn't it? We're staring at things that are inherently empty. Yet our minds somehow create a whole reality that can be changed by a simple shift in opinion. I'm curious how the universe gave @Alan James his opinions about the world. I had to do some serious studying and go through some serious contemplation before I created mine. It's like he's saying his genes and the environment he was raised in simply handed him his worldview. How unfair is that!? I had to work for mine.

 

[Wanderer_with_Death]

Weird game we're playing. Isn't it? We're staring at things that are inherently empty. Yet our minds somehow create a whole reality that can be changed by a simple shift in opinion. I'm curious how the universe gave @Alan James his opinions about the world. I had to do some serious studying and go through some serious contemplation before I created mine. It's like he's saying his genes and the environment he was raised in simply handed him his worldview. How unfair is that!? I had to work for mine.

Weird game indeed, the universe in my belief is abundant and its a matter of what abundance you are able to tap into, environment, past experience, external factors can easily give sway and negative association in those opinions, but I don't like to assume only Alan James can fully disclose his reasoning.

I personally believe we're here to grow, and suffering is needed most of the time in order to achieve that, but suffering is easy to "justify" being a victim and giving a vice to many feeling helpless and hopeless to the circumstance. I don't believe there is "nothing" since everything including what resides within us all is "energy" and among everything around us being the same. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but moved, so with that principal, it can lead to an opportunity to "move that energy" to be in a more positive favor.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

Weird game indeed, the universe in my belief is abundant and its a matter of what abundance you are able to tap into, environment, past experience, external factors can easily give sway and negative association in those opinions, but I don't like to assume only Alan James can fully disclose his reasoning.

I personally believe we're here to grow, and suffering is needed most of the time in order to achieve that, but suffering is easy to "justify" being a victim and giving a vice to many feeling helpless and hopeless to the circumstance. I don't believe there is "nothing" since everything including what resides within us all is "energy" and among everything around us being the same. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but moved, so with that principal, it can lead to an opportunity to "move that energy" to be in a more positive favor.

Yeah. I guess I've never seen a "nothing" either. Only something-ness. I'm curious now what @Alan James thinks. How do I know if he's like me? It sounds like he's a robot. I wish I were more like a robot. It would make decision making easier. I'm always stuck with all these confusing choices. Suicide could just be something I'm doing because it's happening to me. I could finally relax! Instead I have to debate whether I should or not. I've got to choose when and how. It's not easy. Damn. I wish I were a robot sometimes. It's not the world I live in I guess.

 

[Wanderer_with_Death]

Yeah. I guess I've never seen a "nothing" either. Only something-ness. I'm curious now what @Alan James thinks. How do I know if he's like me? It sounds like he's a robot. I wish I were more like a robot. It would make decision making easier. I'm always stuck with all these confusing choices. Suicide could just be something I'm doing because it's happening to me. I could finally relax! Instead I have to debate whether I should or not. I've got to choose when and how. It's not easy. Damn. I wish I were a robot sometimes. It's not the world I live in I guess.

A robot probably wouldn't "self terminate" so easily. A life holds more than a machine, you have memories, perceptions, experiences and the survival instinct. Whatever those mean to you is up to you, but one thing I do want to share with you that has been rather interesting.
Emotions are needed to make a decision.

I can't find the source but there was a man who suffered brain damage from an accident who lost ability to feel emotions. He is completely dependant on those around him, he can't even make a decision to pick a pencil or a pen. So before you try and condemn your "humanity" just know that you'd be more of a slave from those around you because of it.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

A robot probably wouldn't "self terminate" so easily. A life holds more than a machine, you have memories, perceptions, experiences and the survival instinct. Whatever those mean to you is up to you, but one thing I do want to share with you that has been rather interesting.
Emotions are needed to make a decision.

I can't find the source but there was a man who suffered brain damage from an accident who lost ability to feel emotions. He is completely dependant on those around him, he can't even make a decision to pick a pencil or a pen. So before you try and condemn your "humanity" just know that you'd be more of a slave around those around you because of it.

There was a guy who had virtually no brain that still somehow lead a normal life. Kind of the opposite situation. Kind of weird. I'd link the article but I'm feeling lazy.

What did you mean by condemning humanity? I hope nobody thinks I am condemning anyone. I'm literally not. I'm just asking real questions. After all, how could you possibly condemn a robot?

 

[Umbra]

Your body has no mechanism to know whether or not your genes are "bad" and essentially force you to desite to ctb. It'd be much more efficient than the millions of years to see even the smallest change, but there's simply no way your body could tell what genes are good or bad. Something similar though is that it's possible your genes are less up to society's standards, which leads to a poorer life, which leads to depression and eventually for some suicide.

 

[Wanderer_with_Death]

There was a guy who had virtually no brain that still somehow lead a normal life. Kind of the opposite situation. Kind of weird. I'd link the article but I'm feeling lazy.

What did you mean by condeming humanity? I hope nobody thinks I am condemning anyone. I'm literally not. I'm just asking real questions. After all, how could you possibly condemn a robot?

Ah it seemed like you were admiring being a "robot" which usually when anyone states such a thing leads to them condemning emotions when it comes to making "decisions". I was merely sharing how emotions seem to play a defining factor in decisions rather than "logic." I meant no offense or to imply you were condemning anyone.

The brain is very weird indeed, it named itself afterall, and gave the notion how its the "most important" organ of the corporial form. The more we're learning about the brain the less things seem to make sense, it's fascinating.

As for condemning a robot, humans can "bond" with any "object", I'm sure if a robot "harmed" in anyway someone could condemn one. I mean, people condemn others for far more petty things.

You are asking questions and its great to talk and ramble with you since you seem to be of a like mind/soul, you're stimulating and I do enjoy speaking with you.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

Ah it seemed like you were admiring being a "robot" which usually when anyone states such a thing leads to them condemning emotions when it comes to making "decisions". I was merely sharing how emotions seem to play a defining factor in decisions rather than "logic." I meant no offense or to imply you were condemning anyone.

The brain is very weird indeed, it named itself afterall, and gave the notion how its the "most important" organ of the corporial form. The more we're learning about the brain the less things seem to make sense, it's fascinating.

As for condemning a robot, humans can "bond" with any "object", I'm sure if a robot "harmed" in anyway someone could condemn one. I mean, people condemn others for far more petty things.

You are asking questions and its great to talk and ramble with you since you seem to be of a like mind/soul, you're stimulating and I do enjoy speaking with you.

I think it's possible @Alan James is not a robot. Hopefully I haven't hurt his feelings. All I'm saying is he may not be like me. He might not make choices like I do. How could I ever know? After all, it seems like he is saying he is a robot.

 

[Wanderer_with_Death]

I think it's possible @Alan James is not a robot. Hopefully I haven't hurt his feelings. All I'm saying is he may not be like me. He might not make choices like I do. How could I ever know? After all, it seems like he is saying he is a robot.

It's kind of you to care about Alan James, and I'm sure you can "start a conversation" with him to ask him those very things. My rule of thumb is, if you have a disagreement/problem/question regarding someone, its always best to ask them directly rather than assume.
It's always best to have personal matters more private, but that is just my personal consideration.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

It's kind of you to care about Alan James, and I'm sure you can "start a conversation" with him to ask him those very things. My rule of thumb is, if you have a disagreement/problem/question regarding someone, its always best to ask them directly rather than assume.
It's always best to have personal matters more private, but that is just my personal consideration.

Yeah. I guess you could do that. We're all different. What is it you are saying would qualify as personal? I guess I'm missing how that would relate to what be we're actually talking about.

 

[Wanderer_with_Death]

Yeah. I guess you could do that. We're all different. What is it you are saying would qualify as personal? I guess I'm missing how that would relate to what be we're actually talking about.

Ah, I was just sharing my own consideration, I wasn't trying to project or insinuate that what you and I personally are talking about warrant "too personal."
Like you, I'm rambling as well.

 

[Alan James]

Yeah. I guess I've never seen a "nothing" either. Only something-ness. I'm curious now what @Alan James thinks. How do I know if he's like me? It sounds like he's a robot.

Yes, I always felt like some kind of technical mechanism, a drone or a biorobot. A drone of meat and bones, and consciousness is like software, information. Perhaps this is due to strong depersonalization and personality splitting. My body is perceived by me as a device for interacting with the environment, something that could be hypothetically changed and something that I cann't choose - it is perceived as some kind of fundamental injustice when some are born with good genes, bodies and abilities, while others not. Such an experience gives a clear experimental understanding that all people are not equal from birth and all their main characteristics and abilities are determined by genes that can not be changed. And if someone gets a faulty body with bad genes, then this just is how to use a faulty car that cann't be fixed or changed, it gives the feeling that you are not free from birth and are trapped, the feeling that life itself is a kind of slavery and we, as slaves, are not given the opportunity to escape through CTB.

Your body has no mechanism to know whether or not your genes are "bad" and essentially force you to desite to ctb. It'd be much more efficient than the millions of years to see even the smallest change, but there's simply no way your body could tell what genes are good or bad.

For example, I had strong myopia from birth, it was transmitted from my parents through genes, as they also had severe myopia. It gave a very clear understanding that it does not depend on me and my actions and that these genes are definitely "bad" because I opened my eyes every day and saw the world around me very badly, and my head ached from it too. When I was 18, I had an eye surgery - it gave the feeling that theoretically it would be possible to change other body characteristics with the help of technology, that someday in the future it will be possible and this is the only way out.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

Yes, I always felt like some kind of technical mechanism, a drone or a biorobot. A drone of meat and bones, and consciousness is like software, information. Perhaps this is due to strong depersonalization and personality splitting. My body is perceived by me as a device for interacting with the environment, something that could be hypothetically changed and something that I cann't choose - it is perceived as some kind of fundamental injustice when some are born with good genes, bodies and abilities, while others not. Such an experience gives a clear experimental understanding that all people are not equal from birth and all their main characteristics and abilities are determined by genes that can not be changed. And if someone gets a faulty body with bad genes, then this just is how to use a faulty car that cann't be fixed or changed, it gives the feeling that you are not free from birth and are trapped, the feeling that life itself is a kind of slavery and we, as slaves, are not given the opportunity to escape through CTB.

I think I know what you mean. What does a robot feel like? That's an interesting description. It sounds like you've thought quite a bit about these things. Do you think you might have learned to view yourself as a machine by reading something somewhere? I have bipolar and I think I do know what it's like to feel as if a certain part of you is outside of my control. I was a little bit manic yesterday and I stayed awake until 2 am. I didn't sleep as well as I usually slept. It makes me feel a little funny throughout the day because I'm sleep deprived. I still seem to have control over what I'm doing though. I think it's seems more like I'm playing a poker game. I have certain cards I'm dealt every day which I have no control over. But I still have to choose how I'm going to play my cards. If I could just "let go" and let the game play itself I would. I wouldn't have anxiety or worry over my performance. Unfortunately, if I give up my control over choosing how to play the game I'm more likely to lose. How do you think we came to play a game like this? I know I didn't make it.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

What difference does it makes ?

 

[JadedGray]

It could be (a way of weeding out the ones who aren't seen as "useful" for society). I believe some people are born with a propensity to depression and suicide. We're like antelopes in a world full of lions.

 

[joshe]

It seems that people with bad genes (like me) are likely programmed from birth to suffering and wanting to CTB.

And yet your SI betrays you every step of the way