Venting "Depression is Treatable"

[symphony]

Even years into unsuccessful treatment after unsuccessful treatment this is literally all I hear. All anyone ever wants to talk about is how the majority of people respond to antidepressants! And therapy is even more effective! And failing that, the majority of people respond to ECT!

Yeah, okay, and that's great. If someone has depression and is encouraged by those stats and gets help and recovers, I will always celebrate that. But like, what about the rest of us? Do we just not exist? I've just about never seen anyone honestly acknowledge that some people maybe just don't or can't recover from depression. It's only implicitly acknowledged by phrasing these statements as "the majority of people recover" vs "all people recover". Even in the context of treatment resistant depression, the discussion is always centered around treatments that are really super effective and great and innovative - not the reality of life for people who try treatment after treatment after treatment and at the end of it all are left suffering all the same but with a less hope and less money.

There's no talk about the people who just get left behind. I guess at some point it's not worth bothering. We're a lost cause to just about everyone except perhaps TRD researchers. Beyond that? I've had multiple mental health professionals tell me in one way or another that they don't know what to do with me anymore, my options left are pretty bottom of the barrel. I just get told to keep going to therapy, they throw more meds at me, even sometimes recommend I try ECT a second time. Like there's some implication that if I've done everything they've recommended and still not gotten better, it must be my fault, I should just get over myself and suck it up and live through the pain.

But it gets better, depression is treatable, hope is just a phone call away~

 

[Someone123]

The way the system treats depression is by prescribing antidepressants that don't work for most people, and which have permanent side effects like ringing in the ears, plus hospitalizations, electric shock treatments, and most importantly by maximizing profit by keeping people sick and billing their insurance companies for all that they can get. There are some good therapists, but they are few and far between. The solutions to depression are building a network of family, friends, and a relationship with people who care about you, plus having a good financial situation and dealing with physical health problems successfully.

 

[HappyForever?]

I think there are two kinds of depression. One is caused by brain chemistry and is curable with therapy and medication. The other is caused by unfavorable life circumstances, and cannot be cured by conventional means. The only cure is to solve the underlying problem.

 

[Someone123]

I think there are two kinds of depression. One is caused by brain chemistry and is curable with therapy and medication. The other is caused by unfavorable life circumstances, and cannot be cured by conventional means. The only cure is to solve the underlying problem.

I do disagree. If you ask doctors to show proof of a chemical imbalance, they never can. Why does a chemical imbalance suddenly show up when a oerson gets a divorce, loses their thier job and has financial problems, etc. I personally don't believe in the chemical imbalance theory at all, but everyo0ne is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[lostmyacc]

I think there are two kinds of depression. One is caused by brain chemistry and is curable with therapy and medication. The other is caused by unfavorable life circumstances, and cannot be cured by conventional means. The only cure is to solve the underlying problem.

This is true. The life event type of depression you call is actually called reactive depression in medical circles.
The reactive depression is usually static due to the events of life not being able to change, horrendous loss of identity, loss of a love one, situations out of control etc.
This usually can't be fixed just overtime people learn to deal with the pain better, often it's still overwhelming to point of suicide though.

 

[Someone123]

This is true. The life event type of depression you call is actually called reactive depression in medical circles.
The reactive depression is usually static due to the events of life not being able to change, horrendous loss of identity, loss of a love one, situations out of control etc.
This usually can't be fixed just overtime people learn to deal with the pain better, often it's still overwhelming to point of suicide though.

Most of these situations can be fixed if the therapist knows what they are doing, coaching them on how to conect with others, and coaching them on how to fix their finances, and on steps to help with their physical health- especially these situations can be fixed when a person is young enough to have time to do this.

 

[Rational man]

Thankyou, NICE words. I would add that people need support from many sources. There has been terrible failings here in UK, in part due to government NHS cuts Appalling cases of people ctb because o f basic funding and help. If governments agree with your words i hope they fund appropriate ways to save people rather than sponsoring missiles to kill people...what do you think!?

 

[Someone123]

Thankyou, NICE words. I would add that people need support from many sources. There has been terrible failings here in UK, in part due to government NHS cuts Appalling cases of people ctb because o f basic funding and help. If governments agree with your words i hope they fund appropriate ways to save people rather than sponsoring missiles to kill people...what do you think!?

I'm glad you agree, I hope there will be a more commonsense approach to treat depression like this over time, at least by some people. But right now so much of the system is set up to endlessly prescribe mediications that almsot never work. We can hope change will come, but for now people need to find ways to resolve these problems on their own. ACtually, in my case, I've gotten too old to solve these issues, there isn't enojgh time, but I am hoping people who are younger can learn from what I have learned and get themselves on the right rack when they are younger.

 

[Deleted Member 4048]

Most of these situations can be fixed if the therapist knows what they are doing, coaching them on how to conect with others, and coaching them on how to fix their finances, and on steps to help with their physical health- especially these situations can be fixed when a person is young enough to have time to do this.

That would be true. However, from my experiences as well as Internet stories it's not so much about fixing the person's problems, but getting the person (patient) to be honest with themselves and come to their own solutions and problems. This is why therapy has been ineffective for various people whose problems is life itself. They don't have a solution besides to keep doing the same things that don't help and somehow the onus is on the patient to get better or the patient isn't doing well. It's an infuriating cycle of "help" (or rather I might as well call it harm).

Perhaps a social worker might be a bit more open to coaching them on life problems a bit more, but more/less they still fall into a similar pattern.

 

[symphony]

I think there are two kinds of depression. One is caused by brain chemistry and is curable with therapy and medication. The other is caused by unfavorable life circumstances, and cannot be cured by conventional means. The only cure is to solve the underlying problem.

I do disagree. If you ask doctors to show proof of a chemical imbalance, they never can. Why does a chemical imbalance suddenly show up when a oerson gets a divorce, loses their thier job and has financial problems, etc. I personally don't believe in the chemical imbalance theory at all, but everyo0ne is entitled to their own opinion.

That would be true. However, from my experiences as well as Internet stories it's not so much about fixing the person's problems, but getting the person (patient) to be honest with themselves and come to their own solutions and problems. This is why therapy has been ineffective for various people whose problems is life itself. They don't have a solution besides to keep doing the same things that don't help and somehow the onus is on the patient to get better or the patient isn't doing well. It's an infuriating cycle of "help" (or rather I might as well call it harm).

Perhaps a social worker might be a bit more open to coaching them on life problems a bit more, but more/less they still fall into a similar pattern.

I wish I could say I'm depressed because of x, y, and z. "I'm depressed because I have unfavorable life circumstances", and so forth. I was chugging along, doing fine and living a great life, things were trending towards the better even - and then I quickly found myself with depression and it never left since. I like to believe that there's something physically wrong with my brain somehow that's causing me to be mentally ill, but even if that's the case, that doesn't automatically mean doctors know how to address it.

Regardless, my core frustration is in mental health professionals constantly promising hope, there's always more hope, and they never deliver. Well, at least for me they don't. Reputable studies show they often do. I've met others in treatment who have recovered. But for some reason, I can't. Even though by all measures, I should be able to, right? Others are doing it and professionals say I ought to. But, nothing.

 

[Ligottian]

My late mother suffered from depression most of her life. She was in the hospital and the doctor wanted giver her ECT until he was told she had a blocked carotid artery in her neck and the shock might break loose a blood clot. He became noticeably cooler to her after this. Apparently ECT is very lucrative for doctors.

About forty years previously, her father had taken it. It did not help him at all, only damaged his memory.

 

[Someone123]

However, from my experiences as well as Internet stories it's not so much about fixing the person's problems, but getting the person (patient) to be honest with themselves and come to their own solutions and problems

know in my situation this wouldn't have worked when I neewded help most. WHat I needed was to sit down with the therapist and list the main people in my life and key ways they have helped or harmed me, and to list others in my life who may have offered help and who might helkp me. TO list things and figure things out. Through a processs of working together to dissect my social network we should have concluded together that my parents cared some but not enoujgh, and that they were very abusive and that this wouldn't change unless they would agree to group therapy, which they never did, and that my aunts were the best available reesource in my life, and some of my couins could hewl also. ALso0 certain peopel who are thought were frineds weren't and I needed to replace them with real friends. So building a social network tree together and dissecting behaviors and things that have been said and done should be done to help identify thos who would help and those I needed to be away from as soon as poissible., I couldn't get to this conclusino on my own at the time in any efficin et way, but a smart therapist could have helped me come to some of these conclusions a lot more quickly by helping to dissect people in my social network. I disagree in the strongest possible way that a patinet shojld figure their problems out themselves, someone with better social understanding should help. It's like asking a person to operate on themselves.

 

[Deleted Member 4048]

know in my situation this wouldn't have worked when I neewded help most. WHat I needed was to sit down with the therapist and list the main people in my life and key ways they have helped or harmed me, and to list others in my life who may have offered help and who might helkp me. TO list things and figure things out. Through a processs of working together to dissect my social network we should have concluded together that my parents cared some but not enoujgh, and that they were very abusive and that this wouldn't change unless they would agree to group therapy, which they never did, and that my aunts were the best available reesource in my life, and some of my couins could hewl also. ALso0 certain peopel who are thought were frineds weren't and I needed to replace them with real friends. So building a social network tree together and dissecting behaviors and things that have been said and done should be done to help identify thos who would help and those I needed to be away from as soon as poissible., I couldn't get to this conclusino on my own at the time in any efficin et way, but a smart therapist could have helped me come to some of these conclusions a lot more quickly by helping to dissect people in my social network. I disagree in the strongest possible way that a patinet shojld figure their problems out themselves, someone with better social understanding should help. It's like asking a person to operate on themselves.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and yes I will say that having a good social network of friends and family who actually care is a helpful resource.

As for what most therapists does, I'm no way agreeing with them but simply saying that that's what they do by putting the onus onto the patient to improve. Personally, I don't find therapy to be helpful for my circumstances as they don't address the root causes of my suffering nor fix the things around us. When life itself is the problem, there is almost nothing that can help aside from the sweet release of death to permanently make all the problems in life (life itself) begone. I don't know if my verbiage is ambiguous or unclear.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Antidepressants can "improve "your brain chemistry but, in my case, it just gave me more energy to continue making bad decisions which ultimately fucked me over. They created a sense of superficial well-being allowing me to ignore deeper problems that would ultimately catch up to me. Depression might be treatable but a lifetime of bad decisions is an entirely different problem. And if you're completely lost, therapy and medication can't help you very much

 

[FuneralCry]

I understand why you would be so frustrated. I'm sorry that you suffer so much. It is horrible how so many things can go wrong in this life. Living really is so painful and tiring.

 

[Deleted member 31858]

Antidepressants can "improve "your brain chemistry but, in my case, it just gave me more energy to continue making bad decisions which ultimately fucked me over. They created a sense of superficial well-being allowing me to ignore deeper problems that would ultimately catch up to me. Depression might be treatable but a lifetime of bad decisions is an entirely different problem. And if you're completely lost, therapy and medication can't help you very much

The story of my life...

 

[CursedSoul]

personnally taking really strong anti depressants, it doesn't do me shit, i mean, except not being able to nut for alot of the time. So yeah, more problems than solutions. i always lived with depression, and i don't know the feeling of happiness, love, and the pleasures of life. All i know is a disturbing fascination and obsession with death. The only time i ever felt glimpses of content was being with an """apparently""" loving partner, who then abused me, and my current gf is about to leave me. absolutely great. So yeah, i now understand that i'm not worthy of happiness, not worthy of anything except pain, such is the curse of living my friend. One day we will all escape, it's just a matter of time.

And depression is treatable, hahaha, this is funny, it's like saying we have a cure for cancer, i mean sure, we actually got some solutions, but do they work most of the time ? not really, depends on the person. Same stuff here, except i even believe in my opinion, that there is less chances of winning depression, then surviving cancer. Us that can't beat this parasite in our brains are either cast out because we are useless for modern society, we have nothing to give. Or it's either because they don't want other depressive people to hear about the other side, our side, where a shit ton of people never did, and will beat this sickness. As a depressed mind might always go towards the negative, saying depression is close to uncurable, would make depressed people say it's not worth it, so they naturally say "oh but you know, it's all gonna be finnnne, we got meds, therapy, it's the 21th century, you got a roof, family, etc... and many other escuses. Why would they say the truth ?

they win more by """fixing""" you, and doing their jobs then telling you the reality of things.

What a sad world we live in.

 

[Someone123]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and yes I will say that having a good social network of friends and family who actually care is a helpful resource.

As for what most therapists does, I'm no way agreeing with them but simply saying that that's what they do by putting the onus onto the patient to improve. Personally, I don't find therapy to be helpful for my circumstances as they don't address the root causes of my suffering nor fix the things around us. When life itself is the problem, there is almost nothing that can help aside from the sweet release of death to permanently make all the problems in life (life itself) begone. I don't know if my verbiage is ambiguous or unclear.

Yes. that's a shame, therapy is usually ineffective because teh therapists often don't even try to help a person figure out their situation, it's all wrong the lame way it is often done. Therapists should in a methodical way help a person break down their situtaion in relation to rleationships with other (family, friends, and dating), in relation to money and career, and in relation to phsycial health, and help them figure out togetehr what steps could be taken t help. The lazy approach to therapy that is done by so many, putting it on the patinet to solve their own problems, is very ineffective, but it has one big benefit- it allows the thera post to bil the patinet over a long period of time for tiny improvements until they give up.

 

[london3]

In terms of drugs and therapy there are always people who fall through the cracks. Ignoring the situation and just handing out drugs seem to be the norm for doctors in the UK.

In the UK it is very time consuming to get any sort of therapy without a long waiting list many months if not a year. When multiple medicines do not work you are told to change your life or even told you are not serious in solving your issues. Having this judgement pointed at you is easy for doctors where they can just say they have tried but if you are not trying your best then the issue is with your motivation and not the effectiveness of medicines or therapy.

Then comes the realisation for some people in our situation that we have to ultimately make the choice to ctb as no matter how many drugs we have tried or how many therapy sessions we have had absolutely nothing has worked.

It really is a terrible situation and put huge stress on our already stressed mind.

You can try and try to solve the underlying problems but it is almost impossible to change the outside world as you have no control of how the outside people behave towards you.

So yeah that is the issue now where most people are stuck in limbo hoping the situation improves when ultimately it will not.

Good luck to everyone and i hope your therapy or medicine does work, for everyone else you have to decide what you want to do.

 

[ConstantPain]

I've always thought depression is a terminal illness for those of us who don't respond to treatment (the majority). Even if something helps for awhile, depression is still right under the surface and keeps coming back. The only thing that has helped me medication wise is tramadol and doctors don't want to prescribe it anymore. My health insurance covers myself and another person but comes out of my paycheck at the cost of $1200.00/mo! Tried going to a counselor a couple months ago and had a $90 copay so there's no way I'm going back. I also know that there are lots of people who don't even have insurance and can't pay $90. So the medical field claims "recovery" is possible but has made itself unavailable to a lot of people that need it.

 

[NotHuman]

"Treatment-resistant" depression is nothing more than a way to salvage what doesn't actually work from refutation tantamount to exorcism-resistant demons, bloodletting-resistant body humours, or snake oil-resistant cancers. The reason that these depressions treatments "work" is because it's relatively rare for a person to be so trapped in life that they will stay miserable. For most people, change is constant - new opportunities, new relationships, new victories - leading to significant change in mood, outlook, and productivity that can be conveniently attributed to lengthy drug and therapy regimens.

However, some people are just too disabled and broken for anything to change, so they stay miserable and thus untreatable. For any culture the dominant just-so narrative may be preserved simply by blaming the individuals for failing to respond to their perfect treatment. Thus, antidepressants, therapy, ECT, etc. can never fail, they can only be failed.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

check this video:

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

I spent decades in therapy and on unantidepressants but never dealt with fundamental issues…

 

[outrider567]

The way the system treats depression is by prescribing antidepressants that don't work for most people, and which have permanent side effects like ringing in the ears, plus hospitalizations, electric shock treatments, and most importantly by maximizing profit by keeping people sick and billing their insurance companies for all that they can get. There are some good therapists, but they are few and far between. The solutions to depression are building a network of family, friends, and a relationship with people who care about you, plus having a good financial situation and dealing with physical health problems successfully.

Yeah, my cousin got Tinnitus from so many anti-depressants last 20 years after her husband left her for someone else

 

[Eternal🌈Rainbow]

check this video:

Thank you for posting this video, I didn't know this man and his stance on this and I liked it

 

[Ethereal Knight]

Thank you for posting this video, I didn't know this man and his stance on this and I liked it

I'm glad you liked it! here's another very good one:

 

[Eternal🌈Rainbow]

I'm glad you liked it! here's another very good one:

Well thank you very much again!! I loved this video too. He makes such great points, I can see he has good understanding on this, at least way better and much more than the vast majority of them. He also radiates very caring and compassionate energy, and for me that's the most important trait when you are in a position to provide care and help for people who are suffering, sometimes even more than the academic knowledge that is achieved in university. Really, just watching him and listening to him gave me peace and comfort.
If only all psychiatrists and psychotherapists were like him, I sincerely believe the suicide rates would be lower, an issue they say to worry very much about, but don't do anything actually helpful to solve.

 

[KlMeNw]

I do disagree. If you ask doctors to show proof of a chemical imbalance, they never can. Why does a chemical imbalance suddenly show up when a oerson gets a divorce, loses their thier job and has financial problems, etc. I personally don't believe in the chemical imbalance theory at all, but everyo0ne is entitled to their own opinion.

You are wrong, the brain is infinately complex and because of the crapshoot of genetics a person can be born with any number of physical abnormalities, but everyone is born with a perfect brain?? Your argument is close to pure ignorance.

 

[Someone123]

You are wrong, the brain is infinately complex and because of the crapshoot of genetics a person can be born with any number of physical abnormalities, but everyone is born with a perfect brain?? Your argument is close to pure ignorance.

People usually become depressed because of finacial problems, relationship problems with other people- family, friends, or a partner, or physical health problems. Then psychiatrists often say- you are depressed due to a chemical imbalance in your brain and pills will solve the problem. If you're depressed because you are about to be homeless and you just lost your job and you girlfriend the depression is caused by there things- not a chemicial imbalance- and the depression won't be cured by pills. If someone gave this person a job and some money so that they were finacially stable and they got another girlfriend then they would be better. Most people say antidepressants don't help them, some people say they do help. But the cause of depression is not a chemiical imbalance, it's the other type of issues I already listed. Especially becaiuse they neever had a chemical imbalance that caused depression before- did they suddenly get a chemical imbalance because they lost their job and their wife and the chemical imbalance caused the depression? No. They are depressed because they lost their job and their wife, not because suddenly a chemical imbalance appeared out of nowhere.

 

[KlMeNw]

You are supposing it's one or the other, it can be both life circumstances and chemical imbalance. Are all cases of depression chemical imbalances? No, but there are many instances of chemical imbalances, especially in cases of TRD (treatment resistant depression) that life's tragic circumstances have been mitigated or the patient has no underlying external problems and they are still extremely depressed. To think that it's not possible for the brain to be able to malfunction on a genetic level is ridiculous.

Edit: Also to clarify as to why people can have no depression at one point in there life and then have it at another. You may carry depressive prone genes that lay dormant until they are triggered by chemical changes in your body, ie... puberty among other things. Similar to how someone can carry cancer prone genetics, they aren't born with cancer but at some point they will likely get cancer.