Venting Debate is pointless

[DynamicDepression]

You can't argue with stupid. You can't argue with crazy. And most of all, you can't argue with malicious. Pro-lifers are all of these things and they're the ones who rule the world, oppressing suicidal people and making sure we suffer as much as humanly possible. Then they will go on to call you selfish for not wanting to be tortured.

I'm writing this coming off an argument on Reddit (I know) and I'm so pissed off with these vile fuckers. They really think that forcing people to suffer is a good thing and then will deny that they torture people by forcing them to suffer. The cognitive dissonance is so thick I can't even see my own cornea. To the surprise of no one, the person I was debating turned out to be a born-again Christian with a thousand children who were taken away from them because of abuse.

Sorry about the rant, I'm just so very sick and tired of fighting for my right to bodily autonomy when the world at large has a fetish for inflicting pain on vulnerable people.

 

[betternever2havbeen]

@DynamicDepression anno yeh before I found this place I'd be getting into all kinds of discussions (arguments) with people on other forums and it was making me feel more suicidal ironically. Now I can just come here and much happier for it. It's a waste of time, they will never know what it's like to be us.

 

[castler]

Most pro-lifers have the same opinion. Life has its bumps (speed bumps), ""eventually"" the road your on will smooth back out... I mean, don't end urself now if there is a possibility whatever kink is in your knot can be smoothed out if its a mental issue. but if it's more physical ailment - They assume you'll just go buy whatever implement is needed to continue living even if it means living in a wheelchair, having no independence for yourself. They make me sick.

 

[MelancholyMagic]

I agree that it is pointless. I used to debate with people online about the right to die and other related topics. It was a continually frustrating experience, and I didn't seem to be getting anywhere worthwhile. Most people debate online (and probably in real life too) for entertainment value and not to have their opinions changed.
I now try to avoid debating with people.

 

[DynamicDepression]

@DynamicDepression anno yeh before I found this place I'd be getting into all kinds of discussions (arguments) with people on other forums and it was making me feel more suicidal ironically. Now I can just come here and much happier for it. It's a waste of time, they will never know what it's like to be us.

I do know that I'm only hurting myself by arguing with these people, but the fact remains that they are the ones in control of us. If it wasn't for the pro-lifers, everyone would have the choice of dying peacefully and with dignity with the help of practicing professionals. Instead, we have to hide and go by violent methods. It hurts so very much to live in a world where hurting others is glorified.

Most pro-lifers have the same opinion. Life has its bumps (speed bumps), ""eventually"" the road your on will smooth back out... I mean, don't end urself now if there is a possibility whatever kink is in your knot can be smoothed out if its a mental issue. but if it's more physical ailment - They assume you'll just go buy whatever implement is needed to continue living even if it means living in a wheelchair, having no independence for yourself. They make me sick.

The debate I just had was triggered by the pro-lifer saying SUICIDE IS A PERMANENT SOLUTION TO A TEMPORARY PROBLEM in all caps and getting praised for it. I'm so very tired of this circlejerk.

I will have to disagree with you on the issue of mental ailments, though. Just because they are not visible does not make them any less painful than physical ailments nor do they necessarily have to be any easier to fix than physical ones. For example, I'm suffering from autism and nothing can change that. While therapy and coping mechanisms can help, they are equivalent to the wheelchair in your example. They help, but they don't solve anything.

 

[FuneralCry]

It is best to avoid pro lifers, pro life really is just pro suffering, they are delusional, and it is unlikely they would ever be able to see the truth unless they became suicidal themselves. There is nothing actually wrong with suicide, it is a human right and wanting to die can be perfectly rational in a world like this. Life is just suffering for the sake of it anyway, and it is cruel expecting someone to endure life against their wishes until old age. Most pro life arguments make little sense and do not reflect the reality of this existence. I agree that a debate would be pointless.

 

[deformedface]

people are quick to shut down things they see as different or weak. humanity is not nice towards people who are different. cruel world

 

[betternever2havbeen]

I can only imagine they have no concept of real suffering, otherwise why wouldn't they want the option themselves if they were in unbearable pain? I guess most people don't think of "what ifs" and assume they'll deal with it at the time and even then it still won't be enough to make them CTB.

The debate I just had was triggered by the pro-lifer saying SUICIDE IS A PERMANENT SOLUTION TO A TEMPORARY PROBLEM in all caps and getting praised for it. I'm so very tired of this circlejerk.

I absolutely hate that platitude, along with "life is what you make it" makes me wanna scream! How do they know what problems anyone has and how temporary they are? I can understand if the person is in high school or has a shitty job and that's the reason because those things are changeable in time, but anything else nope they don't know shit about reasons people want to CTB. I view all of my reasons as very permanent, they aren't gonna change one year or ten years from now except to get worse (such as getting older/losing what little family I have left/planet going to shit) who came up with that stupid bs saying.

 

[Smart No More]

You can't argue with stupid. You can't argue with crazy. And most of all, you can't argue with malicious. Pro-lifers are all of these things and they're the ones who rule the world, oppressing suicidal people and making sure we suffer as much as humanly possible. Then they will go on to call you selfish for not wanting to be tortured.

I'm writing this coming off an argument on Reddit (I know) and I'm so pissed off with these vile fuckers. They really think that forcing people to suffer is a good thing and then will deny that they torture people by forcing them to suffer. The cognitive dissonance is so thick I can't even see my own cornea. To the surprise of no one, the person I was debating turned out to be a born-again Christian with a thousand children who were taken away from them because of abuse.

Sorry about the rant, I'm just so very sick and tired of fighting for my right to bodily autonomy when the world at large has a fetish for inflicting pain on vulnerable people.

Whole heartedly agree with your sentiments re the futility of debating with stupid, crazy and malicious! I don't think I'd tar all pro-lifers with that brush though as I think many (or at least some) of them are just confused, ill advised or naive. With the naive ones they'll probably eventually follow their thoughts through to the logical conclusion that prolonging untreatable suffering is cruel. Some people just need to live a bit to find their way to reaching that understanding (and others) . On their way there they tend to make mistakes much like a teenager making their way to adulthood. (and adults making their way to genuine maturity and perhaps enlightenment).

Honestly I can't say I think debate is pointless. That's a bit too defeatist for me. I think it's actually a matter of picking our battles. Obviously, I appreciate that's hard online because we have no idea who we're dealing with so developing the ability to break off as soon as it becomes obvious you're dealing with people fitting the demographic of ignorant, stupid, crazy or evil is beneficial. Though challenging when caught up by the heat of argument but if we fall into that frame of mind we're already no use to our cause as our judgment and clarity of mind is compromised to some extent.

So yeah, pick your battles, don't argue with your heart and breakaway from any debate that isn't mutually aimed toward reaching truth (rather than aimed at winning the argument for the sake of it regardless of whether one is correct or not).

Is that really haughty? Feela a bit haughty. Think I have a tendency come off a bit preachy. My sincere apology!

 

[Lost Magic]

They won't be long turning pro-choice (suicide not just abortion) if they end up with a terminal illness or having their lives altered for the worst. They are quick to judge but if the tables were to be turned it would be a different story.

 

[DynamicDepression]

Whole heartedly agree with your sentiments re thw futility of debating with stupid, crazy and malicious! I don't think I'd tar all pro-lifers with that brush though as I think many (or at least some) of them are just confused, ill advised or naive. With the naive ones they'll probably eventually follow their thoughts through to the logical conclusion that prolonging untreatable suffering is cruel. Some people just need to live a bit to find their way to reaching that understanding (and others) . On their way there they tend to make mistakes much like a teenager making their way to adulthood. (and adults making their way to genuine maturity and perhaps enlightenment).

Honestly I can't say I think debate is pointless. That's a bit too defeatist for me. I think it's actually a matter of picking our battles. Obviously, I appreciate that's hard online because we have no idea who we're dealing with so developing the ability to break off as soon as it becomes obvious you're dealing with people fitting the demographic of ignorant, stupid, crazy or evil is beneficial. Though challenging when caught up by the heat of argument but if we fall into that frame of mind we're already no use to our cause as our judgment and clarity of mind is compromised to some extent.

So yeah, pick your battles, don't argue with your heart and breakaway from any debate that isn't mutually aimed toward reaching truth (rather than aimed at winning the argument for the sake of it regardless of whether one is correct or not).

Is that really haughty? Feela a bit haughty. Think I have a tendency come of a bit preachy. My sincere apology!

I don't think that came across as preachy at all. What you're saying is right, and I will admit to being at a point where I feel defeated. It's just at some point you're not just naive or ignorant, but actively malicious, spreading lies and misinformation to cause further suffering to suicidal people. It's like being expected to thank the person assaulting you with a baseball bat.

That's probably a shitty analogy and I apologize if I'm not making much sense right now. Going through a lot of emotions right now, partially because of these people.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit here. I don't think it is the pro-lifers intent to make anyone suffer, at least not most of them. They don't want you to suffer. They want you to live. They don't, or can't, equate that your living = suffering (for you). Everyone sees things through their own lenses. I highly doubt they're sadists, which is what they'd have to be, to intentionally want to inflict suffering on others. I understand that the pro-lifers are misguided in our eyes. I get that.

Some of them are parents that have lost children to suicide, and they only seek to dampen their own pain by "helping" in the only way they know how, to not have another parent go through the same daily torment they do, caused by the loss of their child. It's their way of coping. It's their way of making sure their child did not die in vain. It gives their life some meaning after so much has been taken away.

Some have had siblings die from suicide. Or friends.

Some seek to stop suicide based on their religious beliefs. For some reason, this is the way they chose to make a difference in the world.

If any one of them were telling me something I did not want to hear, I'd immediately tell them that I was ignoring them from that point on by responding with the word IGNORE in capital letters. Then I would do that. They need validation for their arguments. Don't give it to them. IGNORE them.

 

[DynamicDepression]

If any one of them were telling me something I did not want to hear, I'd immediately tell them that I was ignoring them from that point on by responding with the word IGNORE in capital letters. Then I would do that. They need validation for their arguments. Don't give it to them. IGNORE them.

That's the thing though, isn't it? You can't ignore them because they sure as hell don't ignore you. Suicidal people aren't just let be but are imprisoned against their will and have their basic human rights violated. Prisoners patients in mental facilities have fewer rights than prison inmates (not that they don't deserve their rights, but that's a separate while important discussion to be had).

 

[locked*n*loaded]

That's the thing though, isn't it? You can't ignore them because they sure as hell don't ignore you. Suicidal people aren't just let be but are imprisoned against their will and have their basic human rights violated. Prisoners patients in mental facilities have fewer rights than prison inmates (not that they don't deserve their rights, but that's a separate while important discussion to be had).

I was only talking about pro-lifers conversing with you on a forum. You're right. If you try and ctb, and fail, there are going to be some repercussions. If you try and ctb, don't fail. Perhaps, don't talk about it openly, if you really don't want help. A lot of people who do talk about their suicidal tendencies are reaching out for help. I tell no one about my plans to ctb, except for those on SaSu.

 

[The Abyss]

The majority of ppl only see life through the lens of their own perspective & for them it's going fine so therefore that's their basis for everything. They can't understand your perspective as they've never been there & likely never will.

Humans have this issue where they believe what they see & not what they don't.

A wheelchair user is allowed concessions & treated differently yet that person besides the lack of leg usage could be happy & doesn't want hand outs while someone with mental health issues "looks fine" & is deemed to be making excuses denied any help.

An attractive person has the halo effect applied & considered morally good; they're a serial killer while an ugly person is "creepy" & the prime suspect if a kid goes missing in a small community thanks to the horns effect.

 

[Shu]

I hate when people say they are born again because many aren't. Very few "Christians" have been "born again" very very very few.

Esoteric Christianity 06 Being Born Again

Free online courses about alchemy, astral projection, astrology, Christianity, consciousness, dharma, dreams, gnosis, Hebrew, Kabbalah, meditation, sacred sex, Tarot,

glorian.org

 

[WhatPowerIs]

Worst thing about debate is that neither party really comes out of it learning anything new, besides added contempt for their opponent. Very rarely do they come out of it with their mind changed.

 

[foreverfalling]

People are selfish and see things from their own perspective. They will do whatever will benefit them. For us it's leaving this place and ending our own suffering. For them, it's keeping us around so they can feel good about themselves and to make sure there's still someone else at the bottom of the food chain, lest they themselves suffer. We all ultimately have the same motivations.