Crisis line: to call or not to call

[Deleted member 1768]

Our safeguarding policy

We take your confidentiality very seriously, and in some situations we may tell someone that you've got in touch with us. Read more.

www.samaritans.org

 

[Nem]

Heard bad things about them, glad to see you're still alive poof
Peace/hugs

 

[Stan]

Not call now.

Girl, 16, killed herself after ChildLine leaked private conversations to cops

The teen told her mum she had been "betrayed" by the charity

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[LonelyLight]

I've never been brave enough to call one

 

[Meretlein]

Just act like you're just depressed if you call. Don't mention harming yourself in any way.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Heard bad things about them, glad to see you're still alive poof
Peace/hugs

Thanks Nem. Are you sleeping better?

 

[Nem]

Thanks Nem. Are you sleeping better?

Not too much better, still getting around three hours
Peace/hugs

 

[MeltingHeart]

useless. guess it ok if u just want to vent or get things off yr chest...other than that...

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Not too much better, still getting around three hours
Peace/hugs

Geez Nem. Can you afford claritin and gravol?

 

[MeltingHeart]

I dont blame the chaity though- Is this meant to suggst they were responible? What if she had told them she was v.suicidal & then as she did cut off the call suddenly- being a teenage girl- what would have been the 'better' reaction - imagine the backlash is the same thing had happened and they didnt do anything- or is are people suggesting that had she called them, told them she was suicidal...suddenly cut off the call...and then nothing has been reported, no police called etc...that she would have still been alive? I cant see what the is implied if this article, that the help line person should have done nothing purely to protect her confidentiality? What would have been the repercussions if they had done nothing and she had killed herself just after cutting the call short?!

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Good questions Heart. At least people can understand the difficulty faced by crisis workers, and it is, I hope, fair warning to those who would call them for help.

 

[WhiteDespair]

1. Don't live in UK
2. Get behind 7 UK proxies
3. Call
4. "Accidentally" mention random UK address
5. "Accidentally" mention that you think you're about to CtB
6. Waste UK police resources
7. ????
8. Profit!

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

I will never call a crisis line. I want to CTB … not to be prevented from it. I would not recommend anyone serious about CTB to call.
If someone wants help... that is different.

 

[Nem]

Geez Nem. Can you afford claritin and gravol?

Even better, I figured SN will help me sleep more solidly
Peace/hugs

 

[GreyMonkey]

Crisis lines are only useful for immediate crisis of you want to be heard and talked down.

If issues are long standing then there isn't much benefit to calling as at best you might get a moment of respite/relief yet the shit of life will all still be there.

 

[MeltingHeart]

1. Don't live in UK
2. Get behind 7 UK proxies
3. Call
4. "Accidentally" mention random UK address
5. "Accidentally" mention that you think you're about to CtB
6. Waste UK police resources
7. ????
8. Profit!

I have no idea what this all means! It must be above my realm of understanding :/

 

[Stan]

I dont blame the chaity though- Is this meant to suggst they were responible? What if she had told them she was v.suicidal & then as she did cut off the call suddenly- being a teenage girl- what would have been the 'better' reaction - imagine the backlash is the same thing had happened and they didnt do anything- or is are people suggesting that had she called them, told them she was suicidal...suddenly cut off the call...and then nothing has been reported, no police called etc...that she would have still been alive? I cant see what the is implied if this article, that the help line person should have done nothing purely to protect her confidentiality? What would have been the repercussions if they had done nothing and she had killed herself just after cutting the call short?!

I think if it was stated up front and the caller knew she was not able to vent with the helpline as they would be able to vent here, it may have been a different story. Imagine if that girl was just in a crisis for that period of time and had calmed down because talking helped. Then a policeman turns up at the door. That may have pushed her back to crisis point and obviously beyond. not saying that is what happened, but if that did happen, what a terrible thing.

You had your SN taken. Not exactly a comparison, but we all know you did not feel happy with that intervention. This girl received a big intervention. You are at a dark place in your life and now the police are at your door and feel completely betrayed. Her words, not mine.

 

[Whitewash11235814]

The problem is the lying. Some people don't realize this, especially the professionals it seems, but a lot if not most suicidal people dealt with their share of dishonesty and BS from people. When you tell someone you won't tell anyone, keep your word. Who likes being stuffed in a car w/ handcuffs like you're some type of felon or madcap? Nobody. Who likes to have their trust betrayed and their personal details spread ? Nobody. This just creates MORE heartache, a little 3 day hold in a hospital won't do a thing to help.


Yes, they're responsible in my eyes. It seems like tunnel vision exists both ways.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I think if it was stated up front and the caller knew she was not able to vent with the helpline as they would be able to vent here, it may have been a different story. Imagine if that girl was just in a crisis for that period of time and had calmed down because talking helped. Then a policeman turns up at the door. That may have pushed her back to crisis point and obviously beyond. not saying that is what happened, but if that did happen, what a terrible thing.

You had your SN taken. Not exactly a comparison, but we all know you did not feel happy with that intervention. This girl received a big intervention. You are at a dark place in your life and now the police are at your door and feel completely betrayed. Her words, not mine.

Yeah that's true- betrayal of trust feels horrible! I just wonder if the sudden cutting off of the call had a factor & what she had said just before cutting off said call- would be difficult to assess without reading a transcript of the phone call. But I can see the drama of police coming around and all that could escalate your feelings for sure. But equally can see the tricky position of the help line person also in some ways. It happened to me- when my doctor (Via a call through a therapist) called the ambulance when they were v.concerned...obviously it stopped me at the time...but if it hadn't ...they may have had to deal with the consequences if I had succeeded on that day- as they were the last two people I spoke to . Also my story isn't a fair comparison - I was stupid to get caught- I wasn't telling people I wanted to ctb - then taking it/ intervention didn't upset me due to betrayal of trust so that I want to ctb more - it's just stopped me from being able to do it.that why I am am annoyed - so it's quite different.

 

[sleepy dog]

The crisis line employees are LOOKING for a reason to send somebody to your address. They will talk callers into saying something, without the caller realizing it, that gives them a reason to send "help". They really just want to take somebody into custody, that is all.

I don't know about other places. In my state in the USA, there is no liability for hospital employees, psychiatrists, clinic employees. They can release a person that commits suicide an hour later and they can't be held responsible. The law says they can't be. But the assholes behave as though they are liable. They either don't know the law, or they just want to lock a person up just because they want to.

 

[MeltingHeart]

The problem is the lying. Some people don't realize this, especially the professionals it seems, but a lot if not most suicidal people dealt with their share of dishonesty and BS from people. When you tell someone you won't tell anyone, keep your word. Who likes being stuffed in a car w/ handcuffs like you're some type of felon or madcap? Nobody. Who likes to have their trust betrayed and their personal details spread ? Nobody. This just creates MORE heartache, a little 3 day hold in a hospital won't do a thing to help.


Yes, they're responsible in my eyes. It seems like tunnel vision exists both ways.

I agree that most certainly people should be able to express negative/ suicidal thoughts to a doc/ therapist/ family member/ help line -and not just be locked up straight away! That would be ridiculous. But what is the answer then or better alternative?..if someone seems incredible desperate, distraught in a very extreme way & does say they have a plan- like for example they call up and say "I feel so bad - I just feel like I want to hang myself- I don't know what else to do... I've got a rope in my hand right now'...and then puts the phone down...what should the caller do in those cases...nothing? Just to protect confidently ....obvs that's just one example .... but to indicate that I can see the dilemma they might have to face ....

The crisis line employees are LOOKING for a reason to send somebody to your address. They will talk callers into saying something, without the caller realizing it, that gives them a reason to send "help". They really just want to take somebody into custody, that is all.

Do u really think that is what the majority want? That feels overly cynical somehow - I am sure there are some that for sure want that to happen- but a lot of them are volunteers & I do still think that many do just wanna be there for someone that is in an immediate crisis and just really wants to talk for a bit. It wouldn't help someone like me...as I am not in an immediate crisis-but I still maintain a little faith that there might help some people (whilst also having an understanding the metal health system as a whole needs reforming/ more funding in order to help people before they get to the point of having to call up crisis lines.

 

[sleepy dog]

This happened about 3 months ago. I called my clinic to talk to my case manager. She wasn't there. I was calm and just wanted to talk about a problem she knew I had been having. They put me thru to crisis line. I am talking to this guy calmly for maybe 20 minutes about my problem. In that time he asked me where I was at. Later he asked me is this phone number you're using where you are at. We are trying to come up with possible solutions. It seems like he is trying to be helpful. Suddenly he suggests I go to some place 35 miles away for a "rest" for the weekend. I could tell what he was doing. I said no and asked him why he was trying to lock me up. He said he wasn't trying to do that. Another 5 minutes later he asks "So why do you want to hurt yourself." I said "What? I didn't say I wanted to hurt myself." He was speaking politely, seemed to want to find a solution to the specific problem that I could try on my own. But he also tried very hard to lock me up. You simply can't trust those people.

 

[Whitewash11235814]

I agree that most certainly people should be able to express negative/ suicidal thoughts to a doc/ therapist/ family member/ help line -and not just be locked up straight away! That would be ridiculous. But what is the answer then or better alternative?..if someone seems incredible desperate, distraught in a very extreme way & does say they have a plan- like for example they call up and say "I feel so bad - I just feel like I want to hang myself- I don't know what else to do... I've got a rope in my hand right now'...and then puts the phone down...what should the caller do in those cases...nothing? Just to protect confidently ....obvs that's just one example .... but to indicate that I can see the dilemma they might have to face ....

Do u really think that is what the majority want? That feels overly cynical somehow - I am sure there are some that for sure want that to happen- but a lot of them are volunteers & I do still think that many do just wanna be there for someone that is in an immediate crisis and just really wants to talk for a bit. It wouldn't help someone like me...as I am not in an immediate crisis-but I still maintain a little faith that they might help some people (whilst also having an understanding the metal health system as a whole needs reforming/ more funding in order to help people before they get to the point of having to call up crisis lines.

See, I'd probably use it to my advantage. I'd act and talk to them as if I was a friend that can be counted on, and I may even mention that I'm unlike those who say that they respect confidentiality but stab you in the back as you soon as you hint at that word. It gives them a certain air of superficiality that is hard to swallow and relate to. In the end, its harder to relate to somebody w/ one foot in the door and the other out. So, I'd try to use their predicament to strengthen the connection rather than betray it.

You know, many people come here because most people can't understand....Because most people flap their wings and take drastic action if you utter anything concerning ctb.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

I agree that most certainly people should be able to express negative/ suicidal thoughts to a doc/ therapist/ family member/ help line -and not just be locked up straight away! That would be ridiculous. But what is the answer then or better alternative?..if someone seems incredible desperate, distraught in a very extreme way & does say they have a plan- like for example they call up and say "I feel so bad - I just feel like I want to hang myself- I don't know what else to do... I've got a rope in my hand right now'...and then puts the phone down...what should the caller do in those cases...nothing? Just to protect confidently ....obvs that's just one example .... but to indicate that I can see the dilemma they might have to face ....

Do u really think that is what the majority want? That feels overly cynical somehow - I am sure there are some that for sure want that to happen- but a lot of them are volunteers & I do still think that many do just wanna be there for someone that is in an immediate crisis and just really wants to talk for a bit. It wouldn't help someone like me...as I am not in an immediate crisis-but I still maintain a little faith that there might help some people (whilst also having an understanding the metal health system as a whole needs reforming/ more funding in order to help people before they get to the point of having to call up crisis lines.

Agreed Wash. Trust is paramount in any relationship. How much more-so when your life is at stake. But given the poor level of training, and the laws re. mental health I do not see any way for them/us to get around it. History is handy...grin. Let the authorities think whatever they like. I have called several times in the last year to medical offices and mention suicide. Police have been called each time, as I knew they would. Last time I informed them that I had multiple means to end my life at home and when I was ready I would do it. They tracked me to the the bank, I had bills to pay, and after a nice little conversation I said I had to pick up groceries on the way home, thanked them for their concern, had a mutual giggle and left. They no longer take 'suicide' seriously with me...lol. I should tell you at this point that I am not depressed, and fooling others' is not hard when you do not have a mental health issue. Still...it works...history can be a wonderful tool, both when overdosing, "gee, I forgot I took them again...flip", and to alleviate the concerns of authorities. What can I say it works.

 

[MeltingHeart]

This happened about 3 months ago. I called my clinic to talk to my case manager. She wasn't there. I was calm and just wanted to talk about a problem she knew I had been having. They put me thru to crisis line. I am talking to this guy calmly for maybe 20 minutes about my problem. In that time he asked me where I was at. Later he asked me is this phone number you're using where you are at. We are trying to come up with possible solutions. It seems like he is trying to be helpful. Suddenly he suggests I go to some place 35 miles away for a "rest" for the weekend. I could tell what he was doing. I said no and asked him why he was trying to lock me up. He said he wasn't trying to do that. Another 5 minutes later he asks "So why do you want to hurt yourself." I said "What? I didn't say I wanted to hurt myself." He was speaking politely, seemed to want to find a solution to the specific problem that I could try on my own. But he also tried very hard to lock me up. You simply can't trust those people.

hmmm that person certainly seems not very good at their job, very inept even and some manipulative-not cool. I am sure they are not all like that though-there must be atleast a few that can listen in the right way- my situation was different in that when I called i was clearly in a very high state of despair- and v.v.suicidal-not just wanting to talk through an immediate problem- they didnt call the police or anything-but basically said there wasnt really anything they could do-which I completely agreed with there wasnt- the only reason i am still here- is because i 'stopped' myself halfway through the act-but the phone call had no effect on my actions either way.

 

[CrushedHopes]

Don't call crisis lines. Just stick with SS. They're obsolete and can't do jack to help you.

 

[MeltingHeart]

See, I'd probably use it to my advantage. I'd act and talk to them as if I was a friend that can be counted on, and I may even mention that I'm unlike those who say that they respect confidentiality but stab you in the back as you soon as you hint at that word. It gives them a certain air of superficiality that is hard to swallow and relate to. In the end, its harder to relate to somebody w/ one foot in the door and the other out. So, I'd try to use their predicament to strengthen the connection rather than betray it.

You know, many people come here because most people can't understand....Because most people flap their wings and take drastic action if you utter anything concerning ctb.

I dont really understand what you are saying at all-not because I think you are wrong and I am right- must just be v.different wave lengths or way of looking at things- I guess i was just imagining if i volunteered for a line and was more than happy to talk things through and just be an impatial listener for hours on end and keep in private- and then if i had a 16yr old girl that said she 'I really really feels like killing myself' & then i might ask- 'do you have the means to do that?' and she says 'yes i do' (obvs i dont know that this happended in this case but hypothetically speaking)- And then not long after she suddenly puts the phone down- I guess I cant help but think, what would I do? call back? what if she doesnt answer? do nothing?

Don't call crisis lines. Just stick with SS. They're obsolete and can't do jack to help you.

they may be helpful to SOME people, not all for sure and I can see the flaws in the services-but i still think that some people might find them beneficial. yes they wont tell you how to die using SN or give you partial hanging tips like on here-but believe it or not some people are in distress, v.lonely, want to talk-but havent reached the same determination to ctb yet. If some one 100% wants to kill themselves-with no doubt at all in their minds-then yes of course, calling a crisis line is clearly gonna be a waste of time.

 

[blue]

just saying you are experiencing suicidal thoughts is not reason enough to hospitalize someone- but if that person express a plan and indicate a desire to carry it out, one should expect to be hospitalized.

 

[Whitewash11235814]

I dont really understand what you are saying at all-not because I think you are wrong and I am right- must just be v.different wave lengths or way of looking at things- I guess i was just imagining if i volunteered for a line and was more than happy to talk things through and just be an impatial listener for hours on end and keep in private- and then if i had a 16yr old girl that said she 'I really really feels like killing myself' & then i might ask- 'do you have the means to do that?' and she says 'yes i do' (obvs i dont know that this happended in this case but hypothetically speaking)- And then not long after she suddenly puts the phone down- I guess I cant help but think, what would I do? call back? what if she doesnt answer? do nothing?

Yeah, it's not about being right or wrong. We are just expressing our opinions and looking at different view points.

I wouldn't call cops if I promised confidentiality. I know the system is not as effective as one would like to think it is. I know that calling cops will do little to nothing to help. I'll say it may just may help a person acting out of impulse, but I've been in and out of hospitals enough times to know it does more bad than good for those with clinical depression. I hope you won't call cops on us, hehe xD jk jk jk

 

[MeltingHeart]

Agreed Wash. Trust is paramount in any relationship. How much more-so when your life is at stake. But given the poor level of training, and the laws re. mental health I do not see any way for them/us to get around it. History is handy...grin. Let the authorities think whatever they like. I t

what do you suggest is a better reaction if someone calls up a crisisl line- says they really feel like killing themselves, they cant see a way out, they just want to die etc. and then say for example, before you even have a chance to talk through their specific problem, they suddenly put the phone down?- the fact that they have called up in the first place is surely a sign they want intervention, even on a subconscious level....

Yeah, it's not about being right or wrong. We are just expressing our opinions and looking at different view points.

I wouldn't call cops if I promised confidentiality. I know the system is not as effective as one would like to think it is. I know that calling cops will do little to nothing to help. I'll say it may just may help a person acting out of impulse, but I've been in and out of hospitals enough times to know it does more bad than good for those with clinical depression. I hope you won't call cops on us, hehe xD jk jk jk

thats fair enough- yeah I can see how for long term things it's useless-but i guess there are occasions when it may have helped people that are just in an immediate/short term/ temp crisis & i still maintain I can see the ethical dilemma a volunteer on a line could be faced with if they think someone will be attempting to ctb immediately after putting the phone down/ cutting a call short.