Discussion counter petition?

[Life_and_Death]

for those that dont have access i will repost this.

Cyber-Mob Attacks (aka Dogpiling)​

Definition: When a large group of abusers collectively attacks a target through a barrage of threats, slurs, insults, and other abusive tactics.

Cyberstalking​

Definition: In a legal context, "cyberstalking" is the prolonged and repeated use of abusive behaviors online (a "course of conduct") intended "to kill, injure, harass, intimidate, or place under surveillance with intent to kill, injure, harass, or intimidate" a target

Hacking​

Definition: The unauthorized intrusion into a device or network, hacking is often carried out with the intention to attack, harm, or incriminate another individual by stealing their data, violating their privacy, or infecting their devices with viruses. When hacking is used to perform illegal activities or intimidate a target, it is a cybercrime.
(to clarify im not 100% sure on this one as i assume they didnt "hack" in but they did find their way into a secure space with the intent to... so i think it counts)

this is what the ones running that petition fall under. what they are doing IS wrong and all the while they are being hypocritical. i understand some if not a lot of you would rather not make things worse however i personally feel that if we never stand up for ourselves they will never stop. if we never show people the truth they will keep spreading lies and we have to do something, and i dont like the idea of just sitting here. they have to be stopped. they are spreading lies, twisting words, anything to make themselves look good and those that dont understand are following out of ignorance. people should hear both sides of the story and see everything to make their own decision. a onesided twisted story will always win, thats why they twisted it. they are making us out to be the enemies when we are also the ones they are trying to "protect". "think of the daughters and sons that are suffering" like it or not WE ARE THOSE DAUGHTERS AND SONS. WE ARE SUFFERING. and like it or not you are only making it worse. we all have feelings, we all have hearts and we all have voices, i think its time we use them. i doubt they stop until we do, thats how it went for everything else. Viola Desmond, George Cecil Ives and so many others for so many different reason, all looking for the same thing, acceptance and to be heard.

I WILL NOT BE SILENCED!!!!
this isnt a sanctioned suicide thing, this is just a suicide thing. this is to help EVERYONE. we should be able to talk about anything that is bothering us without being looked down upon, we shouldnt need a special place, and even more so we shouldnt need to hide it just because we are being harassed. i understand the troubles getting into assisted suicide and for the most part i agree with it, but when someone is seriously at the end of the line, like myself who cant take any medication due to sensitivity, had therapy only make things worse and was born this way, or whos just tried everything they could and just cant anymore, we should be allowed to, we should have access. and the steps before that, we should be able to talk to people and get actual help, not pushed off to the side until we cant anymore. we should be listened to. they say a relationship is 50/50 and i believe thats wrong, EVERY interaction is 50/50 and they arent giving their 50%.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

I admire your conviction and you lay out a good case. However, I think most people on our side are reluctant to get involved due to the stigma attached. These petitions are also a joke and nothing ever comes of them.

 

[Ghost2211]

Yeah... petitions tend to need your real name. I don't think it works with our screen names. That would be feeding ourselves to them.

 

[Life_and_Death]

I think most people on our side are reluctant to get involved due to the stigma attached.

its exactly like i pointed out though. someone needs to change that. if someone didnt say slavery was wrong and stand up for them then we'd still be doing it. its the same in this case. if people dont even have a chance to understand because they are being fed lies then we will always be silenced. we have to stand up if we want to be heard

 

[Brick In The Wall]

its exactly like i pointed out though. someone needs to change that. if someone didnt say slavery was wrong and stand up for them then we'd still be doing it. its the same in this case. if people dont even have a chance to understand because they are being fed lies then we will always be silenced. we have to stand up if we want to be heard

I'm not saying you're wrong. There are advocacy groups out there that fight for euthanasia rights. But the world just isn't ready for it right now.

 

[Life_and_Death]

I'm not saying you're wrong. There are advocacy groups out there that fight for euthanasia rights. But the world just isn't ready for it right now.

im just talking about being heard in general. that would be another step but like i also said for the most part i agree. i understand thats a slippery slope as to how you can tell a low time vs defeated.

 

[foxdie]

I feel your anger about this and it's upsetting to me too. I think we should just ignore them because they are approaching us in bad faith from the jump. They can twist our words on Twitter but most of the forum is public. Any clear minded individual who approaches us in good faith will see that when they read 99% of the posts here. Also their campaign is doomed to fail for numerous reasons, not the least of which Alphabet Inc and Facebook wouldn't want them to succeed. We don't have to get in the mud with them if we don't want. They weaponize their grief against the suicidal, it's pretty fucked up. If you receive any legitimate harrassment from them, I wouldn't say don't fight them in any legal way you feel comfortable with however.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

im just talking about being heard in general. that would be another step but like i also said for the most part i agree. i understand thats a slippery slope as to how you can tell a low time vs defeated.

You're being heard right now though. This place is on the forefront of the pro choice ideology. This place is a beacon no doubt.

I've also helped bump your thread to make sure you're heard even more

 

[Ghost2211]

I think we should let the staff handle them.

 

[Life_and_Death]

You're being heard right now though. This place is on the forefront of the pro choice ideology. This place is a beacon no doubt.

I've also helped bump your thread to make sure you're heard even more

yeah but its like ive said in comments ive made, although people may come here to read on their own not all will and they wont even dare screenshot my posts, the people that need to know the truth never will

I think we should let the staff handle them.

this isnt a sanctioned suicide thing, this is just a suicide thing. this is to help EVERYONE.

the way i see it is you can have a few staff members or you can have a whole "army" (no prolifers im not calling us an army im referring to the size difference) have you ever seen horton hears a who? yes its a childs movie but it has truth. 1 who couldnt be heard, but a lot of whos that worked together could be.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

@Life_and_Death again I do admire your conviction. I'm sure if you started something you could garner some support. Maybe even collaborate with other groups doing the same.

There's nothing wrong with fighting for what you believe in. Just know that this is the epitome of an "uphill battle."

 

[Life_and_Death]

@Life_and_Death again I do admire your conviction. I'm sure if you started something you could garner some support. Maybe even collaborate with other groups doing the same.

There's nothing wrong with fighting for what you believe in. Just know that this is the epitome of an "uphill battle."

of course. of course i also believe in standing up for what i believe is right, uphill battle or not ever since i slapped my mother across the face ive refused to be silenced, suicide or not, ill die knowing ive done something good.

the problem is i dont know how to start something like that

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I admire your conviction, I also hear your passion.
The broader context is not prepared for that point of view, I think.
It's admirable that you may be willing to stick your head above the parapet to fight for what you believe in, but many aren't and for good reason. Anyone doing that will be more in the firing line, especially seeing as it wouldn't be anonymous.
For many it's the anonymity that allows them to speak freely in a society that supresses that view, without they are even more vulnerable.
But I do see what you mean about trying to change opinions and stand up for it and I feel a little conflicted. I still think a pro choice viewpoint will be vilified for the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately, yes, uphill battle.
Also, from a practical point of view, any social media input that stands outside the consensus, isn't anonymous and is also reached by enough people, would be censored and shut down.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

of course. of course i also believe in standing up for what i believe is right, uphill battle or not ever since i slapped my mother across the face ive refused to be silenced, suicide or not, ill die knowing ive done something good.

the problem is i dont know how to start something like that

You start like all the others do. By making social media pages and or webpages/blogs. Campaigning, networking, and targeted advertising. I'm sure there's a playbook on the web somewhere for how it's done.

If you do decide to go this route I'd start your own "brand" though. I wouldn't use the SS title or platform without express permission.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

If you do decide to go this route I'd start your own "brand" though. I wouldn't use the SS title or platform without express permission

That I agree with for sure.

 

[sadworld]

Just ignore them please, it's useless. They can't do shit about us. The cleverer give in.

 

[Life_and_Death]

You start like all the others do. By making social media pages and or webpages/blogs. Campaigning, networking, and targeted advertising. I'm sure there's a playbook on the web somewhere for how it's done.

If you do decide to go this route I'd start your own "brand" though. I wouldn't use the SS title or platform without express permission.

what, no of course i wouldnt.

@Underscore correct me if im wrong but it seems you are referring to accepting suicide, although yes thats what im talking about im more talking about the ability to be able to talk to people beforehand, before you get to the point of suicide, i see thread after thread post after post of people saying they have no one, if there was someone, it wouldnt have to be this way. im just asking for them to be someone, just listen like we do here. "how are you" "good" shouldnt have to be a generalized answer. im not even sure its an answer anymore. even amongst "normies" it seems more of a robotic answer, and thats just not right to me

 

[Deleted member 1465]

what, no of course i wouldnt.

@Underscore correct me if im wrong but it seems you are referring to accepting suicide, although yes thats what im talking about im more talking about the ability to be able to talk to people beforehand, before you get to the point of suicide, i see thread after thread post after post of people saying they have no one, if there was someone, it wouldnt have to be this way. im just asking for them to be someone, just listen like we do here. "how are you" "good" shouldnt have to be a generalized answer. im not even sure its an answer anymore. even amongst "normies" it seems more of a robotic answer, and thats just not right to me

Do you mean somewhere that excludes the actual practical details that are seen by some as 'assisting?' More like a place to openly discus the issues involved without 'methods?'

 

[elfgyoza]

Just ignore them please, it's useless. They can't do shit about us. The cleverer give in.

I'd love to just ignore them, but I am getting a little worried with what's happened in the UK recently. After one particular death, a family member has been campaigning to ban the forum. They've managed to get their own MP to put forward a motion that has the support of many other MP's already, and they've also further restricted SN.
The campaign in the US is largely pointless, but I can definitely see the UK government doing something as they're not exactly shy of 'suppressing' freedom of speech. It'd be easily bypassed with a VPN but we shouldn't have to do that.
I'd hate to willingly let this happen to future members, knowing I probably played some part in raising the profile of SS and SN. But then I also have no idea what I would do, and if I even have the energy to

 

[Life_and_Death]

Do you mean somewhere that excludes the actual practical details that are seen by some as 'assisting?' More like a place to openly discus the issues involved without 'methods?'

yes....

idk...i just feel that you should be able to say to your friends "sorry im not having a good day" and then they hug you and listen to what you have to say. actually be there for people that are suicidal instead of blaming the ones that are their for them. we're here in their final moments, listening to what they have to say, when if people listened before it got to this point, they wouldnt have to be in their final moments. i honestly believe (even in myself) if helped early on then its not so bad, even better if its not even started. its like an infection, if you get it straight away then youll be fine but if you wait then you could lose a limb or your life and it just didnt have to be if people would listen

I'd love to just ignore them, but I am getting a little worried with what's happened in the UK recently. After one particular death, a family member has been campaigning to ban the forum. They've managed to get their own MP to put forward a motion that has the support of many other MP's already, and they've also further restricted SN.
The campaign in the US is largely pointless, but I can definitely see the UK government doing something as they're not exactly shy of 'suppressing' freedom of speech. It'd be easily bypassed with a VPN but we shouldn't have to do that.
I'd hate to willingly let this happen to future members, knowing I probably played some part in raising the profile of SS and SN. But then I also have no idea what I would do, and if I even have the energy to

this is why someone needs to stand up and show them the other side of the coin, so there can be an understanding. if only one story is told, then thats all that will ever be seen and nothing will change

 

[sadworld]

There is no immediate threat for the forum

 

[Life_and_Death]

There is no immediate threat for the forum

im not talking about the forum, im talking about the freedom of speech for all depressed people in general. no not methods, but if youre having a bad day you shouldnt be scared to talk to your friend because you dont want to be judged

more thoughts: they wouldnt have to restrict methods if they would just talked to us and we felt loved and cared for instead of neglected and ignored

 

[sadworld]

I'm sorry

 

[Life_and_Death]

I'm sorry

for what if i may ask?

 

[sadworld]

for what if i may ask?

Nothing really My brain is just doing stupid shit right now, I shouldn't post but I like you

 

[Deleted member 1465]

yes....

idk...i just feel that you should be able to say to your friends "sorry im not having a good day" and then they hug you and listen to what you have to say. actually be there for people that are suicidal instead of blaming the ones that are their for them. we're here in their final moments, listening to what they have to say, when if people listened before it got to this point, they wouldnt have to be in their final moments. i honestly believe (even in myself) if helped early on then its not so bad, even better if its not even started. its like an infection, if you get it straight away then youll be fine but if you wait then you could lose a limb or your life and it just didnt have to be if people would listen

Then agree with you.

However, I'm a bit biased due to my experience.
I came here to die and all I cared about was methods, not friends. That changed as I shared stuff and learned about other people, basically because I'm not made of stone. It helped me survive when I didn't believe I could.
Now I don't use the main forums as there is little I need there. I used to hang out to offer support, but after a couple of major losses I couldn't handle that anymore.
So now, I just use the other bits, stick around for friends and to share stuff...
So from a personal point of view, a forum like that would actually suit my own needs better than this place. It would be safer and offer me, or people like me (yeah, good luck finding those but you know what I mean) something valuable.

There are things out there, but the rules are too restrictive, like: no swearing, no talk of alcohol or drugs, no mention of suicide. What I think you might be suggesting (and you will ofc correct me if I'm wrong) is a place where you can discuss all the stuff we do here, but without specific methods, goodbye threads, partners etc. To be realistic and grown up about it, but have certain boundaries to protect the site and avoid being targeted.

Is that the sort of thing you mean?

 

[Life_and_Death]

Nothing really My brain is just doing stupid shit right now, I shouldn't post but I like you

aww its ok, i like getting different views on it so i can rethink things or come up with answers to things i havent thought of yet. its always good to get more then one brain working on things as long as everyone can work together and everyone engaged here seems to be doing ok so i think its awesome :)
i like you too btw, you seem really nice

 

[sadworld]

i like you too btw, you seem really nice

Thank you, that's all I needed to hear I should head to bed soon... have fun discussing stuff

 

[Life_and_Death]

Then agree with you.

However, I'm a bit biased due to my experience.
I came here to die and all I cared about was methods, not friends. That changed as I shared stuff and learned about other people, basically because I'm not made of stone. It helped me survive when I didn't believe I could.
Now I don't use the main forums as there is little I need there. I used to hang out to offer support, but after a couple of major losses I couldn't handle that anymore.
So now, I just use the other bits, stick around for friends and to share stuff...
So from a personal point of view, a forum like that would actually suit my own needs better than this place. It would be safer and offer me, or people like me (yeah, good luck finding those but you know what I mean) something valuable.

There are things out there, but the rules are too restrictive, like: no swearing, no talk of alcohol or drugs, no mention of suicide. What I think you might be suggesting (and you will ofc correct me if I'm wrong) is a place where you can discuss all the stuff we do here, but without specific methods, goodbye threads, partners etc. To be realistic and grown up about it, but have certain boundaries to protect the site and avoid being targeted.

Is that the sort of thing you mean?

yes but no. lol. remove the internet from the equation, well a specified place on the internet for this. and obviously dont bombard places like a gaming forum that doesnt belong, but if theres a private chat on the gaming forum and you have a friend there (someone you deem friend friend) then you should be able to talk to them without thinking "oh they dont want to talk to me about that" if they really are your friend friend then they will. same irl, if youre at school/work where ever if you should have someone you can talk to

Thank you, that's all I needed to hear I should head to bed soon... have fun discussing stuff

i hope you sleep well. i should be off to bed in about 30mins myself

 

[Deleted member 1465]

yes but no. lol. remove the internet from the equation, well a specified place on the internet for this. and obviously dont bombard places like a gaming forum that doesnt belong, but if theres a private chat on the gaming forum and you have a friend there (someone you deem friend friend) then you should be able to talk to them without thinking "oh they dont want to talk to me about that" if they really are your friend friend then they will. same irl, if youre at school/work where ever if you should have someone you can talk to

i hope you sleep well. i should be off to bed in about 30mins myself

That's really tricky then IMO. People who are not suicidal DO NOT want to talk about it, even if they say they are okay to. It's a really tough thing to understand and if you mention it to someone they tend to end up in the oh shit I wish he hadn't mentioned that WTF do I say now? state. It's kind of natural really. I'd have been the same before it happened to me. You are right, we should be better and be able to discuss it, but I'm not sure how to make that happen.